AussieBob

Thanks mate - much appreciated - sounds like a great place.

Yep - the Thailand bureaucracy is extremely disorganised - across all services. Besides having confusing and conflicting Federal regulations, they also have the same between the Provinces. Not an easy place to live when it comes to dealing with all levels of the bureaucracy - but it makes up for it in many other ways. As I said before, there was talk that they were going to impose that private insurance requirement on all 'retirement extensions' and then across to all non-resident Visas. Covid stopped that discussion progressing, but I sure do hope that it does not become the situation long term. However, if it ever does, I think that your Thai coverage might be accepted by a local friendly IO as adequate - that is one of the advantages - local authorities have autonomy and are not tightly controlled by strictly enforced Federal requirements.

I hear you - the ones I have looked at are about half and half - Thais and Global. I think I must defer to your media experience, but you will agree that a tourist was arrested for posting a negative review on a hotel in tripadviser and facebook - and jailed for the weekend - and that a journalist was in serious trouble and had to leave the country for posting a story about a businessman that was found guilty of robbing workers. Thailand defamation laws are extreme - and they are often used by some Thai people and organisations to silence critics. With regards to insurance, I am more looking at an arrangement that covers a major incident that could cost millions of baht - like a car accident or heart attack/stroke that results in serious complications and expensive medical treatment. Yes I am aware you can talk to the insurance company before having a procedure - I know of several blokes who have had minor procedures done after contacting the insurance company and either fully or partially covered. I am also aware of a bloke that had a brain tumour and was denied coverage because his wife told a doctor that he had some headaches many years ago - they ruled pre-existing condition - even though he was never examined or diagnosed with the problem - he had to pay - recovered enough to come back to Australia. Not sure what you mean by NHS - we Aussies have Medicare - and all hospital treatments and aftercare is free - and most medications are either free (when over 65/70) or heavily discounted - the PBS scheme. But regarding the Thai system, I am not shaking the cage, I am happy to pay 50K a year to join it, but I know I do not qualify - wish I could. But regarding an Expat winning a court case against a Thai or Thai company - I will go with Tim at the Thaiger - he has experienced and seen enough - I would have a chickens teeth chance of winning. Pacific Cross is one of the good ones - I have checked out their prices and coverage before and one of my mates uses them. But like me he is worried about the costs over 20 years as he gets older. As per your link the Maxima Plus is 91K at 65 and the prices stop there. The last time I got their rates for each year from 65 upwards, it went up and up a lot each year - and if a recall it was over 300K per year when I hit 80. The way I see it, Pacific Cross is a good option up until I reach 70, but then it gets less cost effective, and at 75 it becomes way too much, and at 80 it will be unaffordable. I figure 5 early years of saving 100-200 a year in a fund (or some deal like @Derek Dangleberries is talking about ) and then topping that up each year as required, means that once I am 75 there will be enough for just about anything - and it is my money still. Plus we could take it home with us if we decided to come back to Aust again if/when China takes over and mandates 14 day reporting of all aliens and tattooed numbers on our foreheads 😅

Interesting thought. Like a 'pre-approved' loan or overdraft for 2 million baht secured by the Condo as collateral. But as you say - what if you die. And of course, where will you live if/when they repossess the Condo to pay the loan and interest and fees due. Interest rates are low in Thailand now - 1% (20K PA) - but what if they were 5% or more. But is it wise to 'play' with Thai banks - they are worse then the insurance companies IMO. I doubt they would give any Expat a loan anyway - it would have to be in the Thai wife's name etc. - but we all (should) know what can happen with those sorts of arrangements. Maybe a 'credit card' in my name though? I was forced to open a credit card account because when hiring a car in Thailand they will not accept cash (the big ones). I had to deposit 20K into a 'special' Thai bank account to then be able to have a credit card for 20K maximum amount so I could hire a car. But would I risk a loan on a condo with a Thai bank so I could have a credit card for the amount of the loan deposited in such an account - nuh. The biggest problem with being an Expat in Thailand, when things go poo poo, is that you have no/little legal rights. You are wasting your time and money trying to take a Thai insurance company or bank to court if something goes very wrong, or if they do the wrong thing. You 'publicise' anything about that matter and you will be sent home and blacklisted never to enter again. Being right aint got nothing to do with it in Thailand - even for Thais. I know that some 'expats clubs' have insurance policies than gain 'group' discounts, but I have also heard of how that can go very wrong over time and how some members have paid, but are not actually insured as much as they thought they were - with again very little legal redress available in Thailand. I would prefer to got it alone with all such serious issues in Thailand - only got myself to blame that way 😄

