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AI -- Learning Machines


code_slayer_bkk
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I read a lot about AI .. learning machines .. but, there is a simple component I still don't get

You are telling me .. you write a piece of code and the machine is smart enough to adapt or change that piece of code ( without any programmers ) on its own .. learn to adapt ...

Some super smart fucks that wrote that initial piece of code to allow a machine to adapt and change that code as it learns more .. or AI is the wrong misnomer

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7 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

I read a lot about AI .. learning machines .. but, there is a simple component I still don't get

You are telling me .. you write a piece of code and the machine is smart enough to adapt or change that piece of code ( without any programmers ) on its own .. learn to adapt ...

Some super smart fucks that wrote that initial piece of code to allow a machine to adapt and change that code as it learns more .. or AI is the wrong misnomer

two issues for me as a thicko.  1) if it learns to adapt it can learn toadapt to negatives as well as positives, in other words replicate mistakes  2) SOME CUNT HAS FULL ACCESS  to your business operations, thats the cunt who wrote the code, with the few odd lines that he knows as a backdoor

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6 minutes ago, tommy dee said:

two issues for me as a thicko.  1) if it learns to adapt it can learn toadapt to negatives as well as positives, in other words replicate mistakes  2) SOME c**t HAS FULL ACCESS  to your business operations, thats the c**t who wrote the code, with the few odd lines that he knows as a backdoor

Bro .. I have been writing code my entire life ... I am pretty fucking good at it .. there are always " back doors" a really good programmer creates within the code they do for anyone .... primarily to shut the code down ( f**k up your business ) .. if the customer doesn't pay their bill .... take your customer lists ... etceteras ...

I have never done anything like that .. but, I always create more than a couple "back doors" 

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10 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

Bro .. I have been writing code my entire life ... I am pretty fucking good at it .. there are always " back doors" a really good programmer creates within the code they do for anyone .... primarily to shut the code down ( f**k up your business ) .. if the customer doesn't pay their bill .... take your customer lists ... etceteras ...

I have never done anything like that .. but, I always create more than a couple "back doors" 

I've created some backdoors as well in my time and just didn't close a loophole in other cases. One nice case was a module, which would allow or disallow (depending on settings) a user from accessing programs and/or options within those programs. The program to maintain that used the same module. A customer set up things in such a way, that access to that program was blocked for everyone. Knowing that part of the database quite well (I had written it 😉 ), I just disabled that module. All it required was access to a command line to start an interactive SQL session, something the users at the customers site lacked.

A more serious hack was restoring access to the QSECOFR profile on an AS/400 after the password was lost. I only managed because a complete set of loopholes was nicely and exactly in line (the problem with Swiss chess security, sometimes the holes line up). The only thing that made it legal, even at that time, was that it was by direct request of the victim to my employer (owner/director of the company that employed me) and from him directly to me in the presence of the victim. After it was done, several people were scratching their head how I had lined up the combination of loopholes in two AS/400s to make it possible. They were even more impressed by the way I withdrew without leaving any other trace than an again accessible QSECOFR profile.

 

And no, I don't believe in AI, at least not above the level of the original Eliza.

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6 hours ago, Freee!! said:

I've created some backdoors as well in my time and just didn't close a loophole in other cases. One nice case was a module, which would allow or disallow (depending on settings) a user from accessing programs and/or options within those programs. The program to maintain that used the same module. A customer set up things in such a way, that access to that program was blocked for everyone. Knowing that part of the database quite well (I had written it 😉 ), I just disabled that module. All it required was access to a command line to start an interactive SQL session, something the users at the customers site lacked.

A more serious hack was restoring access to the QSECOFR profile on an AS/400 after the password was lost. I only managed because a complete set of loopholes was nicely and exactly in line (the problem with Swiss chess security, sometimes the holes line up). The only thing that made it legal, even at that time, was that it was by direct request of the victim to my employer (owner/director of the company that employed me) and from him directly to me in the presence of the victim. After it was done, several people were scratching their head how I had lined up the combination of loopholes in two AS/400s to make it possible. They were even more impressed by the way I withdrew without leaving any other trace than an again accessible QSECOFR profile.

 

And no, I don't believe in AI, at least not above the level of the original Eliza.

I wrote so much LU6.2 communications code on AS/400s is was ridiculous .. it was a nice machine and believe it or not I still think RPG ( with subfiles ) was a pretty good language ...

