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The Derek Chauvin George Floyd Murder Trial.


Kathmandu
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^ Yes. If found guilty and sentenced to prison, loads of cops resign. If found not guilty and released, loads of rioting will ensue.

I think he's as guilty as sin. Floyd was handcuffed and in no need of restraint. He was also pleading for his life.

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14 minutes ago, Lantern said:

^ Yes. If found guilty and sentenced to prison, loads of cops resign. If found not guilty and released, loads of rioting will ensue.

I think he's as guilty as sin. Floyd was handcuffed and in no need of restraint. He was also pleading for his life.

Yeah, he was clearly dead before the EMT's arrived. Just look at the video.

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18 minutes ago, Lantern said:

I think he's as guilty as sin. Floyd was handcuffed and in no need of restraint. He was also pleading for his life.

I'm reminded of a line from an early episode of NCIS when it was mildly entertaining.

"If you're going to shoot him, do it while he's still running"

 

 

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I can't even follow it because I find the case so revolting. 

 

The pic of him kneeling on the guys neck is haunting. If I had been there when it happened I would have knocked that skinny armed fucks head clear off. 

Murder clear as day.

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At the moment the prosecution case is still ongoing.  They will probably present their best witnesses first, have less impactive evidence in the middle and finish with their most impactive evidence.  The defence roll at the moment is to challenge or rebut the evidence being presented by the prosecution.  So in terms of persuasion I would expect the prosecution to be 'in the lead' at this time.

 

Part of the defence case will rely on persuading the jury that the prevalent medical conditions the deceased had, coupled with the effects of unlawful drug and substance abuse were the contributory factors leading to death.  Much of this evidence will be matter of fact and time will tell how effective this defence is in convincing the jury.

 

Whilst rules of evidence are significantly different to those in UK, I was genuinely surprised as to how much evidence of opinion was allowed from non expert witnesses.  There also seems to be a lot of media coverage on US tv which is aiming to support the prosecution case and undermine the defence case.  One example of this was shortly after the defence introduced the effects of medical condition and drug use, the family of the deceased were having a press conference rebutting  this with the catch phrase of he was walking before he was arrested/detained.  The jury are instructed to disregard what they hear outside the court but in practice this is something rarely achieved.  Even some media commentators who are 'professionals' appear to be biased against the defendant in their comments.  I was also surprised that the authorities came to a multi million settlement with relatives of the deceased before this trial was completed.  To the man in the street, unaware of the differences in standard of proof in civil and criminal cases, this settlement could favour the Prosecution.  

 

My sympathies lie with the jurors who are in an impossible position.  They have a duty to evaluate and come to a verdict on the evidence they hear in court.  The consequences of both guilty and not guilty verdicts have been outlined by others above.  The level of intimidation, both direct and indirect,  on both jurors and witnesses is something we will probably never find out.

 

 

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Hope this topic stays up.....

As I’ve said before, I was appalled when I first saw the smartphone footage from onlookers. Then I saw a leaked bodycam video, which shows the police interaction from the beginning. Totally changed my viewpoint. While this footage has been mentioned on CNN, the bias from the anchors is so one sided......it’s unreal. Don Lemon in tears last night talking to a Harvard professor, why? They spoke to an MMA teacher about chokeholds, and yes he confirmed they can be deadly, but I’m not convinced the pressure on the neck killed him. He complained about  trouble breathing way before, and even his girlfriend admitted under oath about their shared opioid struggles.

Then you add his lengthy violent criminal record.....I’m just sick of this guy being painted as some innocent victim by the media. His estate got $27m, how much more needs to be done? There have been many other people, of different races, killed by police, who never got close to this kind of attention, but IMO deserved it more. 
 

And by the way, this all started over an Arab store owner calling police over a fake $20 bill.......
 

 

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1 hour ago, Golfingboy said:

 

 

And by the way, this all started over an Arab store owner calling police over a fake $20 bill.......
 

 

I have not followed all of the trial but what springs to mind is why he was pinned down by a knee across the neck for 9 minutes in response to the alleged  offence. 

The officer is being accused of 2 counts of murder and one count of manslaughter.  I have a feeling that he will be found guilty of the latter. 

Floyd was no angel, but that should not have any bearing on this arrest and he clearly stated that he could not breath. Looking at the footage inside the store, it seems clear to me that Floyd did not look like a man who was about to die anyway as has been claimed. So for me as an observer of the case, I believe that Floyd would not have died had he have not been pinned down with a knee across his neck for nine minutes. 

Putting aside the political ramifications of the trial, I would say that  the force used to detain him was excessive for any arrest of that nature and I wonder if that was standard police training? 

