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Medical Insurance in Thailand


AussieBob

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21 hours ago, CampariO said:

There is, such as Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-A” (long stay/retirement). Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.

O-X and Elite Visas also have > 1 year validity.

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26 minutes ago, coxyhog said:

Elite you have to leave the kingdom annually I believe.

Not according to this site. Interesting they also mention the Elite Visa is categorized as a Tourist Visa.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-elite-visa

Thai Elite Visa

The Thailand Elite Visa is a long-term visa given to the Thailand Privilege Card members. It is categorized under Tourist Visa (Privilege Entry Visa “PE”) allowing residency in Thailand along with benefits for a period between 5, 10, or 20 years depending on the chosen package in exchange for a membership fee.

  • The Thai Elite Visa is a 5-year renewable multiple entry visa with an extendable 1-year length of stay per each entry.
  • The Thai Elite visa holder can have an uninterrupted stay in Thailand without the usual need to leave the country every 90 days as with the other visa types.
  • The Elite Visa holder will be represented by the Thai Elite staff on the 90-day reporting as required by the Thai Immigration.
  • Thai Elite Visa holders will receive expedited immigration formalities and passport control processing when arriving in Thailand
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2 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

Not according to this site. Interesting they also mention the Elite Visa is categorized as a Tourist Visa.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-elite-visa

Thai Elite Visa

The Thailand Elite Visa is a long-term visa given to the Thailand Privilege Card members. It is categorized under Tourist Visa (Privilege Entry Visa “PE”) allowing residency in Thailand along with benefits for a period between 5, 10, or 20 years depending on the chosen package in exchange for a membership fee.

  • The Thai Elite Visa is a 5-year renewable multiple entry visa with an extendable 1-year length of stay per each entry.
  • The Thai Elite visa holder can have an uninterrupted stay in Thailand without the usual need to leave the country every 90 days as with the other visa types.
  • The Elite Visa holder will be represented by the Thai Elite staff on the 90-day reporting as required by the Thai Immigration.
  • Thai Elite Visa holders will receive expedited immigration formalities and passport control processing when arriving in Thailand

I remember reading somewhere about a guy who lost his elite visa because he didn't leave within the year.

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On 6/22/2022 at 5:15 PM, KWA said:

Nope, my understanding is clear and reinforced by your link which also differentiates between tourist and other visas on the page "Types of Visa".

Note I did not mention any immigrant visas even if there was such a thing, but there are clearly differences between tourist and non immigrant and other types.  Whatever you heard in the video may have been over simplified to make the point we are not permanent residents, or maybe it's just come over wrongly, as Immigration clearly treat them differently, as many who have been refused entry can testify.

Sorry - you dont understand the technicalities of the legal basis upon which Visas are enacted in Thailand Law.  All Visas for non-citizens are based on the Immigration Law for Tourists Visas - the only difference is their terms and conditions.  Marketing differences and Title differences are not Immigration Legal differences.

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On 6/22/2022 at 6:55 PM, forcebwithu said:

Most Thais don't pay income tax probably because their income doesn't reach the minimum income level to be taxed.
image.png

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

Given that the minimum wage is 300 baht and most workers work 6 days a week in Thailand, that equates to about 90,000 baht. To reach 150,000 baht only requires 500 baht a day (or about 400 baht a day if 7 days). Do you really think that many Thais do not earn more than that - bar girls earn a lot more - so do many others. But your point is correct and it agrees with my point - most Thais do not pay income tax.  Many should - but they dont - compliance is not enforced. My wife worked as a housmaid and made more than 150K and her two sisters own hairdresser shops - they all made/make over 150K - but they have never done a tax return and never will. 

Most Thais pay VAT tax only - and my point is that most Expats dont pay income tax (some do) but they all pay more VAT than most Thais. I dont think the Thai Govt has any idea how much value Expats bring to Thailand. Sure in the big picture they dont, but when you look at them individually they contribute a lot more to the Thailand economy and social value, than do most Tourists. Sure there are a lot more tourists, but do any of them buy houses, apartments, cars, shop at Makro, pay for Thais education, etc etc etc. The big numbers do count, but it is at the micro-level that the true value of Expats is revealed. How much is it 'worth' for Expats who raise the living and social standards of ordinary Thais - when compared to Tourists who give their money to Thai millionaires who own the airlines and hotels and malls and restaurants and duty-free places etc etc.

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15 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Not according to this site. Interesting they also mention the Elite Visa is categorized as a Tourist Visa.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-elite-visa

Thai Elite Visa

The Thailand Elite Visa is a long-term visa given to the Thailand Privilege Card members. It is categorized under Tourist Visa (Privilege Entry Visa “PE”) allowing residency in Thailand along with benefits for a period between 5, 10, or 20 years depending on the chosen package in exchange for a membership fee.

