Thailand Banks are going to collapse?

[KWA]

22 hours ago, tko said:

Kasikorn still has the out of province fee.  TW got hit with it last week up country.

I'm with Bangkok Bank but thought the change was a Thai Bankers' Association one - obviously not.

[tommy dee]

with kasioorn i only bank online, and no fees for transfers.  ( business account)

[AussieBob]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:24 AM, AJSP said:

I’ve now set up K Bank on my phone which is great and a load of places accept this Method of of payment - just scan the barcode et voila 

Dont lose your phone, or have it stolen. If you do, then take card and book into the branch asap.

[AJSP]

13 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Dont lose your phone, or have it stolen. If you do, then take card and book into the branch asap.

My wife said exactly the same thing. My phone is password protected by my thumb print whilst never 100% it does give a level of security 

[AussieBob]

57 minutes ago, AJSP said:

My wife said exactly the same thing. My phone is password protected by my thumb print whilst never 100% it does give a level of security 

Good to hear - iPhones are far more 'secure' than any Android device. It amazes me that some people use their phones for banking, with very little regard for what happens if they lose it - and zero planning for what to do when it happens.  The things is that we all lose our phones now and then - mine was once in the car under the seat for over a day. Imagine carrying around all your money in a wallet - that is what so many people are doing with their phones.  Unlike the ATM card that can only be used at an ATM or EftPos, the phone has all your bank account details - same as it logging in when you are on a PC. That is what phones do - they are not an ATM card - they are an 'instant' online payment method up to a certain amount. I worked in IT for over 30 years - I will never use a phone for banking - even though it is an iPhone. Nor will the wife. 

[fygjam]

I worked in IT for over 45 years - I will never use a phone for banking.

I will never use an iPhone for anything!

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by fygjam

[tommy dee]

just checked SCB account i use.  its a personal account.  last month over 40 transactions, all over the country.  NO FEES taken

 

to be fair a small fee, 10 baht would be fine by me as personal accounts actually are hated by all banks unless overdrawn and paying.  and of course WE cant do that

[Smiler]

I now use 2 phones. One has my Thai Bank, Revolut and Wise Apps on it. The only time I connect to the net to use them is at home, where I know the connection and network is secure. The phone stays in the house in a safe place. 

The other is for everyday use (like posting on here right now 😁). I also have True Money Wallet on it which I am using more and more when in Thailand. Can't remember the last time I paid cash in 7 or Lotus's etc. It was worth the hassle IMHO to set it up. Always have cash as a backup of course because not everywhere accepts TMW and occasionally there is no net. 

[Nickrock]

3 hours ago, tommy dee said:

just checked SCB account i use.  its a personal account.  last month over 40 transactions, all over the country.  NO FEES taken

 

to be fair a small fee, 10 baht would be fine by me as personal accounts actually are hated by all banks unless overdrawn and paying.  and of course WE cant do that

Was that the Royal WE you do travel in loftier circles than us plebs

[tommy dee]

2 hours ago, Nickrock said:

Was that the Royal WE you do travel in loftier circles than us plebs

we as non thais.. but yes you are a pleb

[AussieBob]

21 hours ago, Smiler said:

I now use 2 phones. One has my Thai Bank, Revolut and Wise Apps on it. The only time I connect to the net to use them is at home, where I know the connection and network is secure. The phone stays in the house in a safe place. 

The other is for everyday use (like posting on here right now 😁). I also have True Money Wallet on it which I am using more and more when in Thailand. Can't remember the last time I paid cash in 7 or Lotus's etc. It was worth the hassle IMHO to set it up. Always have cash as a backup of course because not everywhere accepts TMW and occasionally there is no net. 

The only down side to my method is if someone breaks in and steals my laptop, but you have that covered by storing the phone you use for banking.  Good thinking, especially in Thailand.  I think I will use one of my spare laptops for banking and tuck it away when not in use.