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The Machine Stops
The story describes a world in which most of the human population has lost the ability to live on the surface of the Earth. Each individual now lives in isolation below ground in a standard room, with all bodily and spiritual needs met by the omnipotent, global Machine.
Genre(s): Science fiction short story
Author: E. M. Forster
Publication date: November 1909
Published in: The Oxford and Cambridge Revi...
 
I had to study the above book a million years ago as it was prescribed reading for my O-Level English Language examination. In one major way it is no exaggeration to say it changed my life in so much that it was the catalyst for me changing from somebody who had never voluntarily read a book in his life to a confirmed and avid reader thereafter.
The genre is described as "science fiction" but E. M. Forster in 1909 describes many aspects of our life now which we take for granted. For instance, being able to see and talk to one another anywhere in the world using a "monitor" linked to the "The Machine" that quite literally runs the world.  
In the world he describes mankind is totally dependant on "The Machine" and has no need to travel, work or do anything other than exist as "The Machine" supplies and provides all nutritional needs etc. 
Infact, mankind has lost the ability to do virtually anything other than exist thanks to "The Machine."
Except, "The Machine" is self repairing and starts to go wrong. Quite simply what happens when The Machine's "self repairing" facility itself goes wrong and mankind has lost the ability to rectify the problem?
The answer is mankind goes down the shitter!
Every time I see virtually everybody in a room sitting down totally engrossed with the phone in their hand it reminds me of this prophetic novel by E. M.Forster and makes me wonder what the world will become in a hundred years time. A world very different from now and totally dependant upon technology and AI.
I am glad I will not be around.
 
 
 
 
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2 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

Yea, I watched this a weeks or so ago ....

I saw a lot of Chinese camera surveillance set-ups (shown in the PBS documentary) traveling through the country the past few years (up until Covid)...

Have to wonder who is actually watching?  Most of their security personnel that I saw were young and somewhat disinterested in their work. Very polite, though.

The military guards were serious outside public buildings though, as I was shooed away with my camera a few times.

You know how China is.  Sometimes there can be a lot more than meets the eye and other times it's just eating, drinking, smoking, etc...

Mostly it's just young boys in their early 20s staring at their phones wishing there were more girls... 

AI is doing the heavy lifting...tracking and recording...testing billions of possibilities...ID'ing possible troublemakers ...even before they've thought of it themselves!

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^^^  .. Yea Bro .. I saw the same things you saw in China .... I lived there for a couple years and was happy to get the hell out of dodge .......

Maybe my view on AI is a little off base ... There is no self "healing" or self "learning" code .. code that can automatically adapt and change itself on the fly ...  without a programmer .. unless there were a couple hundred million ( at a minimum ) "IF this - THEN DO that " statements .. lol .. maybe one day ?

I can understand machines that play chess and backgammon ... robots ... etc ....

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2 hours ago, Jambo said:
The Machine Stops
The story describes a world in which most of the human population has lost the ability to live on the surface of the Earth. Each individual now lives in isolation below ground in a standard room, with all bodily and spiritual needs met by the omnipotent, global Machine.
Genre(s): Science fiction short story
Author: E. M. Forster
Publication date: November 1909
Published in: The Oxford and Cambridge Revi...
 
I had to study the above book a million years ago as it was prescribed reading for my O-Level English Language examination. In one major way it is no exaggeration to say it changed my life in so much that it was the catalyst for me changing from somebody who had never voluntarily read a book in his life to a confirmed and avid reader thereafter.
The genre is described as "science fiction" but E. M. Forster in 1909 describes many aspects of our life now which we take for granted. For instance, being able to see and talk to one another anywhere in the world using a "monitor" linked to the "The Machine" that quite literally runs the world.  
In the world he describes mankind is totally dependant on "The Machine" and has no need to travel, work or do anything other than exist as "The Machine" supplies and provides all nutritional needs etc. 
Infact, mankind has lost the ability to do virtually anything other than exist thanks to "The Machine."
Except, "The Machine" is self repairing and starts to go wrong. Quite simply what happens when The Machine's "self repairing" facility itself goes wrong and mankind has lost the ability to rectify the problem?
The answer is mankind goes down the shitter!
Every time I see virtually everybody in a room sitting down totally engrossed with the phone in their hand it reminds me of this prophetic novel by E. M.Forster and makes me wonder what the world will become in a hundred years time. A world very different from now and totally dependant upon technology and AI.
I am glad I will not be around.
 
