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Medical Insurance in Thailand


AussieBob

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I had a whale of a time when trying to get Bangkok Hospital Korat to give me a price for a back operation 5 years ago. They wanted a blank cheque and when it became obvious to them that there was no way i was going along with that shit they threatened to show me the door lol

To cut a long story short they finally agreed that i would'nt be charged anymore than 115K baht unless there were complications, in fact the final bill came to 106K baht !!!

I have now found a Government/Private hospital that does'nt attempt to rip off its customers and provides an excellent service with all the facilities and doctors/surgeons that one would ever need. Medical insurance is a no no for me as my age and pre-existing conditions mean i am uninsurable.

Customer perspective - I think Bangkok Hospitals nationwide in Thailand provide an excellent service as long as someone else is paying the bill ie insurance companies lol

 

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2 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

I had a whale of a time when trying to get Bangkok Hospital Korat to give me a price for a back operation 5 years ago. They wanted a blank cheque and when it became obvious to them that there was no way i was going along with that shit they threatened to show me the door lol

To cut a long story short they finally agreed that i would'nt be charged anymore than 115K baht unless there were complications, in fact the final bill came to 106K baht !!!

I have now found a Government/Private hospital that does'nt attempt to rip off its customers and provides an excellent service with all the facilities and doctors/surgeons that one would ever need. Medical insurance is a no no for me as my age and pre-existing conditions mean i am uninsurable.

Customer perspective - I think Bangkok Hospitals nationwide in Thailand provide an excellent service as long as someone else is paying the bill ie insurance companies lol

 

Can you let us know whereabouts in Thailand you have found this Hospital.

Any tips on how to select the 'right' Hospital and how to register as a patient.

 

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Just now, AussieBob said:

Can you let us know whereabouts in Thailand you have found this Hospital.

Any tips on how to select the 'right' Hospital and how to register as a patient.

 

Further to that question - has anyone done any research into how to find and use a decent/quality 'ambulance' service in Thailand. I understand they are rubbish compared to genuine ambulances in the west, and they are unregulated, and they are like the tow-truck industry who focus on being first there and 'owning' the towing 'right' after a car accident. But has anyone gone into the processes and found out how to stop somchai (who watched a video) and his mate pornee (who sleep through the video) turning up and throwing you in the back of their pickup and taking you to the most expensive private hospital and earning a 500 baht 'finders fee' ? 

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I was listening to Fabulous 103 today and heard the advertisement for Magna Carta loans when an idea sprouted in my tiny brain....

At the moment my premiums with Pacific Cross are affordable and manageable but I realise that one day they won't be.

What do you think of the concept of self insurance using a condo as collateral for a loan (with anybody!) using the following criteria?

- Condo is registered at the Land Office for more than 2 Million.

- You have a guaranteed income greater than 50,000 Baht a month

- You have a couple of thousand in the bank as initial payment for the operation

I'm guessing the risks are that you won't get a loan in the hour of need or you die on the operating table ... but then again the pessimist in me says that there is no guarantee that the Health Insurance Company will pay up either.

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23 minutes ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

I was listening to Fabulous 103 today and heard the advertisement for Magna Carta loans when an idea sprouted in my tiny brain....

At the moment my premiums with Pacific Cross are affordable and manageable but I realise that one day they won't be.

What do you think of the concept of self insurance using a condo as collateral for a loan (with anybody!) using the following criteria?

- Condo is registered at the Land Office for more than 2 Million.

- You have a guaranteed income greater than 50,000 Baht a month

- You have a couple of thousand in the bank as initial payment for the operation

I'm guessing the risks are that you won't get a loan in the hour of need or you die on the operating table ... but then again the pessimist in me says that there is no guarantee that the Health Insurance Company will pay up either.

Interesting thought. Like a 'pre-approved' loan or overdraft for 2 million baht secured by the Condo as collateral. But as you say - what if you die. And of course, where will you live if/when they repossess the Condo to pay the loan and interest and fees due. Interest rates are low in Thailand now - 1% (20K PA) - but what if they were 5% or more.

But is it wise to 'play' with Thai banks - they are worse then the insurance companies IMO.  I doubt they would give any Expat a loan anyway - it would have to be in the Thai wife's name etc. - but we all (should) know what can happen with those sorts of arrangements.

Maybe a 'credit card' in my name though? I was forced to open a credit card account because when hiring a car in Thailand they will not accept cash (the big ones). I had to deposit 20K into a 'special' Thai bank account to then be able to have a credit card for 20K maximum amount so I could hire a car. But would I risk a loan on a condo with a Thai bank so I could have a credit card for the amount of the loan deposited in such an account - nuh.

