COVID 19 GLOBAL

[Ivan the terrible]

19 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

So, an Aussie news outlet citing The Sun.

Google the topic and you have The Sun, The Mirror,  Daily Mail pop up.

All reliable, quality news outlets.....

Maybe need to recheck that info ?

 

its not likely to be false with 3 outletswith diametically opposed political views reporting same...sticking your head up your arse  however  is likely to produce unpleasant and not false  consequences

[Painter]

[fforest]

[Thai Spice]

5 minutes ago, fforest said:

That should send an alarm directly on an app on your phone, with GPS location of the problem !  Can't imagine how we can continue to live without, knowing the worldwide dramatic shortage we recently faced !

And wait for the second wave, it will be worse, I cant even imagine the horror ....

 

 

[Evil Penevil]

1 hour ago, Thai Spice said:

So, an Aussie news outlet citing The Sun.

Google the topic and you have The Sun, The Mirror,  Daily Mail pop up.

All reliable, quality news outlets.....

Maybe need to recheck that info ?

Here's a version of the story from Deutsche Welle, a German public international broadcaster.  The DW story relies in turn on stories from Reuters. AFP and German media sources.  I'll leave to BMs themselves to compare the DW story with the Australian version.

Evil

 

Coronavirus outbreak closes German meat-packing plant

Days after Germany readied to ease coronavirus restrictions, three districts saw outbreaks that will delay reopening. After COVID-19 infections at slaughterhouses, two states will test all meat-processing workers.

Interior view of a a beef processing plant in Germany

Following a COVID-19 outbreak at a meat processing plant in the town of Coesfeld, near the western German city of Münster, the state of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW) has become the first to activate an "emergency mechanism" and delay the loosening of lockdown restrictions in the administrative district of Coesfeld until May 18.

As Germany draws down social distancing restrictions, and slowly reopens schools and businesses, the emergency mechanism is designed to stop a COVID-19 outbreak locally before it spreads further by reintroducing restrictions on public life. In most parts of the country, the restrictions are expected to be lifted on May 11.

Read more: Germans rally behind Merkel government's coronavirus response

Also referred to as an "emergency brake," the mechanism is triggered if 50 new infections per 100,000 inhabitants are detected in a district or city. NRW Health Minister Karl-Josef Laumann said that the number of new infections in Coesfeld is now at 61 per 100,000.

Laumann added that schools and day care facilities in the district would be allowed to open as planned on May 11.

The localized spike in cases comes after a test Thursday of 200 employees at the Westfleisch meat processing plant revealed 151 were positive for COVID-19. The company said 13 people have been hospitalized with moderate symptoms, and the rest are isolating with "mild" symptoms.The plant will be closed until further notice.

 

State authorities orderd Westfleisch to close for the time being

Laumann said the majority of workers were from Romania and Bulgaria, and their shared accommodation in tight quarters was a possible reason for the outbreak.

At the end of April, a similar outbreak at a meat processing plant in the southern state of Baden-Württemberg involved around 200 foreign workers who were infected.

Read more: Cheap meat hard for German farmers to swallow

All NRW slaughterhouse workers to be tested

Laumann said on Friday that an estimated 17,000-20,000 employees in all of the NRW's 35 slaughterhouses will be tested for COVID-19, included all 1,200 workers at the Westfleisch plant.

The health minister added that a smaller outbreak has been found at another NRW meat-packing plant in the town of Oer-Erkenschwick in the Ruhr region, with 33 workers out of 1,250 testing positive.

In the northern state of Schleswig-Holstein, health officials on Friday also called for state-wide testing of all slaughterhouse workers.

Earlier this week, 109 workers tested positive at a plant in Bad Bramstedt in the district of Segeberg. As with the other cases, most of the workers come from abroad and live in shared housing near the plant.

The district of Segeberg will also delay the easing of lockdown measures, Germany's DPA news agency reported.

A district in the eastern state of Thuringia also initiated the emergency measurements due to a coronavirus outbreak in an elderly care facility.

wmr/sms (dpa, Reuters, AFP)

[Ivan the terrible]

14 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

That should send an alarm directly on an app on your phone, with GPS location of the problem !  Can't imagine how we can continue to live without, knowing the worldwide dramatic shortage we recently faced !

