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Thai Spice

Dementia care in Thailand for foreigners

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Just found this article. Not sure what to think about it. 

Families sending relatives with dementia to Thailand for care

British families are sending elderly relatives with dementia overseas to Thailand in a small but growing trend.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/12/families-sending-relatives-with-dementia-to-thailand-for-care

On one side if the concerned persons can have an better end of life in Thailand than in their homecountry, why not ?

On the other hand, if a country can not take properly care of it's elderly and sick people and "export" them is becoming an option, there is IMO a huge national and moral problem.

Not UK bashing, plse don't start, but what you think about this ?  Yes, I know "UK is fecked" "NHS is dead" etc.... but still....

 

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Have certainly seen stories in the past of care homes in LOS catering for Scandinavians, and the standard of care being praised. So suspect this trend has been out there a while, albeit perhaps on a lower level?

Thai homes can from the article over a standard of care and lower cost that could only be dreamed about in the UK, or anywhere in the West I'd suggest.

"When his wife’s condition worsened, their daughter found a Chiang Mai care home on the internet. “We have three to four carers for every dementia guest here and my wife’s caregivers are my close friends now,” Sims said"

I would understand why family would want to do it, and wouldn't criticise anyone for it.

It has to depend on the patient though. If he/she was someone who had spent significant time in LOS and was happy there, then absolutely yes! 

This would need understanding on the authorities granting visa to family for extended periods to be out there with there loved one.

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Lemondropkid said:

1) I would understand why family would want to do it, and wouldn't criticise anyone for it.

It has to depend on the patient though. If he/she was someone who had spent significant time in LOS and was happy there, then absolutely yes! 

2) This would need understanding on the authorities granting visa to family for extended periods to be out there with there loved one.

1) Fully agree. My criticism was more towards the UK health system.

2) Yep, that is certainly an issue. Except if the home / establishment can assist in the process ?

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It didn't say anything about the visas they are using for the patient ..

no personal experience  of dementia myself , but wouldn't this be very confusing for the patients 

the article seems anecdotal , no numbers , I doubt if more than a few Brits have gone this route and it will be those mentioned who already have connections to Thailand 

"Johnston spent nine weeks in Thailand along with Prof Geraldine Pratt, head of geography at the University of British Columbia, interviewing families and staff in residential care homes."

sounds more like a jolly for these two , so they had to get something published afterwards to justify the expenses .....  

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there is a home on the dark side that specialises in this, mainly for expats.  i am told they do an excellent job too

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32 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

but wouldn't this be very confusing for the patients 

Potentially extremely confusing- I think it would  work best in very specific circumstances where the patient had strong links/memories with LOS .

Finding an appropriate home in the UK was in my experience a nightmare, though I did get there in the end.

LOS wouldn't have worked for my Mum despite her always complaining of feeling cold😁, but having been through it myself I couldn't bring myself to criticise someone else in the same situation, making a different decision.

I heard nightmare stories from other patients families and carers about their experiences in other UK homes. Can really understand as to why people might make seemingly drastic choices

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I have a Japanese friend in London (she's lived here decades, and is very Anglicised) who has a good friend in Japan who has put her mother in such a place, near Chiang Mai.

I think this will be a growing trend. The care is very labour intensive, so going where the labour is cheaper makes sense.

My mother had Alzheimers, and in the final years didn't know me, or whether I'd visited. I don't think the fact that friends and relatives won't visit very much is too important. What is important is good quality care and companionship.

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The German guy I met at Xmas was talking about a new care home for dementia/altziemer sufferers in the planning stages near Udon.

The way I understood it the place would be for any Europeans. Some big corporate money behind it apparently.

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Stickman ran a readers letter about this a few years ago.
It was a fantasy story whereby there was an old people’s home in Thailand somewhere, where the elderly male residents received very personal nursing care.

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All I can say is, "UK is fecked" "NHS is dead" etc, lol.

Seriously, I've had one of my best friends and an aunt die in recent years of dementia and the NHS is like a battery chicken farm, it does the job but there's not much dignity involved.

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It's not the UK that's sending these people out here, it's individual families.  There are care systems in place in the UK, both private and NHS, and if individuals can't afford them, or don't like the quality of service or whatever then so be it and they are perfectly entitled to look elsewhere.  They've had all their life to prepare for old age and it shouldn't come as a surprise.

The Guardian trying to make an issue of it is just typical sensationalist journalism.

Edited by KWA

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2 hours ago, KWA said:

It's not the UK that's sending these people out here, it's individual families.  There are care systems in place in the UK, both private and NHS, and if individuals can't afford them, or don't like the quality of service or whatever then so be it and they are perfectly entitled to look elsewhere.  

Would be interesting to see if the same happens for other European countries ? Say Germany, France, Netherlands, etc....

Or if this is mainly a UK problem ?

Edit : A google search in French turned up some articles from Switzerland.

 

 

Edited by Thai Spice

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3 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

Would be interesting to see if the same happens for other European countries ? Say Germany, France, Netherlands, etc....