Good idea to have a simple limited app on a phone to use for the small stuff - I will look into that when we move to Thailand.  

One thing I also do is use a separate accounts/banks for all the direct debit transactions. Each month I put into one account enough to cover the small direct debits (insurance etc.). I use another one for two for any large direct debit payments (I have 7 bank accounts).  That paid off big time when the company managing a rental payment failed to stop trying to take out the monthly payment after the deal was closed (I had stopped putting money in there). They kept sending emails demanding payment as their request had been rejected. It was after 3 months of failing to withdraw funds at a total of over $6000 that they stopped attempting withdrawals. Apologies etc etc (admin errors) but that would have been a big problem if I had not stopped putting in funds.  Also, I never use direct debits to a credit card - so many things can and do go wrong - like some numpty in admin adding an extra zero.

Here in Australia we are covered under banking rules and regs - you will get most funds refunded if something happens (after complex claim processes).  But in Thailand the banks follow their own rules and refunds are very hard to get - according to mates and forums. 

That above is the reason in another post I was asking for info on Thai banks that do not charge an annual fee for an ATM card.  Whilst here bank accounts are free (by law) in Thailand they charge for what should be free - so 7 bank accounts aint really a viable option. 

 

[boydeste]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

The only down side to my method is if someone breaks in and steals my laptop, but you have that covered by storing the phone you use for banking.  Good thinking, especially in Thailand.  I think I will use one of my spare laptops for banking and tuck it away when not in use.

Good idea to have a simple limited app on a phone to use for the small stuff - I will look into that when we move to Thailand.  

One thing I also do is use a separate accounts/banks for all the direct debit transactions. Each month I put into one account enough to cover the small direct debits (insurance etc.). I use another one for two for any large direct debit payments (I have 7 bank accounts).  That paid off big time when the company managing a rental payment failed to stop trying to take out the monthly payment after the deal was closed (I had stopped putting money in there). They kept sending emails demanding payment as their request had been rejected. It was after 3 months of failing to withdraw funds at a total of over $6000 that they stopped attempting withdrawals. Apologies etc etc (admin errors) but that would have been a big problem if I had not stopped putting in funds.  Also, I never use direct debits to a credit card - so many things can and do go wrong - like some numpty in admin adding an extra zero.

Here in Australia we are covered under banking rules and regs - you will get most funds refunded if something happens (after complex claim processes).  But in Thailand the banks follow their own rules and refunds are very hard to get - according to mates and forums. 

That above is the reason in another post I was asking for info on Thai banks that do not charge an annual fee for an ATM card.  Whilst here bank accounts are free (by law) in Thailand they charge for what should be free - so 7 bank accounts aint really a viable option. 

 

You don't have to have a bank card with every account. Given how you seem to operate, you will only need the one. Also the one you use can have shopping disabled so that it can only be used in the ATM.

[AussieBob]

14 hours ago, boydeste said:

You don't have to have a bank card with every account. Given how you seem to operate, you will only need the one. Also the one you use can have shopping disabled so that it can only be used in the ATM.

Thanks - I did not know that. Last time I opened 2 bank accounts in Thailand (still have one of them) they both gave me an ATM card - without saying it was an option. I assumed (mistake) that it was free (like here) but then I noticed an 'annual charge' on the account - when I rang they said it was for the ATM card - but they never said it was optional - I put it down to TiT and let it go. 

Interesting - I will have to think about the options again - especially if as advised by others, that I can go into any branch across the country (with book) and both withdraw cash and sort any issues out while there.  That the Thai banks dont provide free ATM cards is clearly a scam - but we all know what living in Thailand is like. 