And wait for the second wave, it will be worse, I cant even imagine the horror ....

 

 

despite my exasperation at your total and self proclaimed  ignorance i hope it doesnt visit you

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, Thai Spice said:

So, an Aussie news outlet citing The Sun.

Google the topic and you have The Sun, The Mirror,  Daily Mail pop up.

All reliable, quality news outlets.....

Maybe need to recheck that info ?

 

And yet you offer no evidence saying it's bullshit.

I googled the topic and found German media sources saying exactly the same thing.

Perhaps you should use your time in lockdown learning google.

 

[Ivan the terrible]

9 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

Here's a version of the story from Deutsche Welle, a German public international broadcaster.  The DW story relies in turn on stories from Reuters. AFP and German media sources.  I'll leave to BMs themselves to compare the DW story with the Australian version.

Evil

 

Coronavirus outbreak closes German meat-packing plant

Days after Germany readied to ease coronavirus restrictions, three districts saw outbreaks that will delay reopening. After COVID-19 infections at slaughterhouses, two states will test all meat-processing workers.

Interior view of a a beef processing plant in Germany

Following a COVID-19 outbreak at a meat processing plant in the town of Coesfeld, near the western German city of Münster, the state of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW) has become the first to activate an "emergency mechanism" and delay the loosening of lockdown restrictions in the administrative district of Coesfeld until May 18.

As Germany draws down social distancing restrictions, and slowly reopens schools and businesses, the emergency mechanism is designed to stop a COVID-19 outbreak locally before it spreads further by reintroducing restrictions on public life. In most parts of the country, the restrictions are expected to be lifted on May 11.

Read more: Germans rally behind Merkel government's coronavirus response

Also referred to as an "emergency brake," the mechanism is triggered if 50 new infections per 100,000 inhabitants are detected in a district or city. NRW Health Minister Karl-Josef Laumann said that the number of new infections in Coesfeld is now at 61 per 100,000.

Laumann added that schools and day care facilities in the district would be allowed to open as planned on May 11.

The localized spike in cases comes after a test Thursday of 200 employees at the Westfleisch meat processing plant revealed 151 were positive for COVID-19. The company said 13 people have been hospitalized with moderate symptoms, and the rest are isolating with "mild" symptoms.The plant will be closed until further notice.

 

State authorities orderd Westfleisch to close for the time being

Laumann said the majority of workers were from Romania and Bulgaria, and their shared accommodation in tight quarters was a possible reason for the outbreak.

At the end of April, a similar outbreak at a meat processing plant in the southern state of Baden-Württemberg involved around 200 foreign workers who were infected.

Read more: Cheap meat hard for German farmers to swallow

All NRW slaughterhouse workers to be tested

Laumann said on Friday that an estimated 17,000-20,000 employees in all of the NRW's 35 slaughterhouses will be tested for COVID-19, included all 1,200 workers at the Westfleisch plant.

The health minister added that a smaller outbreak has been found at another NRW meat-packing plant in the town of Oer-Erkenschwick in the Ruhr region, with 33 workers out of 1,250 testing positive.

In the northern state of Schleswig-Holstein, health officials on Friday also called for state-wide testing of all slaughterhouse workers.

Earlier this week, 109 workers tested positive at a plant in Bad Bramstedt in the district of Segeberg. As with the other cases, most of the workers come from abroad and live in shared housing near the plant.

The district of Segeberg will also delay the easing of lockdown measures, Germany's DPA news agency reported.

A district in the eastern state of Thuringia also initiated the emergency measurements due to a coronavirus outbreak in an elderly care facility.

wmr/sms (dpa, Reuters, AFP)

intersting ..the recent melbourne outbreak  of 71 cases as of today was also an abbatoir...i dont believe for a moment that there is no threat to public health as per the official  announcements ...they say no evidence of risk but what they never say is that is ZERO  evidence that it is not a risk

they dont knoww ffs ...why dont they just say so

if it can live in a toilet(QL outbreak ) it sure as hell can live on meat ?how long...do the bloody work

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ivan the terrible

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, Ivan the terrible said:

sticking your head up your arse

He thinks it's rebuttal!