I suspect that if Chauvin is acquitted, then civil unrest will surely follow

I have no Police experience,and have only been arrested once in the UK, many years ago, but I would have thought that handcuffs and binding of the ankles would have been enough to detain him until back up arrived to take him Into Police custody

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Yes, please please try not to make this thread political which see's it get moved.

To me, thread's get moved and then pretty much die in the politics section when sometimes there is no need for them to get moved by the staff.  The Sarah Everard one for example, it was staff who started to take it down the politics route ffs, and then moved it and it died! 

Trigger happy, when it was them that caused it to go that route!

There's already a lack of content on the main board due to this ongoing covid shitstorm and lack of travel. 

Edited by Krapow
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1 hour ago, simon said:

Black man or white man if you resist arrest you will be pinned down in the U S A or UK. Family rewarded with 27 million dollars & George Floyd given a funeral as if he was a saint. This guy was a druggy & criminal. Not good that he died but the whole case is a joke IMHO. If this had been a white man that had died in this situation would there be a case like this, I doubt it.

Think it's the straw that broke the camels back regarding black people dying at the hands of white cop's. Been far too many and how often do they ever get punished for it?. 

It's the same as the Rodney King case, unnecessary violent treatment from police. You would have thought that they would have learned from that. 

 

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11 hours ago, Krapow said:

Yes, please please try not to make this thread political which see's it get moved.

To me, thread's get moved and then pretty much die in the politics section when sometimes there is no need for them to get moved by the staff.  The Sarah Everard one for example, it was staff who started to take it down the politics route ffs, and then moved it and it died! 

Trigger happy, when it was them that caused it to go that route!

There's already a lack of content on the main board due to this ongoing covid shitstorm and lack of travel. 

Don't know much about the Everard thread or how it went the route that it went. For the rest of your comment, I completely agree. This trial is 100 percent live via streaming or whatever. It's not much to ask one to watch and think of yourself as a juror. Use your critical thinking skills as you observe the testimony and video evidence. Wait for the defense to present their case.

Edited by Kathmandu
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The trial should have been moved. The city of Minneapolis should have waited until after the trial to award Floyd's family any civil damages. Getting $27 million dollars.....how can that NOT influence a jury before the first witness is even called?

Even though the coroner's report clearly showed the cause of death to George Floyd was not due to the knee to his neck, and which I'm sure the defense will cling tightly to, so as to create that "reasonable doubt" in the minds of the jury, the emotion is clearly with the prosecution's case, and with the certainty of violence and destruction in the streets of America's large metro areas if the jury was to return a not guilty verdict, or even a hung jury, Chauvin will be offered up as a sacrificial lamb in order to avoid any of that. 

Even if Chauvin had Atticus Finch defending him, I think he'll go down.

Don Lemon won't shed any tears.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Smooth said:

The trial should have been moved. The city of Minneapolis should have waited until after the trial to award Floyd's family any civil damages. Getting $27 million dollars.....how can that NOT influence a jury before the first witness is even called?

<snip>

Moved where?

nnn.JPG

source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/george-floyd-protests-maps-where-national-guard-curfews-us-a9545601.html

Edited by lazarus
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22 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

but I’m not convinced the pressure on the neck killed him. He complained about  trouble breathing way before

Then you add his lengthy violent criminal record.....I’m just sick of this guy being painted as some innocent victim by the media. 

I don't know where this will all go.

But if thats how Police treat people its way way out of line - Chauvin's Supervisor and other Senior Cops say that as well -

A week of compelling and potentially devastating testimony at Derek Chauvin's murder trial

The week concluded with potentially devastating testimony from the police department's most senior officer, who called Chauvin's actions on the day of Floyd's death "totally unnecessary."


Jurors heard for the first time that Chauvin actually knelt on Floyd for 9 minutes and 29 seconds -- not the 8 minutes 46 seconds that had became a symbol and rallying cry of a worldwide protest movement against police brutality.

Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell broke it down: 4 minutes and 45 seconds as Floyd cried out for help, 53 seconds as he flailed due to seizures, and 3 minutes and 51 seconds as Floyd was non-responsive.


Blackwell, in opening statements, said 9-2-9 were the "three most important numbers in this case." That was the time it took for Chauvin to squeeze "the very life" out of Floyd.

The revised time emerged from a review of officers' body cameras months after May 25, 2020, police encounter.

At Hennepin County Medical Center later that night, Chauvin for the first time told his supervisor, Sgt. David Pleoger that he had knelt on Floyd's neck, Pleoger testified.