Regarding the OP and the issue of Thai Banks viability, I note that S&P and Moody's have both downgraded ratings for the Thai banks - but they are basically BBB, so they are still seen as 'OK' - not AAA like Aust, Sweden and USA, but OK.  The decline is seen by all the pundits as 'natural' due to the current economic problems worldwide.  IMO the covid and now Ukraine economic impacts have to a large extent hidden the underlying problems that the Thai banks have, but which are not globally recognised (same as in China).  The economic problems will all fade away in time, but the underlying problems will still be there - massive amounts of highly leveraged over-valued assets from decades of bad debts from inappropriate lending practices.  I do understand why most people think I am wrong, and of course I could well be wrong, but I do recall things as they were before all collapses - no pundits or experts knew it was going to happen. I learned that lesson many years ago when as a young sales guy I was waiting to see an Exec in a bank first thing in the morning. On the table was that day's Aust Financial Review - both that paper and the Exec and his staff were very upbeat and positive about the economy.  Later that day on the car's radio I heard that there was a collapse of the Aust stock market - the 1981 recession had started.  

[Trip]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:55 AM, Smiler said:

I now use 2 phones. One has my Thai Bank, Revolut and Wise Apps on it. The only time I connect to the net to use them is at home, where I know the connection and network is secure. The phone stays in the house in a safe place. 

The other is for everyday use (like posting on here right now 😁). I also have True Money Wallet on it which I am using more and more when in Thailand. Can't remember the last time I paid cash in 7 or Lotus's etc. It was worth the hassle IMHO to set it up. Always have cash as a backup of course because not everywhere accepts TMW and occasionally there is no net. 

Any update on how common phone payments are in Thailand today?

[SteveBC]

53 minutes ago, Trip said:

Any update on how common phone payments are in Thailand today?

Mr. Trip,

             I encounter people doing it most everyday, which is fine when they know how to do it, unfortunately many do not and spend 10 minutes getting it to connect / work....

All 7/11's and the like accept it, Lotus, Big C, Makro, Cental, Terminal 21 etc. Many many places.

Personally i prefer cash, but that's just me being a traditionalist......

[Stillearly]

5 hours ago, Trip said:

Any update on how common phone payments are in Thailand today?

I was using them a lot on my last trip , especially in bars and restaurants using the QR codes to make a payment,  also recently used it from the U.K. to pay a deposit on a Pattaya hotel for an upcoming trip 

[Trip]

4 hours ago, SteveBC said:

Mr. Trip,

             I encounter people doing it most everyday, which is fine when they know how to do it, unfortunately many do not and spend 10 minutes getting it to connect / work....

All 7/11's and the like accept it, Lotus, Big C, Makro, Cental, Terminal 21 etc. Many many places.

Personally i prefer cash, but that's just me being a traditionalist......

Me too

[eyes4thais]

Can someone tell me how the bank operate if they repossess a house?

My girlfriend sister borrowed 1m B from a bank and gave deeds to a 4mb house.

Business went tits up and did not pay load for 4months. 

In the UK the bank would reposes the house and then sell on open market. Once sold it would take out all there fees and return any surplus to the original owner.

How does it work in Thailand?

I'm told the bank takes the house, sells it and keeps the whole lot!  

[tko]

8 hours ago, eyes4thais said:

How does it work in Thailand?

I'm told the bank takes the house, sells it and keeps the whole lot! 

That's what TW thinks as well.

[Zambo]

15 minutes ago, tko said:

That's what TW thinks as well.

In Pattaya and surrounding areas there will be no surplus. The bank will sell when an offer comes in that meets their requirement.

[Yesitisdakid]

Thailand Banks are going to collapse?

Hope not

[Glasseye]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:46 AM, AussieBob said:

Thanks - I did not know that. Last time I opened 2 bank accounts in Thailand (still have one of them) they both gave me an ATM card - without saying it was an option. I assumed (mistake) that it was free (like here) but then I noticed an 'annual charge' on the account - when I rang they said it was for the ATM card - but they never said it was optional - I put it down to TiT and let it go. 

Interesting - I will have to think about the options again - especially if as advised by others, that I can go into any branch across the country (with book) and both withdraw cash and sort any issues out while there.  That the Thai banks dont provide free ATM cards is clearly a scam - but we all know what living in Thailand is like. 

