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Expat insurance


Britboy

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Hey guys,

I could do with some guidance, if you guys who live in Thailand full time wouldn't mind sharing.

Some of you will know I moved to Thailand in August 2019, with the view of staying permanently. I sorted a retirement visa through an Agency, opened bank accounts, etc. and had a great condo on Jomtien. Then Covid hit, my 93 year-old mum was starting to struggle and as soon as I knew there'd be a lockdown coming I legged it back to UK at the end of Feb 2020, just prior to the first UK lockdown.

I was going to sort out a permanent insurance policy when I first arrived, but Bangkok Bank included 12 months cover with pretty good limits, etc. as part of opening an account. So I was sorted.

Again as some of you know, my mum sadly passed away in April 2020, about 9 days after having a massive stroke. At least I had a few weeks with her.

My brother and I have now sorted everything as the Executors, so I'm now seriously thinking about returning to Thailand to live out the rest of my days. I must say the UK gets on my t*ts on so many fronts, but the overriding factor is I simply can't stand the thought of more English winters.

So who do you insure yourself with as expats and roughly how much does it cost? Obviously cost depends on age, pre-existing conditions, general health, etc. but I'd like a rough idea and ideally some recommended companies. There's loads on this site about travel insurance, I did search for expat insurance, but couldn't find anything.

I'm 67 right now, 68 in October with no pre-existing health conditions, pretty fit and healthy generally (though I do smoke cigars . . 🙁).

I did have a hack around on a few sites, Siam Legal had a link to AXA, so I've emailed them who will supposedly get back with a quote.

I'd be grateful for any guidance, suggestions and links you guys can help with.

Thanks,

Dave

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Hi Dave. 

Reading just what I just read can I assume things have somewhat changed for you in the UK? 

I can't recommend Thai only health insurance if that makes sense but as an expat living in Sweden I obviously had to make provisions for myself as it could affect my application for a residential visa. 

After careful consideration I chose a company called Cigna. I'm sure they would cover you in Thailand. The service and advice I received from them was excellent. 

Now.... I'm 58, ten years your junior and my monthly premium for good to excellent cover up to 1.3 million quid is £141 per month. 

Im just hoping I can get my residency, a personal ID so I can cancel the policy and use the Swedish health system like most swedes do ( not wanting to get sick of course) 

Cigna.... Good company I recommend but I'm sure others can find alternatives for you. 

All the best mate and good luck. 

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2 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

I and a few other expat friends have been with IMG Global for years. Several are also with Pacific Cross.

Since premiums as you noted are age dependent and also based on the plan and deductible you select, best to use the the online quote function for price info.

Yup I am with Pacific Cross too.

My plan is to see how much it will increase as I get older then looking at self Insuring (i.e. paying for myself and using Thai hospitals)

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2 hours ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

Yup I am with Pacific Cross too.

My plan is to see how much it will increase as I get older then looking at self Insuring (i.e. paying for myself and using Thai hospitals)

You should be able to see it right now as insurances usually have some age groups. Of course there is inflation and special cost increase in case of things like Covid.

Unbenannt.jpg

 

In case your insurance doesn't have a group for above 75 or so, they will probably just kick you out, so better find a company that won't.

 

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40 minutes ago, CampariO said:

You should be able to see it right now as insurances usually have some age groups. Of course there is inflation and special cost increase in case of things like Covid.

Yes Mate, thanks.

Perhaps I need to correct my own English. It is more  of a strategy than a plan. I will know more when I reach 66 in December and get an extra Pension (that I have a forecast for!) but I'll wait for everything to come out of the wash before making a plan.

 

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Thanks very much guys for your help and advice.

Looks pretty expensive and more so as the clock ticks on.

I did get a quote come through from Staysure, though it's a multi-trip policy, maximum individual stay is 50 days. Think I'll talk to them to see if they can do a full time policy as their pricing for the multi-stay is really good - comprehensive coverage is only £143 for the year . . 

Of course I could risk it and jump on a plane back to UK if I get really sick, but if it's a stroke or heart attack obviously won't be able to do that.

I'm one of those lucky guys, never get sick. It'd be sods law to come out there and keel over . . ☹️

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10 hours ago, Aqualung said:

Hi Dave. 

Reading just what I just read can I assume things have somewhat changed for you in the UK? 

I can't recommend Thai only health insurance if that makes sense but as an expat living in Sweden I obviously had to make provisions for myself as it could affect my application for a residential visa. 

After careful consideration I chose a company called Cigna. I'm sure they would cover you in Thailand. The service and advice I received from them was excellent. 

Now.... I'm 58, ten years your junior and my monthly premium for good to excellent cover up to 1.3 million quid is £141 per month. 

Im just hoping I can get my residency, a personal ID so I can cancel the policy and use the Swedish health system like most swedes do ( not wanting to get sick of course) 

Cigna.... Good company I recommend but I'm sure others can find alternatives for you. 