The biggest problem with being an Expat in Thailand, when things go poo poo, is that you have no/little legal rights. You are wasting your time and money trying to take a Thai insurance company or bank to court if something goes very wrong, or if they do the wrong thing.  You 'publicise' anything about that matter and you will be sent home and blacklisted never to enter again.  Being right aint got nothing to do with it in Thailand - even for Thais. 

I know that some 'expats clubs' have insurance policies than gain 'group' discounts, but I have also heard of how that can go very wrong over time and how some members have paid, but are not actually insured as much as they thought they were - with again very little legal redress available in Thailand.  I would prefer to got it alone with all such serious issues in Thailand - only got myself to blame that way 😄

 

 

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6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Tommy you are indeed so helpful - some would say matriarchal. Thanks for that, but I will say that IMO the public health program at 50K a year is a better option by far. The public cover will not dramatically increase in premiums, and will provide free coverage for all medical services - no limits. 

I am very dubious about the Thai private health insurance industry, having heard many bad stories - and many good ones. The cheaper policies come with conditions like maximum 400K per event, and within that 400K are limits for each category of costs. Therefore to cover it all (which is what it is for really - a bad car accident or serious illness) it costs a bit more than 60K a year - and as you get older the premiums increase - dramatically after 70.  I once did a cost calculation based on 3% annual increase (it will be more if I make a claim), and it totalled over 3 million baht by the time I was 85 (average 150K a year)  Sure there are cheaper plans - but as I pointed out to one bloke - the plan he had for about 40K back then, only paid out 400K for any single event and 100K max for 'hospital costs'.  That might be good for a busted leg or something, but what if he has a serious car accident. He was shocked (he never read the fine print) as his policy claimed '1 million' coverage. Mate I am pedantic (you might have noticed) and I read the fine print and I do the costs forecasting over 20 years.  By the way, you know why there are never any negative stories published about Expats and their medical insurance problems and ripoffs - guaranteed deportation and/or annual extension refusal - the defamation laws in Thailand mean being correct is irrelevant - just ask that British journalist and that Tourist who slagged off on social media about that Hotel.  

When the Thai Govt mandated the very expensive health insurance for all new O-A Visas (Retirement from overseas), the big concern was that same coverage option was going to be applied to both existing Retirees in Thailand, and to all Marriage and Business etc long stay Visas, at their next annual extension application. The reason for the ridiculous fees was the inclusion of outpatient coverage - which they refused to drop. It is clear to me that some very Junta Govt 'influencer' Thais own insurance companies, and they wanted to make more money from 'rich' Expats. Covid crashed all that and I do believe there will be an announcement soon about the existing health insurance mandated for all new O-A applications (they might remove it).

Govt control and regulation of the Thai health insurance industry, like many others, is very loose and disjointed and some would say corrupted. Even for Thais it can be a nightmare getting matters addressed, but for an alien who has all the legal rights of a tourist in Thailand, it is extremely unlikely to be resolved positively - like it would in our home countries.  Therefore, I will be very cautious and distrusting if/when I organise health insurance next time we live there - and building up a pool of funds to use for annual extensions and for medical costs is definitely my preferred option (with a cheap basic coverage for the first few years). 

 

haha, a few things.. 1.. most of the medical isnurance providers are foreign companies, think Axa etc.  obviously chekcing what is covered is a priority I agree.

2.. the tale of the media not reporting is total BS, I am not sure where you get all your info but as someone IN the media, we have reported on numerous occasions as have thai media.  truth is tho tha when you need cover, its best to get pre approved, it saves sitting afterwards, unless an accident, and waiting to be approved which can take ages.  I talk to my insurer  on every occasion and found that they are very helpful.  we had a disagreement about something they thought was a pre existing conditiona few years back, i was able to show them scans showing clear, from 4 yrs before and they were happy.

its simple.  you CANT get the state cover.  as it is, and is in most countries.. expat retirees are not entitled.  your biggest issue, not mine but yours, should be with the NHS , asking why they wont cover you here, after all you paid into THAT for decades I am sure.  that then should be your cage to rattle and not the system here.

without out patients, this plan would be 6K a month at aged 65  ( the plus version btw)

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/maxima-plan/

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31 minutes ago, tommy dee said:

haha, a few things.. 1.. most of the medical isnurance providers are foreign companies, think Axa etc.  obviously chekcing what is covered is a priority I agree.

2.. the tale of the media not reporting is total BS, I am not sure where you get all your info but as someone IN the media, we have reported on numerous occasions as have thai media.  truth is tho tha when you need cover, its best to get pre approved, it saves sitting afterwards, unless an accident, and waiting to be approved which can take ages.  I talk to my insurer  on every occasion and found that they are very helpful.  we had a disagreement about something they thought was a pre existing conditiona few years back, i was able to show them scans showing clear, from 4 yrs before and they were happy.

its simple.  you CANT get the state cover.  as it is, and is in most countries.. expat retirees are not entitled.  your biggest issue, not mine but yours, should be with the NHS , asking why they wont cover you here, after all you paid into THAT for decades I am sure.  that then should be your cage to rattle and not the system here.

without out patients, this plan would be 6K a month at aged 65  ( the plus version btw)

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/maxima-plan/

I hear you - the ones I have looked at are about half and half - Thais and Global.