  • The Thai Elite Visa is a 5-year renewable multiple entry visa with an extendable 1-year length of stay per each entry.
  • The Thai Elite visa holder can have an uninterrupted stay in Thailand without the usual need to leave the country every 90 days as with the other visa types.
  • The Elite Visa holder will be represented by the Thai Elite staff on the 90-day reporting as required by the Thai Immigration.
  • Thai Elite Visa holders will receive expedited immigration formalities and passport control processing when arriving in Thailand

Yep - and they are all technically a Tourist Visa. 

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31 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Sorry - you dont understand the technicalities of the legal basis upon which Visas are enacted in Thailand Law.  All Visas for non-citizens are based on the Immigration Law for Tourists Visas - the only difference is their terms and conditions.  Marketing differences and Title differences are not Immigration Legal differences.

Sorry, you have interpreted a video of a lady, probably speaking in her second language, as being gospel when hundreds or more actions by immigration officers, a perusal of government websites (like the one you linked to above) and a quick look at a dictionary willl all tell you the reality is otherwise.

Non Immigrant ≠ Tourist

To give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe they refer to it as tourist in the same way they refer to extensions of stay as visas, but just like these extensions are not visas, in practice long term stayers are not tourists and are not allowed to stay indefinitely on TR visas.

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16 hours ago, coxyhog said:

I remember reading somewhere about a guy who lost his elite visa because he didn't leave within the year.

Didn't "check in" is more likely I think.  There is some sort of annual reporting system for Elite Visa holders IIRC.

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22 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Given that the minimum wage is 300 baht and most workers work 6 days a week in Thailand, that equates to about 90,000 baht. To reach 150,000 baht only requires 500 baht a day (or about 400 baht a day if 7 days). Do you really think that many Thais do not earn more than that - bar girls earn a lot more - so do many others. But your point is correct and it agrees with my point - most Thais do not pay income tax.  Many should - but they dont - compliance is not enforced. My wife worked as a housmaid and made more than 150K and her two sisters own hairdresser shops - they all made/make over 150K - but they have never done a tax return and never will. 

Most Thais pay VAT tax only - and my point is that most Expats dont pay income tax (some do) but they all pay more VAT than most Thais. I dont think the Thai Govt has any idea how much value Expats bring to Thailand. Sure in the big picture they dont, but when you look at them individually they contribute a lot more to the Thailand economy and social value, than do most Tourists. Sure there are a lot more tourists, but do any of them buy houses, apartments, cars, shop at Makro, pay for Thais education, etc etc etc. The big numbers do count, but it is at the micro-level that the true value of Expats is revealed. How much is it 'worth' for Expats who raise the living and social standards of ordinary Thais - when compared to Tourists who give their money to Thai millionaires who own the airlines and hotels and malls and restaurants and duty-free places etc etc.

the tourist spend on the white economy, covid aside, far exceeds the amount that we expats spend. when you buy a house, there is no tax as its company ( usually)  when you educate children, well you are just spending money, and thais , a lot of them even in factories, pay for semi private schooling.    minimum wage here is 340 i think u will find but only those n very menial jobs earn that.    salaried employees then are all coming into the minimum tax bracket with OT.    self employed, like the hairdressers you mentioned, are simply on the black economy ( cash business) and avoiding taxes the same as a bar girl does.  and she doesnt pay taxes because then she would be an employee and have rights.

all very confusing but..would you would happily pay 4K a month for tax and social security, in order to get the very basis medical coverage on off o the social here?  asking for a friend

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On 6/22/2022 at 1:46 PM, Derek Dangleberries said:

Who paid for that  and how was it obtained?

The Thailand SS scheme paid for that in full and they continue to cover me while being retired. For a cost of 432 baht a month. Pretty good full coverage  for 12.50 a month 

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21 hours ago, KWA said:

Sorry, you have interpreted a video of a lady, probably speaking in her second language, as being gospel when hundreds or more actions by immigration officers, a perusal of government websites (like the one you linked to above) and a quick look at a dictionary willl all tell you the reality is otherwise.

Non Immigrant ≠ Tourist

To give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe they refer to it as tourist in the same way they refer to extensions of stay as visas, but just like these extensions are not visas, in practice long term stayers are not tourists and are not allowed to stay indefinitely on TR visas.

Did you not listen when I said that was the forst tiome I realised that (from the video) so I did some extensive research.  

1. Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require 90 days reporting? 

2.  Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require applications to extend permission to stay beyond 12 months?

1. Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period of a Tourist Visa in Thailand is 90 days. 'Reporting' means automatic extension of the permission to stay under a non-immigrant Visa.  Under the Thai Elite and such Visa programs, the 'reporting' is done automatically for the holder but the annual extensions require their Passports to be provided (and they do the annual extension process for them).

2.  Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period for the 'validity' of a Tourist Visa is 12 months. If you are approved for a long term non-immigrant Visa you have 12 months to enter the Kingdom.  Once you enter you must report every 90 days for permission to stay longer, up to a maximum of 12 months from the date of entry. To stay any longer you must apply for an annual extension of your permission to stay, which if approved, impose the same conditions for staying - 90 day reports for automatic extension of permission to stay. 

Australia has many Tourist Visas and many Immigrant Visas - they are each separate Laws (Enactments) under the Australian Immigration Act - one covers Tourists (all visitors) and the other is for Immigrants. Being a Tourist provides certain rights and conditions, but being an Immigrant provides far more rights and conditions and leads to Residency and Citizenship.  

Thailand only has Tourist Visas - it is the only Laws under the Thailand Immigration Act that allows for non-citizens to Visit or Stay in Thailand (all are Visitors or as per the act Aliens). All 'Visitors' to Thailand are legally Aliens - short term long term makes no difference.  There are no Immigration Visas in Thailand under the Thailand Immigration Act. Zero. None. Nada. 

I cannot make it any plainer for you -  and I aint gonna try anymore. 

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15 hours ago, tommy dee said:

in order to get the very basis medical coverage on off o the social here?

it is far from basic Thomas. If the government hospital you are registered at can not treat the issues you have you are referred to a privet hospital for the treatment and it is covered as well.   

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25 minutes ago, Yesitisdakid said:

The Thailand SS scheme paid for that in full and they continue to cover me while being retired. For a cost of 432 baht a month. Pretty good full coverage  for 12.50 a month 

May I ask how you were able to get that?  I assume it was through employment for a long period? Or was it another way - marriage? - Thai wife in public service? 

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16 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

May I ask how you were able to get that?  I assume it was through employment for a long period? Or was it another way - marriage? - Thai wife in public service? 

larry was a legal employee with work permit and all taxes and nat ins paid.  .  when you retire or leave, you , as an ex employee, then have the option to continue to pay, as all thais do, by paying monthly for life.  he is very fortunate 

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52 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

May I ask how you were able to get that?  I assume it was through employment for a long period? Or was it another way - marriage? - Thai wife in public service? 

As Tommy has stated above the only catch could be you have to get into the system before you're 60 years old if not you cannot get the medical cover. It's basically working for companies in a legal form that provide all of the documentation for you. Unfortunately here in Thailand you often read about people that are working under the table so to speak and are not allowed any of the benefits.

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4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Did you not listen when I said that was the forst tiome I realised that (from the video) so I did some extensive research.  

1. Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require 90 days reporting? 

2.  Why do all long term non-immigrant Visas require applications to extend permission to stay beyond 12 months?

1. Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period of a Tourist Visa in Thailand is 90 days. 'Reporting' means automatic extension of the permission to stay under a non-immigrant Visa.  Under the Thai Elite and such Visa programs, the 'reporting' is done automatically for the holder but the annual extensions require their Passports to be provided (and they do the annual extension process for them).

2.  Because they are all Tourist Visas under the Thailand Immigration Laws and the maximum legal period for the 'validity' of a Tourist Visa is 12 months. If you are approved for a long term non-immigrant Visa you have 12 months to enter the Kingdom.  Once you enter you must report every 90 days for permission to stay longer, up to a maximum of 12 months from the date of entry. To stay any longer you must apply for an annual extension of your permission to stay, which if approved, impose the same conditions for staying - 90 day reports for automatic extension of permission to stay. 

Lets just say your interpretation of almost everything you've mentioned is different from most, and is most certainly different from what Immigration actually practice and from what they publish.  I gave you the benefit previously that it may have been the wording used, perhaps in translation to English, but now I tend to think you just really don't understand.

As before, Non Immigrant ≠ Tourist.

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Bit of semantics and personal interpretation going on here.

Whatever we think, the reality is that non immigrant visas are issued to people entering the country for purposes other than 'tourism or leisure'.

Couldn't give a monkeys why somebody would try to prove otherwise or even the reality of how we still feel like tourists, but when I lived there for 15 years as a retiree proving my worth on a non immigrant visa I was not there as a tourist and I applied for the appropriate visa.

For info I left the country often to be a tourist in another country but came back to my home in Thailand to continue living there, I rarely reported 90 days as that report was done every time I arrived at Swampy.