 
 
 

Thanks for the "turn on" ... I am gonna try to find this book ... I think it would be a pretty good read ....

No way Bro would I ever go back to living in solitary like I was forced to live in the ADX (ADMAX) .. no fucking way ... just shoot me instead ...

I get the same "gringe" feeling when I see a couple sitting there eating dinner and both are totally consumed by their phones .... not talking to one another, and not smiling and laughing with each other .... girls in nightclubs totally infatuated with their phones .... you know exactly what I am saying ....

I taught Beach gal many years ago .. put your fucking phone away when we are together ... she is a great learner .. LOL

 

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18 minutes ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

Thanks for the "turn on" ... I am gonna try to find this book ... I think it would be a pretty good read ....

No way Bro would I ever go back to living in solitary like I was forced to live in the ADX (ADMAX) .. no fucking way ... just shoot me instead ...

I get the same "gringe" feeling when I see a couple sitting there eating dinner and both are totally consumed by their phones .... not talking to one another, and not smiling and laughing with each other .... girls in nightclubs totally infatuated with their phones .... you know exactly what I am saying ....

I taught Beach gal many years ago .. put your fucking phone away when we are together ... she is a great learner .. LOL

 

Thanks Jambo for the book recommendation. Code, Kindle version is only 99 cents on Amazon. Just ordered myself a copy.

https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Stops-M-Forster-ebook/dp/B003A83UCY/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1607059985&sr=1-1-spons

 

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5 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

I wrote so much LU6.2 communications code on AS/400s is was ridiculous .. it was a nice machine and believe it or not I still think RPG ( with subfiles ) was a pretty good language ...

i remember us going from a 35 to the as400 in 89,  was amazing

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12 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

I wrote so much LU6.2 communications code on AS/400s is was ridiculous .. it was a nice machine and believe it or not I still think RPG ( with subfiles ) was a pretty good language ...

The newest version (now RPGLE) is a very good language, but is starting to resemble COBOL more and more (long names, legible opcodes) 😉 The greatest improvement is formed by all the BIFs, making life so much easier.

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2 hours ago, Freee!! said:

The newest version (now RPGLE) is a very good language, but is starting to resemble COBOL more and more (long names, legible opcodes) 😉 The greatest improvement is formed by all the BIFs, making life so much easier.

LOL .. I was a huge fan of BITON and BITOFF ( semaphores ) in RPG .. very simple in my mind to drive the logic instead of indicators ....

I guess it is a remainder from all of the Assembler and microcode I have written ... I wrote a lot of DIBOL .. the Cobol version using Digital VAX machines . I didn't like .. to wordy ... verbose

I am more of a C#, .Net type of guy .. I get on with any version of C .....

The last time I wrote any code on a AS/400 interfacing to a whole bunch of RS/6000's was at Cathay Pacific in Hong Kong when they moved the airport ...  more than 15 years ago

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20 hours ago, fygjam said:

Can you imagine the DIY autonomous driving vehicle kit. It'll be a bit like teaching your girl friend/wife to drive but you don't get a root at the end of the lesson.

 

Never, Never, Ever try to teach your wife to drive.

I was on a loser from the start as when I left the house  in North London one Saturday morning to go out and buy my wife "Penny" a second hand car so she could learn to drive. The last thing she said to me was

"Try to find a red mini if you can."

I came back with an Austin Healey Sprite in British racing green with a soft top.

She took one look and shouted

"Why did you get that old banger?"

"This is a classic!" says I.

First ever lesson on the road when she was still not talking to me much was not a great success!!!!!!

After running through all the controls etc I said

"Left foot press down on the clutch, firsts gear, lift clutch gently whilst gentle pressure on the accelerator."

Success, and went down the road driving straight and managed to get into third gear.

"Anytime you want, just gently ease it to the left, changing down though the gears and come to a stop."

Long pause...........

"How do I do that?"

I can see traffic lights ahead and I do admit to raising my voice just a tab as I forsee disaster in about 30 seconds.

"Just BRAKE"

Which nearly put me into the wee windscreen and left the car stopped in the middle of the road, shortly followed by my wife getting out and storming up said road on foot leaving the drivers door wide open.

