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Thailand Banks are going to collapse?


AussieBob

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39 minutes ago, Glasseye said:

 

*** Regarding transfers for immigration "income requirements" (Thailand) - monthly direct deposits of at least 65,000 baht (or more) ---   3rd party transfers (such as Wise) may not be considered "acceptable" from the Thai authorities.

 

There is a code (recorded on each transfer) that they will look at. Direct bank to bank "wire" transfers should have the proper code (not sure about ACH transfers though). However, 3rd party transfers (such as Wise, Zelle, etc.) may not be. Important to check with your bank in order to make sure you are using the proper transfer method in order to satisfy this requirement.

 

**** Someone could be transfering in the proper amount for several months. Then go to get their visa or extension and learn that they have not fulfilled the "income requirements" because of the incorrect code.

 

Advisable to have a recurring transfer number established with your home bank prior to beginning these transfers. Once you have this set up all you will need to do following that is to give the bank that number each time you make the monthly transfer of at least the minimum amount required. Of course there is a fee involved in this (amount of fee varies from bank to bank)..... but by doing these wire transfers you should be issued the proper code that will be indicated on your bank records. If not, you may be in for some massive headaches.

That’s interesting.

if, however, you had a paper trail which shows for example my HSBC Bank account paying £1500 GBP into my Wise account then onward to my Kasikorn account I’d of thought all would be fine but if questioned?

I agree to check this method out with immigration etc

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On 4/13/2022 at 6:11 PM, tommy dee said:

re legal cases.  the reason they are not reported on daily anywhere is that it is illegal to report on the "takings place" inside a courtroom, other than outcomes.

 

Thanks Tommy - I did not know that - no wonder the Thai people are not aware of what is going on.  Some claim that those rules are in place for only one reason and that is to protect those being charged with criminal offences from being publicly exposed, but I would not do that myself.    

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19 hours ago, biggles said:

Glasseye, not sure why you are quoting my post? My Wise transfer was to the Philippines and I am a permanent resident so no annual renewal. 

I think he was taking the opportunity you raised (transfer delays) to raise an associated issue for those doing Wise transfers in Thailand under a Visa that requires a minimum monthly income in their bank account. 

Regarding those delays - my understanding with Wise transfers is that if the receiving bank has available the 'appropriate system' then the amount is immediately in the account. However, if the receiving bank does not use that system, then the bank itself will take a few days to 'clear' the money. I dont know the name of the 'system' that is immediate - but perhaps someone else does?

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1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I think he was taking the opportunity you raised (transfer delays) to raise an associated issue for those doing Wise transfers in Thailand under a Visa that requires a minimum monthly income in their bank account. 

Regarding those delays - my understanding with Wise transfers is that if the receiving bank has available the 'appropriate system' then the amount is immediately in the account. However, if the receiving bank does not use that system, then the bank itself will take a few days to 'clear' the money. I dont know the name of the 'system' that is immediate - but perhaps someone else does?

There are several interbank transfer systems. At the time I was living in Thailand, between Oz and Thailand it was SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications).

All times are Thai Time (TT) to make it easier to follow.

In the beginning my Oz bank would process international transfers between 5AM and 5PM TT.

SCB (my Thai bank) would process incoming transfers between 9AM and 4PM TT.

So any transfer lodged with Oz bank would be processed the same day by SCB. Usually taking between 40 minutes to 2 hours to arrive.

Then for a while things changed and any transfer lodged with Oz bank between 9AM and 4PM TT would arrive within 30 seconds. I guess Somchai was replaced by a computer or someone who could type really fast.

This lasted about six months then things went back to as before and a transfer taking 40 mins - 2 hrs.Somchai must have come back from leave.

And then Oz bank really fuked things up introducing a per country schedule for international transfers to be processed. For Thailand it was 5AM to 7AM TT so if I wanted same day service I had to lodge the transfer before 7AM TT and it would arrive after 9AM plus 40 min - 2 hrs TT.