All the best mate and good luck. 

Yeah, things have changed mate. Long story which I won't go into here.

I'm ready for the next chapter. Thailand is opening up just at the right time and I'm getting things organised so I can come back.

I may have a look around at insurance in-country, surely it must be cheaper with a policy in Thailand, though don't know how much I can trust them to come up with the goods if/when the need arises. When the time does come to depart this planet hopefully it'll be quick or just don't wake up one morning, so it's just a case of chucking me in a box with my daughter or son's address label on it . . 😭

I've been looking at some of the bloggers on YouTube. Seems to be some great prices on decent apartment rentals right now, though I imagine as things start to get back to normal prices will rise. I guess availability outweighs demand at the moment.

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2 hours ago, CampariO said:

You should be able to see it right now as insurances usually have some age groups. Of course there is inflation and special cost increase in case of things like Covid.

Unbenannt.jpg

 

In case your insurance doesn't have a group for above 75 or so, they will probably just kick you out, so better find a company that won't.

 

Thanks for this @CampariO. Christ that seems expensive . . ☹️ It's almost worth taking the risk at those prices.

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13 minutes ago, Britboy said:

I've been looking at some of the bloggers on YouTube.

Not forgetting that Kev in Thailand recommended not taking out Health Insurance here.

I've never seen it debated whether it would have helped him or not but I'd be interested in any conclusion drawn. Unfortunately YTers just seem interested in keeping his memory alive for their own reasons rather than  doing a factual, in depth analysis on the pros and cons on Health Insurance using Kev's original vlog and his very sad passing as a template.

I like to think that Kev was pragmatic enough to want such a comparison made in his honour rather than tacky "memorials" in a bar .......

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4 minutes ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

Not forgetting that Kev in Thailand recommended not taking out Health Insurance here.

I've never seen it debated whether it would have helped him or not but I'd be interested in any conclusion drawn. Unfortunately YTers just seem interested in keeping his memory alive for their own reasons rather than  doing a factual, in depth analysis on the pros and cons on Health Insurance using Kev's original vlog and his very sad passing as a template.

I like to think that Kev was pragmatic enough to want such a comparison made in his honour rather than tacky "memorials" in a bar .......

Yes, someone doing a real in-depth look at health insurance would be an excellent project and really useful.

Comparing these international policies with in-country policies would also be useful, people's experiences of having to use the policy and how the hospital/medical care was, etc. etc.

Just going through the various sites you guys have kindly listed here is interesting. All of them give me a price before even asking about pre-existing conditions and current general health. WTF is that all about? Surely there should be a base price then it increases as you add that stuff?

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Perhaps the first thing to determine is the sort of insurance that you want. Is it medical insurance or travel insurance (which includes medical if you are travelling)?

From what you are saying about your proposed new life, I don't think travel insurance would cover you for medical issues in Thailand.

If you want medical insurance, I suggest you seriously crunch the numbers on self-insurance. When I looked into it a few years ago, the maximum cover offered did not warrant the premiums that were being asked by the Thai insurance companies, and international cover from companies like BUPA was just too expensive to contemplate.

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18 minutes ago, Bazle said:

Perhaps the first thing to determine is the sort of insurance that you want. Is it medical insurance or travel insurance (which includes medical if you are travelling)?

From what you are saying about your proposed new life, I don't think travel insurance would cover you for medical issues in Thailand.

If you want medical insurance, I suggest you seriously crunch the numbers on self-insurance. When I looked into it a few years ago, the maximum cover offered did not warrant the premiums that were being asked by the Thai insurance companies, and international cover from companies like BUPA was just too expensive to contemplate.

Get your drift Bazle.

Ideally I'm looking for medical insurance in Thailand as an ex-pat living there full time.

This Staysure policy is really travel insurance, which includes medical, but covers multi-trips over a 1 year period, max stay for each trip being 50 days. I haven't checked all the t's and c's as yet, but in theory it looks like I could leave the country every 49 days, return a few days later and be covered again for 49 days. If I had a UK address, then despite renting somewhere full time in Thailand it could be viewed I'm still a UK resident.

That's a bit tongue in cheek of course, just looking at ways round paying these extortionate rates these insurance companies charge. If something bad did happen and I ended up in hospital for a lengthy period I wouldn't want to risk the insurance company saying I'm not covered.

I'll be emailing Staysure and be up front - let's see what they come back with.

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7 minutes ago, Britboy said:

Get your drift Bazle.

Ideally I'm looking for medical insurance in Thailand as an ex-pat living there full time.

This Staysure policy is really travel insurance, which includes medical, but covers multi-trips over a 1 year period, max stay for each trip being 50 days. I haven't checked all the t's and c's as yet, but in theory it looks like I could leave the country every 49 days, return a few days later and be covered again for 49 days. If I had a UK address, then despite renting somewhere full time in Thailand it could be viewed I'm still a UK resident.