 

 

[Ivan the terrible]

1 hour ago, Painter said:

you could put any political leader in there ..we are entering uncharted territory across all of the world        I ,for sure wouldnt want to be making the decisions ...its easy to take a pop...what would you do ???

Cheap shots are the home of the coward if you are not prepared to put yourself on the line

no body "knows " what to do...its best guess

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ivan the terrible

[Painter]

29 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

you could put any political leader in there ..we are entering uncharted territory across all of the world        I ,for sure wouldnt want to be making the decisions ...its easy to take a pop...what would you do ???

Cheap shots are the home of the coward if you are not prepared to put yourself on the line

no body "knows " what to do...its best guess

I'm with you, ivan. No way would I like to make any decisions, when whatever they say could effect so many....

I put it up as a cartoon showing the dilemma the leaders had.

[Evil Penevil]

South Korea tracks new coronavirus outbreak in Seoul nightclubs

Sangmi Cha, Josh Smith

SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korean health authorities are investigating a small but growing coronavirus outbreak centred in a handful of Seoul nightclubs, seeking to keep infections in check as the country moves to less restrictive social distancing measures.

The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said on Friday at least 15 people have confirmed cases of the virus linked to the clubs in Itaewon, a neighbourhood popular with Koreans and foreigners in the city.

South Korea has reported only a handful of cases in recent days, the majority of them in people arriving from overseas. The nightclub infections, while still limited, are expected to increase, and come at a time when the country has eased some social distancing restrictions.

“These venues have all the dangerous conditions that we were the most concerned about,” KCDC director Jeong Eun-kyeong said on Friday, referring to crowding and ventilation issues.

“We think it is necessary to strengthen management for such facilities and we urge you to refrain from visiting such facilities as much as possible.”

Seoul city officials say they have a list of about 1,500 people who have visited the clubs, and more cases have been confirmed in other cities where the patients lived or travelled. Authorities have asked anyone who visited the clubs over the weekend to self isolate for 14 days and be tested.

The cluster of infections also raised controversy over the possible unintended side effects of South Korea’s invasive tracing and wide public disclosure of some patient information.

When several local media outlets identified the nightclubs as “gay clubs,” it sparked criticism the disclosures and media coverage could out lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer(LGBTQ) individuals against their will or lead to discrimination.

“Gay” and “Itaewon corona” were among the top trending terms on South Korea’s Naver web search portal following the reports.

Some social media users worried that fear of public disclosure could deter some club goers from being tested, and compared the cluster to the country’s largest outbreak, which infected thousands of members of a secretive church.

The reports included the age, gender, location and movements of the first individual who was tested positive after visiting those clubs, as well as the type of job he worked in, according to Solidarity for LGBT Human Rights in Korea, the nation’s largest rights group.

“It is not just unhelpful to disclose information of an individual’s movement for prevention efforts, but also a serious human rights violation that invades the individual’s privacy and has him outed to society,” the group said.

Some local media later ammended headlines, removing references to “gay bars” but did not make any official apologies.

Homosexuality is not illegal in South Korea, and there is growing public acceptance of LGBTQ relations.

Yet discrimination remains widespread and some gay people suffer hate crimes, rights advocates say.

To battle the coronavirus outbreak, South Korea has embraced a high-tech approach to contact tracing, which can include accessing a patient’s cell phone location data, CCTV footage, credit card statements, and other information.

Automated cell phone alerts are then sent to anyone suspected of having been in the same area as the confirmed case, with health authorities often disclosing details on the patient’s gender, age, whereabouts and sometimes workplace in an effort to track new cases.

(LINK)

[fforest]

[Ivan the terrible]

nightclubs have got to   be history till 2021  surely...madness to think otherwise

[Ivan the terrible]

3 minutes ago, fforest said:

99% is speculative ...20 % need to go to hospital...50% of that end up serious .50 % of those end in ITU 

 5%  survive when ventilated..1 in 20 

its catastrophic

[galenkia]

27 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

nightclubs have got to   be history till 2021  surely...madness to think otherwise

Had 4 gigs and a long weekend metal festival at a Great Yarmouth holiday camp booked. 