Further to that question - has anyone done any research into how to find and use a decent/quality 'ambulance' service in Thailand. I understand they are rubbish compared to genuine ambulances in the west, and they are unregulated, and they are like the tow-truck industry who focus on being first there and 'owning' the towing 'right' after a car accident. But has anyone gone into the processes and found out how to stop somchai (who watched a video) and his mate pornee (who sleep through the video) turning up and throwing you in the back of their pickup and taking you to the most expensive private hospital and earning a 500 baht 'finders fee' ?

Can you let us know whereabouts in Thailand you have found this Hospital. Any tips on how to select the 'right' Hospital and how to register as a patient.

Tommy you are indeed so helpful - some would say matriarchal. Thanks for that, but I will say that IMO the public health program at 50K a year is a better option by far. The public cover will not dramatically increase in premiums, and will provide free coverage for all medical services - no limits. I am very dubious about the Thai private health insurance industry, having heard many bad stories - and many good ones. The cheaper policies come with conditions like maximum 400K per event, and within that 400K are limits for each category of costs. Therefore to cover it all (which is what it is for really - a bad car accident or serious illness) it costs a bit more than 60K a year - and as you get older the premiums increase - dramatically after 70. I once did a cost calculation based on 3% annual increase (it will be more if I make a claim), and it totalled over 3 million baht by the time I was 85 (average 150K a year) Sure there are cheaper plans - but as I pointed out to one bloke - the plan he had for about 40K back then, only paid out 400K for any single event and 100K max for 'hospital costs'. That might be good for a busted leg or something, but what if he has a serious car accident. He was shocked (he never read the fine print) as his policy claimed '1 million' coverage. Mate I am pedantic (you might have noticed) and I read the fine print and I do the costs forecasting over 20 years. By the way, you know why there are never any negative stories published about Expats and their medical insurance problems and ripoffs - guaranteed deportation and/or annual extension refusal - the defamation laws in Thailand mean being correct is irrelevant - just ask that British journalist and that Tourist who slagged off on social media about that Hotel. When the Thai Govt mandated the very expensive health insurance for all new O-A Visas (Retirement from overseas), the big concern was that same coverage option was going to be applied to both existing Retirees in Thailand, and to all Marriage and Business etc long stay Visas, at their next annual extension application. The reason for the ridiculous fees was the inclusion of outpatient coverage - which they refused to drop. It is clear to me that some very Junta Govt 'influencer' Thais own insurance companies, and they wanted to make more money from 'rich' Expats. Covid crashed all that and I do believe there will be an announcement soon about the existing health insurance mandated for all new O-A applications (they might remove it). Govt control and regulation of the Thai health insurance industry, like many others, is very loose and disjointed and some would say corrupted. Even for Thais it can be a nightmare getting matters addressed, but for an alien who has all the legal rights of a tourist in Thailand, it is extremely unlikely to be resolved positively - like it would in our home countries. Therefore, I will be very cautious and distrusting if/when I organise health insurance next time we live there - and building up a pool of funds to use for annual extensions and for medical costs is definitely my preferred option (with a cheap basic coverage for the first few years).

Please provide a link to any Immigrant Visa for entry into Thailand. OK so you agree that. It may be semantics, but that is how the law works. But lets agree to disagree.

Yes, based on what @Yesitisdakid has advised. Full coverage in Govt Hospitals and paid Private Hospital if needed because Govt cannot provide. 48K per year is cheap compared to the private insurance policies I have been quoted. I am well over 60 so that is not an option the way he got it, but if it was made available to long stay Expats who had become Residents after 3 years, then I would definitely take it up.

May I ask how you were able to get that? I assume it was through employment for a long period? Or was it another way - marriage? - Thai wife in public service?