What's the big deal.

Anyhow, medical insurance, now that's worth talking about!

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9 hours ago, tommy dee said:

AB.. you didnt answer the question.  would yo be happy to pay 4K in tax and social and get the free stae medical for life?

Yes, based on what @Yesitisdakid has advised. Full coverage in Govt Hospitals and paid Private Hospital if needed because Govt cannot provide. 48K per year is cheap compared to the private insurance policies I have been quoted. 

I am well over 60 so that is not an option the way he got it, but if it was made available to long stay Expats who had become Residents after 3 years, then I would definitely take it up. 

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5 hours ago, KWA said:

Lets just say your interpretation of almost everything you've mentioned is different from most, and is most certainly different from what Immigration actually practice and from what they publish.  I gave you the benefit previously that it may have been the wording used, perhaps in translation to English, but now I tend to think you just really don't understand.

As before, Non Immigrant ≠ Tourist.

Please provide a link to any Immigrant Visa for entry into Thailand. OK so you agree that.

It may be semantics, but that is how the law works. But lets agree to disagree. 

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3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Yes, based on what @Yesitisdakid has advised. Full coverage in Govt Hospitals and paid Private Hospital if needed because Govt cannot provide. 48K per year is cheap compared to the private insurance policies I have been quoted. 

I am well over 60 so that is not an option the way he got it, but if it was made available to long stay Expats who had become Residents after 3 years, then I would definitely take it up. 

it was a leading question as, existing conditions aside, you can buy private in patient only insurance for not much more than that here, even over 60.  QED I guess, unless you need me to call for quotes for you 🙂  5 K max will see you get coverage

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8 hours ago, tommy dee said:

it was a leading question as, existing conditions aside, you can buy private in patient only insurance for not much more than that here, even over 60.  QED I guess, unless you need me to call for quotes for you 🙂  5 K max will see you get coverage

Tommy you are indeed so helpful - some would say matriarchal. Thanks for that, but I will say that IMO the public health program at 50K a year is a better option by far. The public cover will not dramatically increase in premiums, and will provide free coverage for all medical services - no limits. 

I am very dubious about the Thai private health insurance industry, having heard many bad stories - and many good ones. The cheaper policies come with conditions like maximum 400K per event, and within that 400K are limits for each category of costs. Therefore to cover it all (which is what it is for really - a bad car accident or serious illness) it costs a bit more than 60K a year - and as you get older the premiums increase - dramatically after 70.  I once did a cost calculation based on 3% annual increase (it will be more if I make a claim), and it totalled over 3 million baht by the time I was 85 (average 150K a year)  Sure there are cheaper plans - but as I pointed out to one bloke - the plan he had for about 40K back then, only paid out 400K for any single event and 100K max for 'hospital costs'.  That might be good for a busted leg or something, but what if he has a serious car accident. He was shocked (he never read the fine print) as his policy claimed '1 million' coverage. Mate I am pedantic (you might have noticed) and I read the fine print and I do the costs forecasting over 20 years.  By the way, you know why there are never any negative stories published about Expats and their medical insurance problems and ripoffs - guaranteed deportation and/or annual extension refusal - the defamation laws in Thailand mean being correct is irrelevant - just ask that British journalist and that Tourist who slagged off on social media about that Hotel.  

When the Thai Govt mandated the very expensive health insurance for all new O-A Visas (Retirement from overseas), the big concern was that same coverage option was going to be applied to both existing Retirees in Thailand, and to all Marriage and Business etc long stay Visas, at their next annual extension application. The reason for the ridiculous fees was the inclusion of outpatient coverage - which they refused to drop. It is clear to me that some very Junta Govt 'influencer' Thais own insurance companies, and they wanted to make more money from 'rich' Expats. Covid crashed all that and I do believe there will be an announcement soon about the existing health insurance mandated for all new O-A applications (they might remove it).

Govt control and regulation of the Thai health insurance industry, like many others, is very loose and disjointed and some would say corrupted. Even for Thais it can be a nightmare getting matters addressed, but for an alien who has all the legal rights of a tourist in Thailand, it is extremely unlikely to be resolved positively - like it would in our home countries.  Therefore, I will be very cautious and distrusting if/when I organise health insurance next time we live there - and building up a pool of funds to use for annual extensions and for medical costs is definitely my preferred option (with a cheap basic coverage for the first few years). 

 

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13 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Please provide a link to any Immigrant Visa for entry into Thailand. OK so you agree that.

It may be semantics, but that is how the law works. But lets agree to disagree. 

I don't know of any but that deflects from the non immigrant ≠ Tourist, but as you say lets move on.

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