Regarding the OP and the issue of Thai Banks viability, I note that S&P and Moody's have both downgraded ratings for the Thai banks - but they are basically BBB, so they are still seen as 'OK' - not AAA like Aust, Sweden and USA, but OK.  The decline is seen by all the pundits as 'natural' due to the current economic problems worldwide.  IMO the covid and now Ukraine economic impacts have to a large extent hidden the underlying problems that the Thai banks have, but which are not globally recognised (same as in China).  The economic problems will all fade away in time, but the underlying problems will still be there - massive amounts of highly leveraged over-valued assets from decades of bad debts from inappropriate lending practices.  I do understand why most people think I am wrong, and of course I could well be wrong, but I do recall things as they were before all collapses - no pundits or experts knew it was going to happen. I learned that lesson many years ago when as a young sales guy I was waiting to see an Exec in a bank first thing in the morning. On the table was that day's Aust Financial Review - both that paper and the Exec and his staff were very upbeat and positive about the economy.  Later that day on the car's radio I heard that there was a collapse of the Aust stock market - the 1981 recession had started.  

 

You made some valid points Bob in all of your posts. The security component is something that has to be revisited from time to time and it can be easy to fall into a false sense of security, or laziness. I am constantly working on trying to stay on top of things regarding transfers and banking in general. It ain't easy.

On the surface things can seem to work smoothly, and can be that way for years. Then out of nowhere you can find yourself in the middle of a massive cluster f**k. Not just from the hackers out there but from the banks (not all of them) themselves. I would suggest to anyone in here to do some googling regarding the years of criminal activity a certain U.S. bank has been involved in (initials W.F.) it enough to make your head spin. Also check out recent massive fraud that has been occurring with the transfer service Zelle. A couple of real horror stories.

 

 A few key things I have learned with relocating over here and banking.

- IMO several accounts is a good thing, although they need to be managed properly (keep an eye on them).

- Keep your balances low.

- Thai banking laws are intertwined with U.S. (and probably U.K. banking, tax laws and treaties). Opening more than one account with some Thai banks can be problematic. Don't assume anything.

- What is working well for you today, may not be the case tomorrow.

- Diversify your funds. Don't take insurance for granted, stay constantly involved with reviewing and updating. Do as much research as possible.

- Keep ALL of your documents and stay organized with them. Keep them organized.

- It is a good idea to have one or two accounts shared. In the event you can't move money for some reason, maybe the person you share the account with can get the money to you.

- Never stop asking questions.

 

 

[Bernie Num Nums]

When the Thai government started demanding Farang put ฿800,000 in the bank to qualify for a retirement visa I stopped trusting the whole banking system in Thailand. I'd rather pay transfer fees (there are ways around this) than let these corrupt bastards hang on to my hard earned.

[Pumpuynarak]

1 minute ago, Bernie Num Nums said:

When the Thai government started demanding Farang put ฿800,000 in the bank to qualify for a retirement visa I stopped trusting the whole banking system in Thailand. I'd rather pay transfer fees (there are ways around this) than let these corrupt bastards hang on to my hard earned.

Not to mention the interest rates currently being offered by UK banks for money on deposit. When you compare the rates with the Thai banks its a no brainer. Like you i would never do the 800K but some retirees like because its relatively easy to comply with the retirement extension requirements as opposed to the perception that the 65K monthly income is a bit of a PITA, i say ''perception'' because i've been doing the income method for 16 years and never had a problem, its easy peasy imo.....

[tko]

In my case, because I have high blood pressure controlled with a daily pill the insurance companies here won't cover me for anything heart or circulatory system related.  So I self insure and keep several million in Thai banks.  That makes the retirement extension easy.

I have no idea why someone wouldn't trust Thai banks just because the government wants retirees to prove either through deposit or transfers that they can afford to live here.