Did you not listen when I said that was the forst tiome I realised that (from the video) so I did some extensive research. 1. Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require 90 days reporting? 2. Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require applications to extend permission to stay beyond 12 months? 1. Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period of a Tourist Visa in Thailand is 90 days. 'Reporting' means automatic extension of the permission to stay under a non-immigrant Visa. Under the Thai Elite and such Visa programs, the 'reporting' is done automatically for the holder but the annual extensions require their Passports to be provided (and they do the annual extension process for them). 2. Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period for the 'validity' of a Tourist Visa is 12 months. If you are approved for a long term non-immigrant Visa you have 12 months to enter the Kingdom. Once you enter you must report every 90 days for permission to stay longer, up to a maximum of 12 months from the date of entry. To stay any longer you must apply for an annual extension of your permission to stay, which if approved, impose the same conditions for staying - 90 day reports for automatic extension of permission to stay. Australia has many Tourist Visas and many Immigrant Visas - they are each separate Laws (Enactments) under the Australian Immigration Act - one covers Tourists (all visitors) and the other is for Immigrants. Being a Tourist provides certain rights and conditions, but being an Immigrant provides far more rights and conditions and leads to Residency and Citizenship. Thailand only has Tourist Visas - it is the only Laws under the Thailand Immigration Act that allows for non-citizens to Visit or Stay in Thailand (all are Visitors or as per the act Aliens). All 'Visitors' to Thailand are legally Aliens - short term long term makes no difference. There are no Immigration Visas in Thailand under the Thailand Immigration Act. Zero. None. Nada. I cannot make it any plainer for you - and I aint gonna try anymore.

Rory is what we Aussies call a 'dingbat' - he really, really, seriously, needs a caddie to tell him what to do, but more importantly, what not to do. Unfortunately, because of his extraordinary talent Rory was taught that playing golf is all about hitting great shots and scoring low. That worked while he was younger, but it has not for almost 10 years now. What the picture doesn't tell was that at that point, Rory was 13 under par overall, and 5 under for the day - he ended up even for the day and is at 8 under overall - he not only lost many shots because of a couple of bad decisions on that hole - it broke his confidence and he limped home. Because he is so good, he genuinely thinks he can do anything - and the problem is that he can. But he lacks that 'filter' that tells him 'maybe not this time' and 'maybe not today'. He knows that he can shoot 62 on any course - but he lacks the 'filter' to realise that some days and sometimes, he needs to pull it back. As Jack said - It is not about having the lowest possible lowest score every day - it is about scoring less than all the other blokes over 4 days. Or as Greg said: You cant win it on day 1 or 2 - but you can lose it then. Harry - the best thing you can do for Rory is to resign. Rory just won the RBC Canadian without you mate - he doesnt 'need' you - he does need a professional caddie to 'manage' him when things go wrong - whether he likes it or not. Unfortunately, Rory is still basically a boy, and has not grown up and accepted his faults and limitations - the wife thinks he never will. Rory will every now and then show us just how good he is when he puts together 4 great rounds and wins. But I fear he will never become the golf player he could have been - meaning winning many events especially majors. Rory has been slagging Greg Norman lately saying he has won 21 PGA events - 1 more than Norman. Rory has won 33 professional events - Greg won 89. Greg was world's number 1 for 331 weeks - Rory so far for 106 weeks. Rory - it aint about comparing wins on PGA - it is about how many and how long over your career - Jack and Tiger are ahead of everyone - Greg and many others are well behind those two - and so are you Rory. They cannot do anymore - but you can - a lot more - grow up and get on with it.

If anyone needs to understand why things are so screwed up theses days (and they are - it aint us just being old males) - it is because women like this are over-educated idiots and are involved in way too many areas of life. Not saying they should stay in the kitchen, but when they were there, only one man had to put up with all their sheite - now we all have to do it. Sorry - not a joke - although it is a joke. And that is why I love my Thai wife to bits - she knows and accepts who shie is and is extremely happy with life (unlike the idiot above) - she was brought up the old way - the much better way.

Yep - and they are all technically a Tourist Visa.