Pleoger told the jury that Chauvin's use of force should have ended earlier.


"When Mr. Floyd was no longer offering up any resistance to the officers, they could have ended the restraint," he said.


"It would be reasonable to put a knee on someone's neck until they were not resisting anymore, but it should stop when they are no longer combative."

The prosecution said Chauvin pressed down on Floyd's neck and back for nearly 4 minutes during which Floyd was non-responsive.

A pair of Hennepin County paramedics who treated Floyd said he was unresponsive, not breathing and had no pulse when they arrived on the scene.


Paramedic Derek Smith checked Floyd's pulse and pupils, with Chauvin still kneeling on him. He believed Floyd's heart had stopped. One paramedic had to motion for Chauvin to lift his knee to lift Floyd onto a stretcher.

The final witness of the week was Lt. Richard Zimmerman, head of the homicide division for more than 12 years. He joined the department in 1985, making him the most senior officer on the force.


Zimmerman said Chauvin's actions after Floyd was handcuffed and in a prone position were "uncalled for" and "totally unnecessary."


The former's officers handling of the encounter violated department use of force policy, according to Zimmerman.


Asked by prosecutor Matthew Frank if he was ever trained to kneel on a person, Zimmerman said no.
"Because if your knee is on someone's neck -- that could kill them," the lieutenant said.

Coates said Zimmerman provided the "most compelling law enforcement testimony" in the trial so far. She called it "damning."


"It blows out of the water any notion that the officer was trained to sustain this level of force on somebody once they were no longer posing any conceivable threat," she said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-trial-weekly-wrap/index.html

Edited by Zeb
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22 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

Then you add his lengthy violent criminal record.....

I have no dog in this 'fight' but the cops response seem way way over the top.

I went looking for more information about lengthy violent criminal record.....

This -

While Floyd had served time in prison for aggravated robbery, and it is unknown if Chauvin knew this as he detained him, video footage of the arrest shows that Floyd was not behaving violently towards the police, nor was he armed or suspected of a violent crime.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379395/Trump-supporting-Minneapolis-police-federation-leader-calls-George-Floyd-violent-criminal.html

There may be other takes on this of course.

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10 minutes ago, Zeb said:

I have no dog in this 'fight' but the cops response seem way way over the top.

I went looking for more information about lengthy violent criminal record.....

This -

While Floyd had served time in prison for aggravated robbery, and it is unknown if Chauvin knew this as he detained him, video footage of the arrest shows that Floyd was not behaving violently towards the police, nor was he armed or suspected of a violent crime.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379395/Trump-supporting-Minneapolis-police-federation-leader-calls-George-Floyd-violent-criminal.html

There may be other takes on this of course.

Even if he had a previous record of violence he was not acting violent at the time, so didn't deserve the nearly 10 minutes of restraint. 

I have been arrested a fair few times in the past so have experience of British police behaviour. Nowadays they are generally a lot less heavy handed in the street than they were as it's too easy to get caught, CCTV and people filming it. 

In the past you would get a hiding in the cells back at the nick as well. 

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6 hours ago, galenkia said:

I have been arrested a fair few times in the past so have experience of British police behaviour. Nowadays they are generally a lot less heavy handed in the street than they were as it's too easy to get caught, CCTV and people filming it. 

In the past you would get a hiding in the cells back at the nick as well. 

That was very common in my area too!

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4 hours ago, Jambo said:

I was arrested once in my life after stopping a little late at a pedestrian controlled set of traffic lights. I was four points over the drink driving limit and lost my license for a year.

In court the police officer who did me lied about supposedly following me for a mile and observing me "swerving violently" to avoid parked cars. Why did he have to do that and lie when my ban was automatic given the blood test?

He turned out to be a neighbor of mine living in the same road as me in Whetstone, North London.  One evening coming home tired from work after using a variety of public transport I found him up the top of a ladder painting his window frames. He saw me and actually remembered my name when he looked at me and said a greeting. I looked up at him on top of the ladder, stopped, shook my head and said

"Don't fucking tempt me!" which was our last ever conversation. 😒

Whetstone !!! ...... posh part of North London not quite Arsene Wenger Totteridge but ...... 

Knocking Plod off the ladder would be a bit much but a late night bottle of black spray paint and stripper over the downstairs window frames and superglued locks job done Danny.

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This cop is going to be railroaded regardless if he is innocent or guilty. They simply have to find him guilty because of all the shit that will happen if he is left off. The politicians will gladly throw him under the bus.

I think we can agree that this criminal doper was no loss to society. Giving his family that huge settlement tells the tale what the trial verdict will be.

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