Transfer Wise kicked off in 2010. For me at the time, the cutover point was about 7,000THB. Less than that Wise was cheaper which might suit a 2 week millionaire but I'm no cheap charlie. I used to transfer a monthly whack so stuck with bank 2 bank transfers.

At one time I was transferring a larger amount than usual and so after about 40 mins - 2 hrs I got a call from the SCB FX department. They told me I'd be getting a few pips better than the advertised FX rate and was that OK.

My understanding is with SWIFT (and probably all international transfer systems) the money doesn't move on a per transaction basis. Just accounting entries. And the money Oz bank takes out of my account for the transfer just goes into the banks operating funds and at the other end SCB pays me out of their operating funds. And then daily, or some other period, Oz bank says "I've sent this amount to SCB" and SCB says "I've sent this amount to Oz bank". They calculate the difference and just make the one settlement payment.

 

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I always used my ozbank to LOS and Philippines. Then I read about Wise. With Wise the higher the amount the higher the fee, with my OZ bank the fee was a fixed amount regardless. However Wise pays me a conversion rate almost identical to that shown on, say, XE.COM whereas OZ banks pay a lot less. A $A10, 000 transfer loses me a lot on the ex rate, compared to a $36 higher transfer fee. So I stick with Wise now. 

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On 4/13/2022 at 3:57 PM, AJSP said:

That’s interesting.

if, however, you had a paper trail which shows for example my HSBC Bank account paying £1500 GBP into my Wise account then onward to my Kasikorn account I’d of thought all would be fine but if questioned?

I agree to check this method out with immigration etc

Your method may work, but if not Wise are fully aware of the issue and have made some changes over the last 2 or 3 years to help accomodate those needing proof of income for visa extension purposes.  For now, if you bank with Bangkok Bank (and maybe Kasikorn too) and select under the reason for transfer "Funds for long term stay in Thailand", or however it's worded, from the pull down list it is processed differently from regular transfers.

There won't be any almost immediate receipt, but if the transfer is initiated and funded early enough in the day it will appear in your Thai bank just after 2:00pm that day.  If it's after the cut-off time (either 8:30am or 9:30am rings a bell) it'll post at just after 2:00pm the next day.  In these cases it'll be marked as a Foreign Transfer and good for immigration.

There's another reason for transfer option about funds for buying property that I understand is similar but have never used.

Wise don't commit to it working 100% as if a system is down things might go awry, but I've not read any reports of failure that turned out not to look like user error, but checking on "payday" every month should at least give you time to rectify it if something goes wrong.

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2 hours ago, KWA said:

Your method may work, but if not Wise are fully aware of the issue and have made some changes over the last 2 or 3 years to help accomodate those needing proof of income for visa extension purposes.  For now, if you bank with Bangkok Bank (and maybe Kasikorn too) and select under the reason for transfer "Funds for long term stay in Thailand", or however it's worded, from the pull down list it is processed differently from regular transfers.

There won't be any almost immediate receipt, but if the transfer is initiated and funded early enough in the day it will appear in your Thai bank just after 2:00pm that day.  If it's after the cut-off time (either 8:30am or 9:30am rings a bell) it'll post at just after 2:00pm the next day.  In these cases it'll be marked as a Foreign Transfer and good for immigration.

There's another reason for transfer option about funds for buying property that I understand is similar but have never used.

Wise don't commit to it working 100% as if a system is down things might go awry, but I've not read any reports of failure that turned out not to look like user error, but checking on "payday" every month should at least give you time to rectify it if something goes wrong.

Good points. 

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11 hours ago, fygjam said:

[...]

My understanding is with SWIFT (and probably all international transfer systems) the money doesn't move on a per transaction basis. Just accounting entries. And the money Oz bank takes out of my account for the transfer just goes into the banks operating funds and at the other end SCB pays me out of their operating funds. And then daily, or some other period, Oz bank says "I've sent this amount to SCB" and SCB says "I've sent this amount to Oz bank". They calculate the difference and just make the one settlement payment.