Given that the minimum wage is 300 baht and most workers work 6 days a week in Thailand, that equates to about 90,000 baht. To reach 150,000 baht only requires 500 baht a day (or about 400 baht a day if 7 days). Do you really think that many Thais do not earn more than that - bar girls earn a lot more - so do many others. But your point is correct and it agrees with my point - most Thais do not pay income tax. Many should - but they dont - compliance is not enforced. My wife worked as a housmaid and made more than 150K and her two sisters own hairdresser shops - they all made/make over 150K - but they have never done a tax return and never will. Most Thais pay VAT tax only - and my point is that most Expats dont pay income tax (some do) but they all pay more VAT than most Thais. I dont think the Thai Govt has any idea how much value Expats bring to Thailand. Sure in the big picture they dont, but when you look at them individually they contribute a lot more to the Thailand economy and social value, than do most Tourists. Sure there are a lot more tourists, but do any of them buy houses, apartments, cars, shop at Makro, pay for Thais education, etc etc etc. The big numbers do count, but it is at the micro-level that the true value of Expats is revealed. How much is it 'worth' for Expats who raise the living and social standards of ordinary Thais - when compared to Tourists who give their money to Thai millionaires who own the airlines and hotels and malls and restaurants and duty-free places etc etc.

Sorry - you dont understand the technicalities of the legal basis upon which Visas are enacted in Thailand Law. All Visas for non-citizens are based on the Immigration Law for Tourists Visas - the only difference is their terms and conditions. Marketing differences and Title differences are not Immigration Legal differences.

I would add to your statement and that of @Derek Dangleberries that most Thais do not pay income tax. The only income tax paid by Thais is those who work for large companies who obey the tax laws (many do not). The majority of Thais, and most Expats, and all Tourists, pay their tax through the VAT system. And the vast majority of Expats pay a lot more VAT than Thais ever do in their lifetime. The purchases may well be in their Thai partner's name, but they paid the VAT - and all the other duties and taxes associated with large purchases like houses, apartments and motor vehicles. Expats bring a lot into the Thai economy - a lot - that is why many overseas countries actually encourage them with special Retirement Visas and additional benefits. Hey - it is Thailand - but they are missing out on what they do not recognise as a valuable 'economic resource'. If I was to do the analysis now that I did over 10 years ago - I would go for Philippines of Malaysia or Indonesia (Bali/Lombok) - because of all the crap the Junta has done to Expats since they 'took over'.

I think you are, like most people, misinterpreting the meaning of the type of Visas and what they are legally in Thailand. How things are structured and set up for applications to be made etc. is not what they legally are. They are all Tourist Visas - Short Term or Long Term - none of them are 'Immigrant' Visas - as the name says - 'Non-Immigrant'. Thailand does not provide Immigrant Visas - they only provide Tourist Visas - many different types and lengths of stay for each category, but they are all Tourist Visas. Everyone who enters Thailand under one of their Visas is legally and technically a tourist. That is why everyone has to report 90 days and extend after 12 months TM47 etc etc etc. I saw a video where the head of the new 'Retirement and Nomad Visas' was interviewed about the new proposed Visas. She explained in answer to a legal/technical question that all Visas, including Thailand Elite, are basically Tourist Visas with specific requirements and allowances (even Diplomatic Visas). In the new proposed Visas, like the Thailand Elite and the 10 Year Visa, the 90 day and annual extension etc is done for the holders. I did not know that and was not sure she was correct, so started checking things out and it was true - there are no Immigration Visas to enter Thailand - they are all variations on the basic Tourist Visa. https://consular.mfa.go.th/th/page/cate-7393-general-information?menu=5d68c88b15e39c160c0081e0