I think I must defer to your media experience, but you will agree that a tourist was arrested for posting a negative review on a hotel in tripadviser and facebook - and jailed for the weekend - and that a journalist was in serious trouble and had to leave the country for posting a story about a businessman that was found guilty of robbing workers. Thailand defamation laws are extreme - and they are often used by some Thai people and organisations to silence critics.

With regards to insurance, I am more looking at an arrangement that covers a major incident that could cost millions of baht - like a car accident or heart attack/stroke that results in serious complications and expensive medical treatment.   Yes I am aware you can talk to the insurance company before having a procedure - I know of several blokes who have had minor procedures done after contacting the insurance company and either fully or partially covered. I am also aware of a bloke that had a brain tumour and was denied coverage because his wife told a doctor that he had some headaches many years ago - they ruled pre-existing condition - even though he was never examined or diagnosed with the problem - he had to pay - recovered enough to come back to Australia.

Not sure what you mean by NHS - we Aussies have Medicare - and all hospital treatments and aftercare is free - and most medications are either free (when over 65/70) or heavily discounted - the PBS scheme.  But regarding the Thai system, I am not shaking the cage, I am happy to pay 50K a year to join it, but I know I do not qualify - wish I could.

But regarding an Expat winning a court case against a Thai or Thai company - I will go with Tim at the Thaiger - he has experienced and seen enough - I would have a chickens teeth chance of winning. 

Pacific Cross is one of the good ones - I have checked out their prices and coverage before and one of my mates uses them. But like me he is worried about the costs over 20 years as he gets older. As per your link the Maxima Plus is 91K at 65 and the prices stop there. The last time I got their rates for each year from 65 upwards, it went up and up a lot each year - and if a recall it was over 300K per year when I hit 80.  The way I see it, Pacific Cross is a good option up until I reach 70, but then it gets less cost effective, and at 75 it becomes way too much, and at 80 it will be unaffordable. I figure 5 early years of saving 100-200 a year in a fund (or some deal like @Derek Dangleberries is talking about ) and then topping that up each year as required, means that once I am 75 there will be enough for just about anything - and it is my money still.  Plus we could take it home with us if we decided to come back to Aust again if/when China takes over and mandates 14 day reporting of all aliens and tattooed numbers on our foreheads 😅  

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9 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Tommy you are indeed so helpful - some would say matriarchal. Thanks for that, but I will say that IMO the public health program at 50K a year is a better option by far. The public cover will not dramatically increase in premiums, and will provide free coverage for all medical services - no limits. 

I am very dubious about the Thai private health insurance industry, having heard many bad stories - and many good ones. The cheaper policies come with conditions like maximum 400K per event, and within that 400K are limits for each category of costs. Therefore to cover it all (which is what it is for really - a bad car accident or serious illness) it costs a bit more than 60K a year - and as you get older the premiums increase - dramatically after 70.  I once did a cost calculation based on 3% annual increase (it will be more if I make a claim), and it totalled over 3 million baht by the time I was 85 (average 150K a year)  Sure there are cheaper plans - but as I pointed out to one bloke - the plan he had for about 40K back then, only paid out 400K for any single event and 100K max for 'hospital costs'.  That might be good for a busted leg or something, but what if he has a serious car accident. He was shocked (he never read the fine print) as his policy claimed '1 million' coverage. Mate I am pedantic (you might have noticed) and I read the fine print and I do the costs forecasting over 20 years.  By the way, you know why there are never any negative stories published about Expats and their medical insurance problems and ripoffs - guaranteed deportation and/or annual extension refusal - the defamation laws in Thailand mean being correct is irrelevant - just ask that British journalist and that Tourist who slagged off on social media about that Hotel.  

When the Thai Govt mandated the very expensive health insurance for all new O-A Visas (Retirement from overseas), the big concern was that same coverage option was going to be applied to both existing Retirees in Thailand, and to all Marriage and Business etc long stay Visas, at their next annual extension application. The reason for the ridiculous fees was the inclusion of outpatient coverage - which they refused to drop. It is clear to me that some very Junta Govt 'influencer' Thais own insurance companies, and they wanted to make more money from 'rich' Expats. Covid crashed all that and I do believe there will be an announcement soon about the existing health insurance mandated for all new O-A applications (they might remove it).