That is a bit simplified as normally the central banks are involved as well and the totals of all banks having transactions are settled at once on a daily basis, but you got the basics right.

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16 hours ago, fygjam said:

There are several interbank transfer systems. At the time I was living in Thailand, between Oz and Thailand it was SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications).

All times are Thai Time (TT) to make it easier to follow.

In the beginning my Oz bank would process international transfers between 5AM and 5PM TT.

SCB (my Thai bank) would process incoming transfers between 9AM and 4PM TT.

So any transfer lodged with Oz bank would be processed the same day by SCB. Usually taking between 40 minutes to 2 hours to arrive.

Then for a while things changed and any transfer lodged with Oz bank between 9AM and 4PM TT would arrive within 30 seconds. I guess Somchai was replaced by a computer or someone who could type really fast.

This lasted about six months then things went back to as before and a transfer taking 40 mins - 2 hrs.Somchai must have come back from leave.

And then Oz bank really fuked things up introducing a per country schedule for international transfers to be processed. For Thailand it was 5AM to 7AM TT so if I wanted same day service I had to lodge the transfer before 7AM TT and it would arrive after 9AM plus 40 min - 2 hrs TT.

Transfer Wise kicked off in 2010. For me at the time, the cutover point was about 7,000THB. Less than that Wise was cheaper which might suit a 2 week millionaire but I'm no cheap charlie. I used to transfer a monthly whack so stuck with bank 2 bank transfers.

At one time I was transferring a larger amount than usual and so after about 40 mins - 2 hrs I got a call from the SCB FX department. They told me I'd be getting a few pips better than the advertised FX rate and was that OK.

My understanding is with SWIFT (and probably all international transfer systems) the money doesn't move on a per transaction basis. Just accounting entries. And the money Oz bank takes out of my account for the transfer just goes into the banks operating funds and at the other end SCB pays me out of their operating funds. And then daily, or some other period, Oz bank says "I've sent this amount to SCB" and SCB says "I've sent this amount to Oz bank". They calculate the difference and just make the one settlement payment.

 

Thanks mate - good info. In the future I will have to look into the timings of when I send the money from Oz and when they are processed in Thailand.    

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11 hours ago, KWA said:

Your method may work, but if not Wise are fully aware of the issue and have made some changes over the last 2 or 3 years to help accomodate those needing proof of income for visa extension purposes.  For now, if you bank with Bangkok Bank (and maybe Kasikorn too) and select under the reason for transfer "Funds for long term stay in Thailand", or however it's worded, from the pull down list it is processed differently from regular transfers.

There won't be any almost immediate receipt, but if the transfer is initiated and funded early enough in the day it will appear in your Thai bank just after 2:00pm that day.  If it's after the cut-off time (either 8:30am or 9:30am rings a bell) it'll post at just after 2:00pm the next day.  In these cases it'll be marked as a Foreign Transfer and good for immigration.

There's another reason for transfer option about funds for buying property that I understand is similar but have never used.

Wise don't commit to it working 100% as if a system is down things might go awry, but I've not read any reports of failure that turned out not to look like user error, but checking on "payday" every month should at least give you time to rectify it if something goes wrong.

Cheers mate - much appreciated.

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On 4/14/2022 at 2:40 AM, biggles said:

Glasseye, not sure why you are quoting my post? My Wise transfer was to the Philippines and I am a permanent resident so no annual renewal. 

 

Because this is a Thai oriented forum. The thought came to mind when I read your post.

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18 hours ago, fygjam said:

There are several interbank transfer systems. At the time I was living in Thailand, between Oz and Thailand it was SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications).

All times are Thai Time (TT) to make it easier to follow.

In the beginning my Oz bank would process international transfers between 5AM and 5PM TT.

SCB (my Thai bank) would process incoming transfers between 9AM and 4PM TT.