2 gigs rescheduled for September but can't see any of them happening. 

[fforest]

18 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

99% is speculative ...20 % need to go to hospital...50% of that end up serious .50 % of those end in ITU 

 5%  survive when ventilated..1 in 20 

its catastrophic

It does not matter if the 99% is perfectly correct or not.......The point is no disease should be able to take away basic human rights of the whole world.......And any one that supports this does not value freedom for themself or others.....

[Evil Penevil]

Study Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies

Posted on May 7th, 2020 by Dr. Francis Collins

 

There’s been a lot of excitement about the potential of antibody-based blood tests, also known as serology tests, to help contain the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. There’s also an awareness that more research is needed to determine when—or even if—people infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, produce antibodies that may protect them from re-infection.

A recent study in Nature Medicine brings much-needed clarity, along with renewed enthusiasm, to efforts to develop and implement widescale antibody testing for SARS-CoV-2 [1]. Antibodies are blood proteins produced by the immune system to fight foreign invaders like viruses, and may help to ward off future attacks by those same invaders.

In their study of blood drawn from 285 people hospitalized with severe COVID-19, researchers in China, led by Ai-Long Huang, Chongqing Medical University, found that all had developed SARS-CoV-2 specific antibodies within two to three weeks of their first symptoms. Although more follow-up work is needed to determine just how protective these antibodies are and for how long, these findings suggest that the immune systems of people who survive COVID-19 have been be primed to recognize SARS-CoV-2 and possibly thwart a second infection.

Specifically, the researchers determined that nearly all of the 285 patients studied produced a type of antibody called IgM, which is the first antibody that the body makes when fighting an infection. Though only about 40 percent produced IgM in the first week after onset of COVID-19, that number increased steadily to almost 95 percent two weeks later. All of these patients also produced a type of antibody called IgG. While IgG often appears a little later after acute infection, it has the potential to confer sustained immunity.

To confirm their results, the researchers turned to another group of 69 people diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers collected blood samples from each person upon admission to the hospital and every three days thereafter until discharge. The team found that, with the exception of one woman and her daughter, the patients produced specific antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 within 20 days of their first symptoms of COVID-19.

Meanwhile, innovative efforts are being made on the federal level to advance COVID-19 testing. The NIH just launched the Rapid Acceleration of Diagnostics (RADx) Initiative to support a variety of research activities aimed at improving detection of the virus. As I recently highlighted on this blog, one key component of RADx is a “shark tank”-like competition to encourage science and engineering’s most inventive minds to develop rapid, easy-to-use technologies to test for the presence of SARS-CoV-2.

On the serology testing side, the NIH’s National Cancer Institute has been checking out kits that are designed to detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and have found mixed results. In response, the Food and Drug Administration just issued its updated policy on antibody tests for COVID-19. This guidance sets forth precise standards for laboratories and commercial manufacturers that will help to speed the availability of high-quality antibody tests, which in turn will expand the capacity for rapid and widespread testing in the United States.

Finally, it’s important to keep in mind that there are two different types of SARS-CoV-2 tests. Those that test for the presence of viral nucleic acid or protein are used to identify people who are acutely infected and should be immediately quarantined. Tests for IgM and/or IgG antibodies to the virus, if well-validated, indicate a person has previously been infected with COVID-19 and is now potentially immune. Two very different types of tests—two very different meanings.

There’s still a way to go with both virus and antibody testing for COVID-19. But as this study and others begin to piece together the complex puzzle of antibody-mediated immunity, it will be possible to learn more about the human body’s response to SARS-CoV-2 and home in on our goal of achieving safe, effective, and sustained protection against this devastating disease.

Reference:

[1] Antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in patients with COVID-19. Long QX, Huang AI, et al. Nat Med. 2020 Apr 29. [Epub ahead of print]

Links:

Coronaviruses  (NIH)

“NIH Begins Study to Quantify Undetected Cases of Coronavirus Infection,” NIH News Release, April 10, 2020.