That was the one and only time I attempted to teach my wife to drive and the only time I ever heard her swear.

I did love driving that Sprite at the weekend instead of my awful company Morris Marina. 🤣

 

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36 minutes ago, Jambo said:

Never, Never, Ever try to teach your wife to drive.

I was on a loser from the start as when I left the house  in North London one Saturday morning to go out and buy my wife "Penny" a second hand car so she could learn to drive. The last thing she said to me was

"Try to find a red mini if you can."

I came back with an Austin Healey Sprite in British racing green with a soft top.

She took one look and shouted

"Why did you get that old banger?"

"This is a classic!" says I.

First ever lesson on the road when she was still not talking to me much was not a great success!!!!!!

After running through all the controls etc I said

"Left foot press down on the clutch, firsts gear, lift clutch gently whilst gentle pressure on the accelerator."

Success, and went down the road driving straight and managed to get into third gear.

"Anytime you want, just gently ease it to the left, changing down though the gears and come to a stop."

Long pause...........

"How do I do that?"

I can see traffic lights ahead and I do admit to raising my voice just a tab as I forsee disaster in about 30 seconds.

"Just BRAKE"

Which nearly put me into the wee windscreen and left the car stopped in the middle of the road, shortly followed by my wife getting out and storming up said road on foot leaving the drivers door wide open.

That was the one and only time I attempted to teach my wife to drive and the only time I ever heard her swear.

I did love driving that Sprite at the weekend instead of my awful company Morris Marina. 🤣

 

I take it you didn't get a root either?

 

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Beach gal still doesn't have a drivers license .. lol . lol

She always says to me ..  why ?  Makes me fucking laugh .. there is a reason I love this gal ... I don't argue with her about this .. because I think the same, but I do because it is one less thing I will get hassled for over here

I honestly don't think she will ever have a problem in the deep South ,,, plus, her Uncle is a colonel or something in the police down there ... I am cordial when I see him but I don't waste my time because I have never trusted a copper ... that is just me ...

But ... he did help me one time ... Beach gal and I were driving to Koi Chang ... got stopped at a roadblock .. copper ask me for my passport .. I told them I didn't have ... after Beach gal heard the copper say to me .. "we will take you to jail"  .. "I told him your are a punk .. he didn't understand  - do it" .. she got on the phone to her Uncle .. in less than a minute I was free to go ... I thanked her Uncle for that ...

Never .. ever try to teach a loved one to drive ... get or find a neutral party .... women get way to emotional ....

Edited by code_slayer_bkk
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On 12/3/2020 at 7:20 AM, code_slayer_bkk said:

I read a lot about AI .. learning machines .. but, there is a simple component I still don't get

You are telling me .. you write a piece of code and the machine is smart enough to adapt or change that piece of code ( without any programmers ) on its own .. learn to adapt ...

Some super smart fucks that wrote that initial piece of code to allow a machine to adapt and change that code as it learns more .. or AI is the wrong misnomer

No computer rewrites or enhances its code just yet. 

The term Artificial Intelligence is perhaps not the right term. 

I think Intelligent Automation is a better term to describe things like natural language processing (NLP), Robotic Process Automation (RPA) and the likes. 

The benefit is mostly in 1) smarter programming, 2) more data aka Big Data and 3) better processing power to process that data allowing computers to make certain decisions/interpretations through deep learning. 

Not sure if it could improve women's driving though 🙂

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20 hours ago, code_slayer_bkk said:

Never .. ever try to teach a loved one to drive ... get or find a neutral party .... women get way to emotional ....

You can say that again!

We were away on a short break to Bournemouth a lovely resort on the south coast of england.

We decided to play tennis on a public court where we could hire all the equipment. My wife still played netball at the weekends so was a competitive individual and I still played football at the time. Neither of us was much good at tennis although I had played at school.

We warmed up knocking the balls backwards and forwards and then decided to play a set. Well the idea was best of three.

I had the honor to serve first and probably hit the best and hardest serve I have ever made.

The ball kicked and flew just past Penny's right ear.

She looked at me and with a shout of

"Well, if that's how you want to play!"

Threw her tennis racket way over the fence and stormed out of the court.

I followed lamely afterwards and the guy in the hut, laughing his head off, shouted

"If that racket is broke you will have to pay for it mate!"

Add, don't play tennis with your wife to don't try to teach them to drive!  🤣

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