That's a bit tongue in cheek of course, just looking at ways round paying these extortionate rates these insurance companies charge. If something bad did happen and I ended up in hospital for a lengthy period I wouldn't want to risk the insurance company saying I'm not covered.

I'll be emailing Staysure and be up front - let's see what they come back with.

I looked at Staysure, think you can increase the duration of a trip up to 100 days

Edited by Stillearly
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25 minutes ago, Bazle said:

If you want medical insurance, I suggest you seriously crunch the numbers on self-insurance. When I looked into it a few years ago, the maximum cover offered did not warrant the premiums that were being asked by the Thai insurance companies, and international cover from companies like BUPA was just too expensive to contemplate.

Totally agree with every word!

But will the time come when Health Insurance becomes part of a "retirement" visa?

Thankfully "Big Joke" has moved on to pastures new after rattling too many cages .... but you never know when a "new joke" will appear on the scene. Given how Thailand is desperate for farang money I am damned sure that things will get more difficult for expats to get a long term visa because doing the opposite of what seems logical seems to be the way with this Government. (Sorry to slither into politics there!)

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53 minutes ago, Britboy said:

This Staysure policy is really travel insurance, which includes medical, but covers multi-trips over a 1 year period, max stay for each trip being 50 days. I haven't checked all the t's and c's as yet, but in theory it looks like I could leave the country every 49 days, return a few days later and be covered again for 49 days. If I had a UK address, then despite renting somewhere full time in Thailand it could be viewed I'm still a UK resident.

Often in these policies there is also a clause about the maximum period IN TOTAL that you can travel in a year.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with travel insurance. You will always have the thought in the back of your mind that the insurance company could refuse to pay out if they looked closely into your circumstances.

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1 hour ago, Stillearly said:

I looked at Staysure, think you can increase the duration of a trip up to 100 days

Staysure have just replied to my enquiry and they're very clear that for any policy you have to "reside" in UK, so purely travel insurance. Few other nuances, including having to be registered with a UK GP practice (which I am) and having to reside in UK for 6 months prior to the start of the policy (which I have).

Too risky to take this as my medical cover in Thailand. As I said above and @Bazle also commented, I'd hate to be in an emergency only for the insurance company to refuse to pay.

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Another one here that uses Pacific Cross.  I got it through AA Insurance Brokers who have an office next to Big C on South Road.

https://www.aainsure.net/

They deal with several companies so it could be worthwhile going in to talk with them as they should pick one best suited to your needs.

Pricing is the same as you see on Pacific Cross website and there is a No Claims Discount on renewal.  My plan is for Thai residents (6 months/year needed) and covers me for holidays abroad, and repatriation (to Thailand) if required.

April is one of the other companies thay deal with.

https://www.april.com/en/

 

 

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When I lived in Thailand I used Pacific Cross for the last 5 years I was there; before that I was using Thai Visa which operated a system where the number of people buying an insurance seemed to keep the premium low, well that was OK for the first year but seemed to go up dramatically the second year so I found it was cheaper to buy my own personal cover, I also got better cover.  I was advised (surprised me) that it was younger members who were the ones driving the increases.

Pacific Cross were very good, I even went to their offices in Bangkok to arrange what I required.  My cover included my daughter at no extra cost for the last 2 years I was in Thailand. I only paid for IPD as I wanted to keep my premiums down. Their cover was sufficient for all major hospital groups and had unlimited medical costs with nursing fees, accommodation etc. well beyond that of the major groups including Bangkok etc. I believe it had a 20m baht lifetime cover. 

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7 hours ago, Bazle said:

Perhaps the first thing to determine is the sort of insurance that you want. Is it medical insurance or travel insurance (which includes medical if you are travelling)?

From what you are saying about your proposed new life, I don't think travel insurance would cover you for medical issues in Thailand.

If you want medical insurance, I suggest you seriously crunch the numbers on self-insurance. When I looked into it a few years ago, the maximum cover offered did not warrant the premiums that were being asked by the Thai insurance companies, and international cover from companies like BUPA was just too expensive to contemplate.

The elephant in the room is that just when one is most likely to need medical services the cost of insurance has become prohibitive to the point where one may come to the conclusion that it is no longer worth paying the annual cost. My medical insurance was with BUPA but the cost was extortionate for the level of cover it provided.

On the other hand, the cost of treatment in Thailand at private hospitals is equally extortionate and they seem to be all too ready to have one in for treatment. Can one trust the diagnosis at a hospital where income comes first and patient care second?

I had some medical issues that needed investigation. The hospital concerned wanted 250K baht up front just to arrive at a prognosis. Any subsequent treatment was like giving them an open ended cheque.

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