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The Derek Chauvin George Floyd Murder Trial.


Kathmandu

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1 hour ago, Gary said:

This cop is going to be railroaded regardless if he is innocent or guilty. They simply have to find him guilty because of all the shit that will happen if he is left off. The politicians will gladly throw him under the bus.

I think we can agree that this criminal doper was no loss to society. Giving his family that huge settlement tells the tale what the trial verdict will be.

Just because he has convictions don't mean he can't have justice or it's acceptable for a cop to do that to him. And I don't think people can dispute the evidence, it's clear as day. 

Nobody is being railroaded, that cop deserves to be on trial. 

The last thing we need is cop's having free reign to be above the law. And many people will back cop's no matter what. Just look at the Sarah Everard example. 

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A lot of US cops think they are arrestor, judge, jury & executioner.

Statistically, people of color receive a disproportionate amount of negligent treatment by the police.

Has to stop. Regardless of the perp and what they have done.

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32 minutes ago, Kathmandu said:

Nope "mechanical asphyxiation". That's a knee to the neck. 

Medical Examiner's Autopsy Reveals George Floyd Had Positive Test For Coronavirus

June 4, 20206:27 AM ET

SCOTT NEUMAN

Evan Vucci/AP

A full autopsy report on George Floyd, the man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police last month, reveals that he was positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The 20-page report also indicates that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.

In video taken by bystanders, Floyd, 46, is shown repeatedly pleading that he cannot breathe as he is held down with a knee on his neck by former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin, with three other officers present. The incident has sparked nationwide — and even worldwide — protests.

Floyd's death has been ruled a homicide.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

This medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation. However, according to prosecutors, in charging documents filed last week, early results "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

The medical examiner's report also details blunt-force injuries to the skin of Floyd's head, face and upper lip, as well as the shoulders, hands and elbows and bruising of the wrists consistent with handcuffs.

Signed by Dr. Andrew M. Baker, it says Floyd had tested positive for the novel coronavirus on April 3. A post-mortem nasal swab confirmed that diagnosis. The report notes that because a positive result for coronavirus can persist for weeks after the disease has resolved, "the result most likely reflects asymptomatic but persistent ... positivity from previous infection."

In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.

Floyd also had heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell trait — a mostly asymptomatic form of the more serious sickle cell disease, an inherited blood disorder that primarily affects African Americans.

On Wednesday, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison announced upgraded charges of second-degree unintentional murder against Chauvin. The charge carries a maximum penalty of 40 years in prison.

"To the Floyd family, to our beloved community, and everyone that is watching, I say: George Floyd mattered. He was loved. His life was important. His life had value. We will seek justice for him and for you and we will find it," Ellison said in announcing the new charges on television.

Three other officers at the scene were charged for the first time on Wednesday with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

 

 

It's the highlighted portions I was referring to and which the defense team will attempt to sway the jury to have reasonable doubt as to Chauvin's guilt. Personally, I think he's toast.

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1 hour ago, Kathmandu said:

I think this case is a "slam-dunk" for the prosecution, and I think that Chauvin is looking at 40 years. He'll probably do 10, then released.

No......he will be sentenced to less than 10, and serve 3, if any time at all. 
The most I’ve heard a cop getting is in South Carolina, I believe, he shot a 50 year old man in the back and the witness video showed he lied about the whole thing. Believe he got 20 years. 
 

I’m all for trigger happy cops getting the book thrown at them, but like I’ve said, this is far from the most clear cut case of homicide by police, many others have been killed and the officer not been punished, and worse yet, kept their job. 
 

The difference now, is the Floyd case has received SO much attention, and citizens & media alike are SO distraught by this death........it will get very ugly, whatever the outcome, as was posted above. If Chauvin gets substantial jail time, cops will be furious and change how they serve the public. If he walks free, well.......I’m sorry to say, thousands of Americans will be getting their Christmas shopping done early again this year, and not paying for the gifts

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'thousands of Americans will be getting their Christmas shopping done early again this year, and not paying for the gifts' 

Really, why would people riot and loot innocent businesses, many owned by black people, rather than peacefully protest at an unjust verdict? 