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience first time round - and probably not much positive stuff since then - I understand why you have taken the 'sucking it up and just living with it' path in regards to the matter. However, I can assure you that the majority of Thai people do not feel the same way about Expats as the Thai Military and Police - and even then not all Military and Police feel that way too. And most ordinary Thais know that they are better off with Expats livcing there than hordes of Indians and Chinese who spenmd very little time with them, and spend most of their money in places owned by wealthy Thais (especially the Thainese ones). I should point out in case you did not realise this but the 'Immigration' in Thailand is the Police. The immigration 'Department' is actually a part of the Thai Police - they control all compliance with the Immigration laws but they do not make them (and they interpret them the way to see fit from Officer to Officer and Office to Office. The Thai 'people' that we are talking about are the ones who make the laws. Currently it is the Thainese Military, who as you say, dislike 'western' Expats and have made that very clear. But hopefully things will change in the future and a new Thai Govt will make things a little fairer and more reasonable. Who knows, with the current Junta Govt in the 'poopoo' and experiencing economic troubles, with bugger all tourists and wealthy retirees that TAT constantly predicted. They might (might) decide to join in with the other countries all around the world who are making attractive Expat 'retirement' packages to encourage them to come and spend their money there. The cheap charlie sexpat arrangements are gone forever (good IMO), but the Junta just might realise that 1000 financially moderate Expats is worth a lot more than 10 wealthy retirees - which is what the other countries realised long ago. Malaysia is not possible for a sexpat living off only their pension and spending most of their money on bars and girls - but it is possible for someone with a reasonable retirement fund. 10 years ago Thailand was always the number 1 2 or 3 recommended place for western Expats to retire on all the Expat websites. Now Thailand is not in most top 10 lists - places like Panama, Costa Rica, Malaysia and Spain are all way ahead of Thailand. Like you, I am resigned to living in Thailand in the future, because I am married to a Thai. I just hope that one day the Thai Junta will make it easier for me to live in Thailand - maybe not as easy as it is for my Thai wife to live in Australia, but at least a little bit closer to that level of fairness - especially about medical services and insurance.

I hear you mate - and I hope it all goes well for you and Porn. I was not aware of the new processes they have put in place for Thais married to a UK citizen that want to be become permanent residents. Probably too many people were taking advantage of it - maybe too many coming illegally and they hads to tighten things up? They will probably tighten up here in Aust in the near future, but for now (as far as I know) it is a much easier process here than in the UK that is for sure. Patience and persistence mate - good luck with it all. Now that my wife has Citizenship and a Passport, we can travel to and from Thailand as much as we like - after I get the pension of course. Plus we can live there for some time and then we can both come back at anytime. There are not many things better here than in Thailand - road safety (oppression) is one, and free medical services is the other. If/when medical costs get too much, or we get in the sheite with a local mafia/police/hiso, then a return is on the cards.

None of your business + that is a medical question - are you a doctor??

Is the Visa your wife applied for an immigrant Visa or a non-immigrant Visa - and did she apply for the Visa from overseas or was she granted an extension to stay in UK converting to a marriage Visa? Obviously I know what I am talking about with regards to Australia as my wife did the application and process, but my understanding is that the UK is basically the same. For Australia a Thai can apply for a 'tourist/visitor' Visa as the 'sponsored' wife of a citizen, and can stay up to 12 months (with provision to extend). For the UK I understand that a Thai wife of a UK citizen and stay on a 'marriage Visa' for up to 5 years - but they are still a visitor. Perhaps this is what Visa she has? I might be wrong and maybe in UK things have been changed since I last discussed all this with a Pom some years ago. I have done a little research and found this: Check if you can get indefinite leave to remain - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) Indefinite leave to remain if you have family in the UK: Apply as a partner (family visa) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

@lazarus Mate - can I identify as a pregnant male when I go to the shops?

Sorry mate, but they are Tourist Visas - that is the point. All non-immigrant Visas are tourist Visas that give you permission to stay for 12 months, and then you have to apply to have your 'permission to stay in the Kingdom' extended for another 12 months. Fact. Prove me wrong by all means. Just like here in Australia, Thai people can apply to move to UK as a Provisional Immigrant, and the process is very much the same as applying for a non-immigrant 12 months Visa to Thailand. Once they are accepted and arrive, they have rights to most Government services, including medical and can stay indefinitely. After being good and serving a 'qualifying period' they automatically become 'residents', and are then entitled to all Govt services. Then after another period of time they can apply to become full citizens. Your point about free services to Thai tourists is correct - and all Expats in Thailand are the same - tourists. But after 3 years an Expat that stays in Thailand full-time can apply to become a Thai Resident, and after a further period they can apply to become a Thai citizen. That is different (easier) if the Expat is the female wife of a male Thai citizen.