So any transfer lodged with Oz bank would be processed the same day by SCB. Usually taking between 40 minutes to 2 hours to arrive.

Then for a while things changed and any transfer lodged with Oz bank between 9AM and 4PM TT would arrive within 30 seconds. I guess Somchai was replaced by a computer or someone who could type really fast.

This lasted about six months then things went back to as before and a transfer taking 40 mins - 2 hrs.Somchai must have come back from leave.

And then Oz bank really fuked things up introducing a per country schedule for international transfers to be processed. For Thailand it was 5AM to 7AM TT so if I wanted same day service I had to lodge the transfer before 7AM TT and it would arrive after 9AM plus 40 min - 2 hrs TT.

Transfer Wise kicked off in 2010. For me at the time, the cutover point was about 7,000THB. Less than that Wise was cheaper which might suit a 2 week millionaire but I'm no cheap charlie. I used to transfer a monthly whack so stuck with bank 2 bank transfers.

At one time I was transferring a larger amount than usual and so after about 40 mins - 2 hrs I got a call from the SCB FX department. They told me I'd be getting a few pips better than the advertised FX rate and was that OK.

My understanding is with SWIFT (and probably all international transfer systems) the money doesn't move on a per transaction basis. Just accounting entries. And the money Oz bank takes out of my account for the transfer just goes into the banks operating funds and at the other end SCB pays me out of their operating funds. And then daily, or some other period, Oz bank says "I've sent this amount to SCB" and SCB says "I've sent this amount to Oz bank". They calculate the difference and just make the one settlement payment.

 

 

 

Good post....

 

Basically.... there are many different "angles" related to discussion regarding money transfers.

 

Much of it is based on a combination of things. Primarily - each countries particular banking related "laws", international agreements/treaties/agreements between individual governments, etc. etc., individual bank policies and agreements of between banks, yada yada.... And software that those banks use to interface with each other.

 

Basic example ---- (maybe not the best example, but here it goes...). Discover credit card (which is basically accepted worldwide) essentially cannot be used in Thailand. Unless you use it at a place that used to accept Diners Card. Because --- Discover Card only can work with that old software. The only bank that has this software that is compatible with this software is Bangkok Bank. Try to use Discover Card for a cash advance (or just about anything else) anywhere else it won't accept it.

 

The same is true with bank transfers. The software has to be compatible.

 

Regarding Thai immigration.... The are tightening up on their transfer requirements because of massive fraud. Therefore the proper interface (ie. codes, etc.) need to be proper according to their rules, which have been recently changed.

 

Because it has been recently changed many banking folks, etc. won't have a clue. You may still be able to transfer money but it may not be acceptable for the income requirements of Thai immigration for long stay visas.

 

I believe that in order to insure the proper code the transfer should be a proper SWIFT transfer. Anything else may not suffice.

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5 minutes ago, Glasseye said:

Good post....

Basically.... there are many different "angles" related to discussion regarding money transfers.

Much of it is based on a combination of things. Primarily - each countries particular banking related "laws", international agreements/treaties/agreements between individual governments, etc. etc., individual bank policies and agreements of between banks, yada yada.... And software that those banks use to interface with each other.

Basic example ---- (maybe not the best example, but here it goes...). Discover credit card (which is basically accepted worldwide) essentially cannot be used in Thailand. Unless you use it at a place that used to accept Diners Card. Because --- Discover Card only can work with that old software. The only bank that has this software that is compatible with this software is Bangkok Bank. Try to use Discover Card for a cash advance (or just about anything else) anywhere else it won't accept it.

The same is true with bank transfers. The software has to be compatible.

Regarding Thai immigration.... The are tightening up on their transfer requirements because of massive fraud. Therefore the proper interface (ie. codes, etc.) need to be proper according to their rules, which have been recently changed.

Because it has been recently changed many banking folks, etc. won't have a clue. You may still be able to transfer money but it may not be acceptable for the income requirements of Thai immigration for long stay visas.