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9 minutes ago, biggles said:

'thousands of Americans will be getting their Christmas shopping done early again this year, and not paying for the gifts' 

Really, why would people riot and loot innocent businesses, many owned by black people, rather than peacefully protest at an unjust verdict? 

It will be another Rodney King if he gets off. 

This is way too big to sweep under the carpet.The people have had enough of loose cannon cop's getting away with shit without consequences.Police worldwide will be dealing with the outcome. 

Add in the lockdowns and state control increasing and it's a powder keg. 

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Legal wrangling continues

These discussion is not taking place in front of a jury - meaning it is not evidence.

The judge is warning that opinions about the use of force may become inadmissible if more witnesses continue to give them.

Last week, a number of witnesses said they did not agree with the use of force against George Floyd.

He wants upcoming experts to stick to the facts of what they train, rather than say what they feel about the case.   (Sky News feed).

 

Perhaps first ground for appeal if the defendant is found guilty.  Has the inclusion of evidence of opinion from non expert witnesses gone too far?

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Galenkia, I agree with your thoughts on what will happen but my question was WHY?

What is it about rioting and looting innocent business owners that shows empathy-sympathy for Floyd, who they also believe to be an innocent victim? Why isnt a peaceful mass protest enough to get their message across? We see this often. 

Edited by biggles
Typo
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23 hours ago, biggles said:

thousands of Americans will be getting their Christmas shopping done early again this year, and not paying for the gifts

They will loot a store bare, with the exception of fathers day cards...

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Police chief: Use of force is dependent on subject's conduct, not anyone else's 

 

 

The prosecutor asked Arradondo to read aloud the guidelines officers follow to determine reasonable use of force in reference to the Graham vs. Connor case, which states that officers should determine the proper level of use of force based these factors: 

  • The severity of the crime at issue. 
  • Whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the officers or others. 
  • Whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.

Arradondo then explained to the prosecutor that George Floyd's alleged offense was not a crime that a subject is typically taken into custody for because it is not considered a violent felony. 

He added, that whether or not a felony is considered violent is an important consideration when taking a subject into custody because "it can certainly endanger not only the officers, but also the community."

 

The above is copied from the CNN which @lazarus kindly linked above.

Going back to the 1970 s in UK, stores employed what were termed store detectives.  They were civilians who worked in plain clothes who walked around the store and observed suspects stealing from the store.  Critically the store detective would then detain suspected persons and take them to a private office, pending the arrival of the police.  In that era, suspects were generally compliant and it was often possible to detain suspects without the use of any force.  The police attended and where appropriate arrested the suspect(s) who were taken to a police station, where they were formally interviewed and subsequently charged, summonsed, cautioned or released without charge.

 

Roll on the clock to the present time; a significant proportion of suspects (shoplifters) are either drunk, affected by drug use or suffering from various forms of mental illness and in recent times these suspects are more likely to resist and fight back.  Despite this shoplifting became perceived as a non violent crime and in consequence police response time became longer causing the stores more problems in detaining and retaining suspects for the police.

 

Now store detectives rarely detain shoplifters; they rely on capturing events of theft on CCTV which they record and forward to the police to investigate.  Historically the detection rates for shoplifting was high (usually over 90%); now it is relatively low.  

 

What has this to do with this trial?  My point is that if it becomes much more difficult and problematic for police (or indeed private security staff) to detain criminals, then they will stop doing so, giving a green light for an increase in so called low level non violent crime, now called volume crime, to which the authorities by and large turn a blind eye to.  Since 'we' all pay for crime through increased prices and insurance premiums this increase affects all of us.  If the defendant is this case is convicted and imprisoned then my submission is that police will be reluctant to tackle criminals on the streets, a course of action which is not in anyone's best interests.

 

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On 4/4/2021 at 2:27 AM, Zeb said:

I went looking for more information about lengthy violent criminal record.....

Below is a list of the nine convictions against George Floyd in Harris County, Texas.  It's not his entire criminal record, only the crimes for which he has been tried and convicted.  He has been arrested many other times in Texas, but no charges were filed or the charges were dropped before trial.