Or if this is mainly a UK problem ?

Don't think of it as a problem, think of it as an opportunity.

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1 minute ago, KWA said:

Don't think of it as a problem, think of it as an opportunity.

Yep, but only for those who can afford it. That's the problem. 

Normally any country should offer good, affordable care to all its citizens.

See my edit above : Seems to be a bit popular in Switzerland also. But hey, they're all rich there !

 

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16 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

Yep, but only for those who can afford it. That's the problem. 

Normally any country should offer good, affordable care to all its citizens.

See my edit above : Seems to be a bit popular in Switzerland also. But hey, they're all rich there !

 

Can only speak to the UK the home my Mum was £4300 per month, so $5,500 or 168,00 THB

If you had savings (not sure what the ceiling was but it was not very high), you had to  pay

Note- paying this amount was no guarantee of a good level. 

A little bit of googling and can find a home in Thailand, where a large private room and a private nurse is available 24/7 for 50,000 baht a Mum. I would guess where my Mum was a single nurse was covering 50 patients on a floor.

 

Edited by Lemondropkid
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15 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

Yep, but only for those who can afford it. That's the problem. 

Normally any country should offer good, affordable care to all its citizens.

If one guy studies hard, works hard, saves appropriately etc and another sits on his butt all his life, then the first guy will be able to afford things the second can't.  That is not a problem, it's the way of the world.

It may be the luck of birth that we are where we are, but it's a fact that not all countries are the same.

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38 minutes ago, KWA said:

If one guy studies hard, works hard, saves appropriately etc and another sits on his butt all his life, then the first guy will be able to afford things the second can't.  That is not a problem, it's the way of the world.

It may be the luck of birth that we are where we are, but it's a fact that not all countries are the same.

It should NEVER be up to a country to provide care to its citizens ... this is not a birth right given to you to have the government take care of you .... you gotta take care of yourself your entire life ( up to death ) ...

This has become a phenomena the last 20 years ..... get everything from the government ... healthcare, education, free food, free housing, etc. at least in first level countries .....

I say the "SECOND" should get off of his ass and take care of himself ... its not hard to do ... regardless of the situation .... I have a personal "hate" ( pretty severe word ) for lazy fuckers that expect everything to be given to them ...

 

Edited by code_slayer_bkk
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33 minutes ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

It should NEVER be up to a country to provide care to its citizens ... this is not a birth right given to you to have the government take care of you .... you gotta take care of yourself your entire life ( up to death ) ...

This has become a phenomena the last 20 years ..... get everything from the government ... healthcare, education, free food, free housing, etc. at least in first level countries .....

I say the "SECOND" should get off of his ass and take care of himself ... its not hard to do ... regardless of the situation .... I have a personal "hate" ( pretty severe word ) for lazy fuckers that expect everything to be given to them ...

 

Code :

Education : should be free, like in France. If not is limits good education to the rich only. Example Thailand... how a Thai earning 30 or 40 k a month, can pay close to 200k for his kid in UNI ?

Healthcare : We pay every month x% on our salaries for healthcare to the healthcare system. Our employer pays in also. So its not really "free".  

In France I had around 24% deducted on my gross salary for healtcare ,, pension, etc..contribution. So its not free. And I am not speaking about revenue taxes yet ! 

I know it is a very different system in the US.

 

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1 hour ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

This has become a phenomena the last 20 years ...

I agree with you, people should work for and pay for their own health care and other basic services.  That allows them maximum choice and control over their lives, and keeps the government from attempting to micromanage people's lives.  It also curtails the transfer of wealth from the workers to the indigent, which governments use to buy votes from the people they want dependent on them.  This is an American way of thinking though.

For us, this phenomenon is recent.  In Europe it goes back much farther, at least to the end of WWII.  I have my opinions as to the reasons for the differences between the two cultures, but will withhold them in this case because they usually provoke a negative reaction from our European friends.

Edited by Rompho Ray

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2 hours ago, Thai Spice said:

Code :

Education : should be free, like in France. If not is limits good education to the rich only. Example Thailand... how a Thai earning 30 or 40 k a month, can pay close to 200k for his kid in UNI ?

 

Bro .. seriously ... there are a shit load of Thais that send their kids to other countries for the college degrees ... and it is not about the education system ( although not great )  here it is about "face" ...  "face" drives society here

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1 hour ago, Rompho Ray said:

I agree with you, people should work for and pay for their own health care and other basic services.  That allows them maximum choice and control over their lives, and keeps the government from attempting to micromanage people's lives.  It also curtails the transfer of wealth from the workers to the indigent, which governments use to buy votes from the people they want dependent on them.  This is an American way of thinking though.

 

Well said! ...... But, I am not sure it is only an American way of thinking though .....

Edited by code_slayer_bkk

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16 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

But, I am not sure it is only an American way of thinking though .....

You'll note that I didn't include the word "only".  Not to be a peckerhead (this time) but I'm pretty careful about how I write.

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