Govt control and regulation of the Thai health insurance industry, like many others, is very loose and disjointed and some would say corrupted. Even for Thais it can be a nightmare getting matters addressed, but for an alien who has all the legal rights of a tourist in Thailand, it is extremely unlikely to be resolved positively - like it would in our home countries.  Therefore, I will be very cautious and distrusting if/when I organise health insurance next time we live there - and building up a pool of funds to use for annual extensions and for medical costs is definitely my preferred option (with a cheap basic coverage for the first few years). 

 

I am here on a non o retirement extension which does not require insurance for Renewal. But if you are here on an on a Non 0A you will need insurance and strangely enough the government insurance which I have and the Social Security making is not accepted as insurance for those renewals despite being complete covered and being the government's own insurance. It has to be private insurance. If they ever start making Non a holders to have insurance to renew I will have to take another policy privately silly as it is that's their rule

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18 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Can you let us know whereabouts in Thailand you have found this Hospital.

Any tips on how to select the 'right' Hospital and how to register as a patient.

 

Surananee University Hospital in Korat, well its actually circa 20kms out of Korat on the Pak Chong Tai road but no probs as it only takes 30 mins in the car. I discovered it along with most other farangs that live here who self insure. It has all the necessary equipment/doctors/surgeons that you will ever need, CAT, MRI, CT, Brain scans are readily available and the real biggie is that unlike the totally private hospitals Bangkok Hospital and St Marys they are not looking to make a sizable profit from patients. Charges are the cheapest i've ever experienced, i had 3 nights in a private room, brain scan, nursing care and all for 27K baht.

Now when i questioned wifey about this hospital and their charges she tells me that Thais also pay for treatment there albeit at a very low rate and farangs get CHARGED THE SAME. Many Thais would rather pay a small amount at this hospital than go to Maharat Government hospital which is FREE but also very very BUSY and you will spend all day there attending an appointment.

Farangs also benefit from an American doctor who works at SUT and he's like our GP's, you see him and if you need specialist care he will arrange the appointment with them.

All in all farangs here in Korat all go to SUT Hospital for the above reasons, its a no brainer.   

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On 6/26/2022 at 7:54 PM, Yesitisdakid said:

I am here on a non o retirement extension which does not require insurance for Renewal. But if you are here on an on a Non 0A you will need insurance and strangely enough the government insurance which I have and the Social Security making is not accepted as insurance for those renewals despite being complete covered and being the government's own insurance. It has to be private insurance. If they ever start making Non a holders to have insurance to renew I will have to take another policy privately silly as it is that's their rule

Yep - the Thailand bureaucracy is extremely disorganised - across all services. Besides having confusing and conflicting Federal regulations, they also have the same between the Provinces. Not an easy place to live when it comes to dealing with all levels of the bureaucracy - but it makes up for it in many other ways.

As I said before, there was talk that they were going to impose that private insurance requirement on all 'retirement extensions' and then across to all non-resident Visas. Covid stopped that discussion progressing, but I sure do hope that it does not become the situation long term. However, if it ever does, I think that your Thai coverage might be accepted by a local friendly IO as adequate - that is one of the advantages - local authorities have autonomy and are not tightly controlled by strictly enforced Federal requirements.

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23 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Surananee University Hospital in Korat, well its actually circa 20kms out of Korat on the Pak Chong Tai road but no probs as it only takes 30 mins in the car. I discovered it along with most other farangs that live here who self insure. It has all the necessary equipment/doctors/surgeons that you will ever need, CAT, MRI, CT, Brain scans are readily available and the real biggie is that unlike the totally private hospitals Bangkok Hospital and St Marys they are not looking to make a sizable profit from patients. Charges are the cheapest i've ever experienced, i had 3 nights in a private room, brain scan, nursing care and all for 27K baht.

Now when i questioned wifey about this hospital and their charges she tells me that Thais also pay for treatment there albeit at a very low rate and farangs get CHARGED THE SAME. Many Thais would rather pay a small amount at this hospital than go to Maharat Government hospital which is FREE but also very very BUSY and you will spend all day there attending an appointment.

Farangs also benefit from an American doctor who works at SUT and he's like our GP's, you see him and if you need specialist care he will arrange the appointment with them.

All in all farangs here in Korat all go to SUT Hospital for the above reasons, its a no brainer.   

Thanks mate - much appreciated - sounds like a great place. 

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On 6/28/2022 at 8:54 AM, AussieBob said:

Thanks mate - much appreciated - sounds like a great place. 

It certainly is for self insuring farangs. I used to flit between the private hospitals but just got fed up with their constant attempts at ripping off customers with their ridiculous high charges. Just one example - the cost of seeing a doc in these private hospitals was 400bht which in itself is not expensive but you would end up seeing more than one doc most of the time, now in SUT hospital the charge for seeing a doc is 50bht.

I rest my case lol

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