“NIH mobilizes national innovation initiative for COVID-19 diagnostics,” NIH News Release, April 29, 2020.

Policy for Coronavirus Disease-2019 Tests During the Public Health Emergency (Revised), May 2020 (Food and Drug Administration)

 

The article comes from the NIH Director's Blog. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) is a part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and is the nation’s medical research agency.

Evil

 

[galenkia]

5 minutes ago, fforest said:

And any one that supports this does not value freedom for themself or others.....

Or show any consideration for other people. 

Let's just infect everyone and bring our health services to their knees. 

[Ivan the terrible]

4 minutes ago, fforest said:

It does not matter if the 99% is perfectly correct or not.......The point is no disease should be able to take away basic human rights of the whole world.......And any one that supports this does not value freedom for themself or others.....

i disagree ..... the virus NECESSITATES   a lockdown for the greater good 

Personal freedom has always had limits

We are not anarchic...surely

I wish our human communication bubble was looser ...but...it aint...suck it up snowflake

live with the reality

[Spacedog]

18 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

99% is speculative ...20 % need to go to hospital...50% of that end up serious .50 % of those end in ITU 

 5%  survive when ventilated..1 in 20 

its catastrophic

What’s catastrophic is the damage being done to the economy’s of the world. The resulting depression which will follow this will ruin millions of people’s lives for a very long time. Politicians need to think long and hard on what actions they are endorsing. I agree the choices or not easy and don’t sit comfortably with some, but they have to manage/govern that’s the mandate they have been given. However the public’s memory is very short. It’s all well sitting at home being paid 80% salary doing nothing The crunch will be when they are expected to return to work, many will find they have no jobs to return to. A couple of years down the line with the economy still not at 2019 levels and large numbers of people unemployed, politicians  will be asking for the public’s votes to return to office. See how quickly the public will turn, you reap what you sow. It took Boris and the Tories years to break the northern red wall gaining a parliamentary majority. If he gets this wrong which I fear he will, it could be a very long time before he gets these seats again

[Ivan the terrible]

2 minutes ago, Spacedog said:

What’s catastrophic is the damage being done to the economy’s of the world. The resulting depression which will follow this will ruin millions of people’s lives for a very long time. Politicians need to think long and hard on what actions they are endorsing. I agree the choices or not easy and don’t sit comfortably with some, but they have to manage/govern that’s the mandate they have been given. However the public’s memory is very short. It’s all well sitting at home being paid 80% salary doing nothing The crunch will be when they are expected to return to work, many will find they have no jobs to return to. A couple of years down the line with the economy still not at 2019 levels and large numbers of people unemployed, politicians  will be asking for the public’s votes to return to office. See how quickly the public will turn, you reap what you sow. It took Boris and the Tories years to break the northern red wall gaining a parliamentary majority. If he gets this wrong which I fear he will, it could be a very long time before he gets these seats again

its a very good point...but the is no resiling from the reality  of the infectivity and lethality of this cuntish virus

its a damn looser either way but we have to live 

be cautious...but it will erupt....there is no stopping this fucker without a vaccine or pure luck

[fygjam]

29 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

Study Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies

Posted on May 7th, 2020 by Dr. Francis Collins

 

There’s been a lot of excitement about the potential of antibody-based blood tests, also known as serology tests, to help contain the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. There’s also an awareness that more research is needed to determine when—or even if—people infected with SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, produce antibodies that may protect them from re-infection.

A recent study in Nature Medicine brings much-needed clarity, along with renewed enthusiasm, to efforts to develop and implement widescale antibody testing for SARS-CoV-2 [1]. Antibodies are blood proteins produced by the immune system to fight foreign invaders like viruses, and may help to ward off future attacks by those same invaders.