George Floyd.JPG

Source:  Harris County Clerk's Office

It's still unclear how many times he was arrested in Minnesota, but there was at least one occasion in 2019 that had similarities with the encounter that cost him his life.  In both videos, Floyd acts in the same manner:  weeping, begging, refusing to obey police orders, etc.  He didn't resist violently in 2019, though.

It's a bit of a mystery why there are no public records of this incident in Hennepin County, MInnesota.  Apparently Floyd was never processed at the county jail after the arrest, nor was the incident brought to the attention of the county DA for prosecution, even though Floyd had resisted arrest and been found in possession of narcotics.  He failed to put his hands on the dash because he was swallowing Percocet tablets.  EP EDIT IN:  The version of the YouTube video of 2019 arrest that  I had first uploaded was been taken down for an unknown reason.  Luckily I found another version.

Percocet is a heavy-duty pain killer, a combination of oxycodone and the active ingredient in Tylenol.  It's normally given to post-surgery patients to relieve medium to severe pain.  I was once prescribed Percocet after release from the hospital following an operation on my knee.  The first tablet I took had me completely stoned.  I called the emergency number on the bottle because the reaction was so strong.  The person who took the call said the reaction was normal for people who are unused to pain killers.  George Floyd is supposed to have swallowed eight Percocet tablets that day!  He was a big guy, six-foot-seven and 210 lbs, but eight tablets at once!  I can only imagine the effect.  :default_crazy:  

Evil

Edited by Evil Penevil
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It's also a mystery why George Floyd got such a light sentence (five years in prison) for the home invasion robbery in 2007, especially since he pressed a gun to the belly of the woman in the house and threatened to shoot her.  She was pistol  whipped by one of the other five guys in the home invasion crew.  That type of crime normally carries a sentence of about 20 years in the U.S.  He served only about 2.5 years of the sentence before he was paroled.

More details here:  

Indictment for the 2007 Home Invasion Robbery
2009 Judgment of Conviction

It's really important to go to the original sources whenever possible as there is so much false information on the Net about the George Floyd case.

The crucial point that may come out at trial is whether Chauvin and the other officers were aware of George Floyd's record of criminality and drug abuse in Minnesota and Texas when they arrested him in 2020.  That could explain some of Chauvin's aggressiveness.  It doesn't justify kneeling on George Floyd's neck after he was in handcuffs, but it could be a mitigating factor for the jury.

George Floyd has been portrayed by BLM's as an "innocent victim" of police brutality and racism. That's certainly not the case.  The corner where the store was located was well known as a place to buy drugs.  The store itself was noted for buying and selling stolen cell phones and computers.  If Floyd hadn't gone to that store, if he hadn't tried to buy cigarettes with a counterfeit bill and if he had obeyed the cops' orders to sit in the squad car, he would probably be alive today.

George Floyd is the wrong guy to use as a poster boy for BLM.

Evil

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3 hours ago, biggles said:

Galenkia, I agree with your thoughts on what will happen but my question was WHY?

What is it about rioting and looting innocent business owners that shows empathy-sympathy for Floyd, who they also believe to be an innocent victim? Why isnt a peaceful mass protest enough to get their message across? We see this often. 

You might read this ...

Why People Loot
On who looters are, what they want, and why some protests are more likely to include them

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/why-people-loot/612577/

"...Police leaders generally agree that only a small percentage of the protesters are looting, but the practice is still undeniably widespread..."

"... Any time large groups of angry people gather spontaneously, property damage is common. Most race scholars argue that unprovoked police violence against both black people and peaceful protesters is the larger societal problem, and no amount of stolen merchandise will ever equal the loss of even a single human life. Still, “the looting that takes place in these situations is usually interpreted as evidence of human depravity,” the sociologists Russell Dynes and E. L. Quarantelli wrote in their seminal study on looting in 1968, another year in which protests resulted in widespread property damage and death. The sentiment in some corners seems to be, If only they would just march peacefully, and not loot, we’d be fine with this..."