I believe that in order to insure the proper code the transfer should be a proper SWIFT transfer. Anything else may not suffice.

I would also add to all that the issue of Thailand's banks not being structured as a national business like they are in most of the west. Essentially the bank branches in Thailand are a franchise setup, which is based upon each Province (like so many other things). So the money has to arrive and be accepted at the HQ Section and part of the acceptance is the 'transfer' to the bank franchise for that account.  The franchise structure is why there is a fee when you transfer money from the Phuket Branch to the Chiang Mai branch, and why when you go into the Phuket branch with a serious problem they will tell you that you need to go the the Chiang Mai branch where the account is 'owned'.

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2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I would also add to all that the issue of Thailand's banks not being structured as a national business like they are in most of the west. Essentially the bank branches in Thailand are a franchise setup, which is based upon each Province (like so many other things). So the money has to arrive and be accepted at the HQ Section and part of the acceptance is the 'transfer' to the bank franchise for that account.  The franchise structure is why there is a fee when you transfer money from the Phuket Branch to the Chiang Mai branch, and why when you go into the Phuket branch with a serious problem they will tell you that you need to go the the Chiang Mai branch where the account is 'owned'.

 

That is a perfect example on how sometimes certain systems may be at times "incompatible" and why those that are depending on their transfers for proper visa status (or in many cases just getting funds to get through a week or day) need to be ON THEIR TOES about this kind of thing.

 

Whether you are in Thailand, The P.I. or anywhere else for that matter.

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21 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I would also add to all that the issue of Thailand's banks not being structured as a national business like they are in most of the west. Essentially the bank branches in Thailand are a franchise setup, which is based upon each Province (like so many other things). So the money has to arrive and be accepted at the HQ Section and part of the acceptance is the 'transfer' to the bank franchise for that account.  The franchise structure is why there is a fee when you transfer money from the Phuket Branch to the Chiang Mai branch, and why when you go into the Phuket branch with a serious problem they will tell you that you need to go the the Chiang Mai branch where the account is 'owned'.

i dot think thats been the case for quite a while.  it certainly used to be.  my accunt was in another province and I couldnt get anything done locally here.  but thats all changed now and there is no fee within the banks for out of province transactions now either

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4 hours ago, tommy dee said:

i dot think thats been the case for quite a while.  it certainly used to be.  my accunt was in another province and I couldnt get anything done locally here.  but thats all changed now and there is no fee within the banks for out of province transactions now either

Thanks for that update - it was a few years ago when I had the problems and it was explained to me.  Which bank is that you used? 

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11 hours ago, AJSP said:

How about the 15thb ATM fee ? 
 

that is outdated nowadays but normal here - easy money 

If that's the out of province fee then it's gone, as has the fee for using another bank's ATM (up to ? transactions per month, not sure exactly how many).

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35 minutes ago, KWA said:

If that's the out of province fee then it's gone, as has the fee for using another bank's ATM (up to ? transactions per month, not sure exactly how many).

Kasikorn still has the out of province fee.  TW got hit with it last week up country.

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46 minutes ago, tko said:

Kasikorn still has the out of province fee.  TW got hit with it last week up country.

Yes same here / Udon Thani is my branch and hit charged 15thb when in Patts

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3 hours ago, KWA said:

If that's the out of province fee then it's gone, as has the fee for using another bank's ATM (up to ? transactions per month, not sure exactly how many).

The free withdrawal is for using your bank's ATM card in another bank's ATM machine within the same region. Up to four free withdrawals/month. IIRC, this happened several years ago when Thailand made a push to promote cashless transactions. With that change you can also send money immediately to another bank account with no transaction fee. Odd thing is, if you select the one or two day delayed transaction there's still a fee.

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38 minutes ago, Horizondave said:

It's why I have Kasikorn bank cards for Hua Hin, Khon Kaen and Pattaya, it saves quite a bit.

I’ve now set up K Bank on my phone which is great and a load of places accept this Method of of payment - just scan the barcode et voila 

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