In their study of blood drawn from 285 people hospitalized with severe COVID-19, researchers in China, led by Ai-Long Huang, Chongqing Medical University, found that all had developed SARS-CoV-2 specific antibodies within two to three weeks of their first symptoms. Although more follow-up work is needed to determine just how protective these antibodies are and for how long, these findings suggest that the immune systems of people who survive COVID-19 have been be primed to recognize SARS-CoV-2 and possibly thwart a second infection.

Specifically, the researchers determined that nearly all of the 285 patients studied produced a type of antibody called IgM, which is the first antibody that the body makes when fighting an infection. Though only about 40 percent produced IgM in the first week after onset of COVID-19, that number increased steadily to almost 95 percent two weeks later. All of these patients also produced a type of antibody called IgG. While IgG often appears a little later after acute infection, it has the potential to confer sustained immunity.

To confirm their results, the researchers turned to another group of 69 people diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers collected blood samples from each person upon admission to the hospital and every three days thereafter until discharge. The team found that, with the exception of one woman and her daughter, the patients produced specific antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 within 20 days of their first symptoms of COVID-19.

Meanwhile, innovative efforts are being made on the federal level to advance COVID-19 testing. The NIH just launched the Rapid Acceleration of Diagnostics (RADx) Initiative to support a variety of research activities aimed at improving detection of the virus. As I recently highlighted on this blog, one key component of RADx is a “shark tank”-like competition to encourage science and engineering’s most inventive minds to develop rapid, easy-to-use technologies to test for the presence of SARS-CoV-2.

On the serology testing side, the NIH’s National Cancer Institute has been checking out kits that are designed to detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and have found mixed results. In response, the Food and Drug Administration just issued its updated policy on antibody tests for COVID-19. This guidance sets forth precise standards for laboratories and commercial manufacturers that will help to speed the availability of high-quality antibody tests, which in turn will expand the capacity for rapid and widespread testing in the United States.

Finally, it’s important to keep in mind that there are two different types of SARS-CoV-2 tests. Those that test for the presence of viral nucleic acid or protein are used to identify people who are acutely infected and should be immediately quarantined. Tests for IgM and/or IgG antibodies to the virus, if well-validated, indicate a person has previously been infected with COVID-19 and is now potentially immune. Two very different types of tests—two very different meanings.

There’s still a way to go with both virus and antibody testing for COVID-19. But as this study and others begin to piece together the complex puzzle of antibody-mediated immunity, it will be possible to learn more about the human body’s response to SARS-CoV-2 and home in on our goal of achieving safe, effective, and sustained protection against this devastating disease.

Reference:

[1] Antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in patients with COVID-19. Long QX, Huang AI, et al. Nat Med. 2020 Apr 29. [Epub ahead of print]

Links:

Coronaviruses  (NIH)

“NIH Begins Study to Quantify Undetected Cases of Coronavirus Infection,” NIH News Release, April 10, 2020.

“NIH mobilizes national innovation initiative for COVID-19 diagnostics,” NIH News Release, April 29, 2020.

Policy for Coronavirus Disease-2019 Tests During the Public Health Emergency (Revised), May 2020 (Food and Drug Administration)

 

The article comes from the NIH Director's Blog. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) is a part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and is the nation’s medical research agency.

Evil

 

The key words to look for  are neutralising (or neutralizing) antibodies. i.e. antibodies that are actually effective in stopping the virus.

A neutralizing antibody is an antibody that defends a cell from a pathogen or infectious particle by neutralizing any effect it has biologically. Neutralisation renders the particle no longer infectious or pathogenic.

 

 

 

[Stillearly]

British Covid-19 patient in Vietnam could have lung transplant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/british-covid-19-patient-in-vietnam-could-have-lung-transplant

 

 

[fforest]

51 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

i disagree ..... the virus NECESSITATES   a lockdown for the greater good 

Personal freedom has always had limits

We are not anarchic...surely

I wish our human communication bubble was looser ...but...it aint...suck it up snowflake

live with the reality

Its kind of funny how people who support freedom of Choice and basic human rights support it for all people including yourself........Like to get Vaxxed or not people deserve the right to choose YES or NO.......

It must be  very unpleasant not giving freedoms to yourself and others....Not the kind of world I want to live in.....

Edited May 9, 2020 by fforest