 

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On 4/3/2021 at 8:31 AM, Lantern said:

^ Yes. If found guilty and sentenced to prison, loads of cops resign. If found not guilty and released, loads of rioting will ensue.

I think he's as guilty as sin. Floyd was handcuffed and in no need of restraint. He was also pleading for his life.

I totally agree

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Does anyone think that piece of shit criminal was worth 27 million dollars? The people who made that decision are obviously insane. Of course the taxpayers have no say in that insane judgement.

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13 minutes ago, Gary said:

Does anyone think that piece of shit criminal was worth 27 million dollars? The people who made that decision are obviously insane. Of course the taxpayers have no say in that insane judgement.

Yes they do. The 'tax payers' elected the people who made the decision.

"The Minneapolis City Council approved Friday a $27 million civil settlement with the family of George Floyd over the Black man's death in police custody last year. The city council voted 13-0 to approve the settlement, which directs $500,000 to be used to benefit the George Floyd Memorial site at 38th and Chicago..."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-city-minneapolis-settlement-27-million/

 

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8 minutes ago, fygjam said:

I'd say the Minneapolis City Council had legal advice that they could be looking at a "sky's the limit" payment if it went to court.

 

The US has serious problems with police misconduct. Paying for their crimes is a band aid for constructively addressing the situation. There is a lack of training, over emphasis on force, and a general "us v. them" attitude in many departments.

Cities Spend Millions On Police Misconduct Every Year. Here’s Why It’s So Difficult to Hold Departments Accountable.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/police-misconduct-costs-cities-millions-every-year-but-thats-where-the-accountability-ends/

"...As the country has witnessed episode after episode of police abuse, holding police officers accountable for misconduct has become an urgent issue. But despite increased attention, it’s still rare for police officers to face criminal prosecution. That leaves civil lawsuits as victims’ primary route for seeking legal redress and financial compensation when a police encounter goes wrong. The resulting settlements can be expensive for the city, which is generally on the hook for the payouts (meaning ultimately, most are subsidized by taxpayers), and those costs can encourage cities to make broader changes..."

. . .

 

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I have been catching pieces of the live courtroom proceedings and will go out shortly for breakfast and coffee to see some in a minute.

The image that gets me is when people are screaming at Chauvin that you are killing this man, the smug look on his face just irks the shit out of me! Hard to imagine that he actually thought knowing full well that people are filming this, that he was going to try to say his actions were justifiable. 

I hope this guy gets a long prison sentence and as far as the 3 other guys, they should do time too. 

Dark day in America again...wifey was appalled at seeing this and asked me if this happens alot in America? I told her sadly yes. 

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2 hours ago, lazarus said:

Yes they do. The 'tax payers' elected the people who made the decision.

"The Minneapolis City Council approved Friday a $27 million civil settlement with the family of George Floyd over the Black man's death in police custody last year. The city council voted 13-0 to approve the settlement, which directs $500,000 to be used to benefit the George Floyd Memorial site at 38th and Chicago..."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-city-minneapolis-settlement-27-million/

 

And if any one of them had voted against either the settlement itself, or agreed to a settlement but at a much lower amount, their names would have been plastered all over the news and their homes would have been the site of protests, probably their place of employment, assuming a city council position isn't a full time job, and they would have suffered social media harassment and whatever else the mob could drum up.

But with the makeup of the city, there were probably no reservations at the amount. Besides, the city was going to save a whole bunch of money from defunding the law enforcement budget.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Smooth said:

And if any one of them had voted against either the settlement itself, or agreed to a settlement but at a much lower amount, their names would have been plastered all over the news and their homes would have been the site of protests, probably their place of employment, assuming a city council position isn't a full time job, and they would have suffered social media harassment and whatever else the mob could drum up.

But with the makeup of the city, there were probably no reservations at the amount. Besides, the city was going to save a whole bunch of money from defunding the law enforcement budget.

Minneapolis is a progressive city. Lawmakers represented their contingency fairly.

The officer murdered Floyd. Maybe other officers will use more thoughtful restraint in the future for minor offenses.

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