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Trying to setup things for after I am gone (US and Thailand)


ChiFlyer

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There is an earlier thread in this forum that speaks to this topic, but I thought that I had a significant enough different process in mind to warrant a breakout thread.

Earlier thread

I am not legally married to my Thai wife. I would legally marry her, except that could produce serious problems with the execution of my US will. I have grandchildren and I would like to target my US assets that I do not piss away to them so that they can have some assistance to attend good colleges, if they want to. I am not really all that close to my family, but I am grateful for the efforts of the bloodline that gave me a chance at a better life than my predecessors. Their efforts, a lot of dumb luck, the assistance of many good people, and me working my ass off -> got this former street kid from Chicago out of the hood and into a suit and tie, which I later got rid of.

Anyway what I set off to accomplish US-Thai will wise.

  • I have a US will that leaves all of my US assets (about 90% of my value) to my two sons. I have discussed this at length with my older son (who is my estate executor). We have included the younger son on all communications and he is ok with things. Basically, they are aware of the existence of my Thai will and Thai wife, which leaves all Thai financial assets to the Thai Wife. This is not a trivial amount. My sons have no problems with that. They are probably grateful that she rather than they is dealing with me at this stage in my dotage. 🙂
  • I have already put all physical Thai assets (car, motor bike, houses) in the Thai wife's name. Hope she doesn't get mad at me about some silly indiscretion. 🙂
  • In order to address Thai financial assets I had a Thai will written by a Thai lawyer. That lawyer was recommended to me by a friend who had a similar situation. Basically  the main item is my bank account. I like the @forcebwithu idea of giving her signature authority on my accounts, but I am not quite ready to do that. Ok, I am a little anal retentive at times. 🙂
  • What I understand to be the most difficult part of this process on the Thai side is the probate process, which can be very lengthy and expensive. This is the reason that I went with a Thai law firm, so that the Thai wife had legal expertise to follow up with if she wanted to. I recommended that she do this, but I guess that I will not have much to say when the time occurs. 🙂

 

 

Edited by ChiFlyer
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Good plans mate. This may be irrelevant to how it works in Thailand but I have the same situation as you hrrebin the Philippines. 

Probate is a pretty costly, but more importantly, time consuming process here. Knowing this I consulted the attorney who drew up my will and he advised that probate can be done while you are still alive. It is just a process to verify that the will is genuine. 

Perhaps it can also be handled this way where you are! Certainly worth asking. 

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re thailand.  I recommend my own plan, of my own design.  1) TOny and Magna carta are NAMED as the executors of my will, 2)  We have a pre agreed % rate for their fee which is in writing.  so that thailand taken care of really.

even if your wife/partner is on your bank account, it is illegal for her to withdraw one cent from your account after you die and before probate.  ask any proper lawyer for details on that!

 

but presume you arent too close to croaking, so spend spend spend while you can 🙂

 

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10 minutes ago, Freee!! said:

Inheritance tax is paid by those receiving the inheritance.

Yes I know that 

what I’m saying it might be better to turn your assets into money and give them the money before you die so they won’t have to pay any tax . 

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4 hours ago, Homor said:

Sounds like a good plan to me . 
but what about inheritance tax ? Does your Thai wife have to pay anything or your family back in America? .

I am leaving only financial assets to my US heirs. Those are exempt from inheritance taxes unless one is at a Michael Jordan level. I covered all of this with the experienced attorney who wrote the will as well as the financial institute that holds said financial resources.

There is a potential significant hit in the US. That is at this time a large percentage of said financial resources are held in a self-managed IRA. At the time of my death, the IRA will have to be fully liquidated into my other account. At that time the entire amount will be fully taxable on my final IRS filing.

My estate executor (my older son) has been informed of all of this and I suggested that he hires the same lawyer to take care of this. That fee can be charged to the estate rather than himself.

To my knowledge, there is no Thai inheritance tax.

And in general, no I am not near death (as far as I know anyway). 🙄

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What I have done 

My wife gets every thing .the thai house on her land would automatically become unencumbered as I loaned her a big chunk of the construction cost  but have never requested payment ( bank of nick ) back in nz my sister is co executor with my wife ( to help with legal stuff and her old uni buddy is a uni teacher here in Thailand is also on board now good friend to my wife)

Nz side wife my thai wife gets everything except my remaining liquid assets ( spend spend) which would go to my my 2 adult daughters ( who never contact me from 1 year to the next) but make the will hard to contest if I leave them something  

She could then sell one of the bits of nz land that is in my name and keep our new nz house ( jointly owned) and live comfortably but not rich 

If she goes before me her thai assets become his and he gets 25% of my assets along with my adult grandson ( long story ) and my daughters kids get 50% 

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17 hours ago, tommy dee said:

re thailand.  I recommend my own plan, of my own design.  1) TOny and Magna carta are NAMED as the executors of my will, 2)  We have a pre agreed % rate for their fee which is in writing.  so that thailand taken care of really.

even if your wife/partner is on your bank account, it is illegal for her to withdraw one cent from your account after you die and before probate.  ask any proper lawyer for details on that!

but presume you arent too close to croaking, so spend spend spend while you can 🙂

Something I've advised my lady on, that it would be illegal for her to withdraw funds on a joint account after my demise. Don't know if anyone would want to go through the time and expense of prosecuting her as the amounts would be relatively small.

My work around to avoid probate is after my will in the US goes through probate and the funds released, my children will wire a sum to my lady to tide her over in her remaining years. Additionally I just recently had her open a bank account in her own name and she then gave me the ATM card and logon credentials for online banking. I then transferred most of my Thailand funds into that account and will transfer back to my personal accounts money as needed for month to month expenses. That way if I suddenly croak she has the bulk of my money free and clear of an legal hurdles.

Doing the above has also given her peace of mind that, while not married, we'll be together for the long haul. After 10 years together she deserves that much and more.

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13 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

I am leaving only financial assets to my US heirs. Those are exempt from inheritance taxes unless one is at a Michael Jordan level. I covered all of this with the experienced attorney who wrote the will as well as the financial institute that holds said financial resources.

There is a potential significant hit in the US. That is at this time a large percentage of said financial resources are held in a self-managed IRA. At the time of my death, the IRA will have to be fully liquidated into my other account. At that time the entire amount will be fully taxable on my final IRS filing.

My estate executor (my older son) has been informed of all of this and I suggested that he hires the same lawyer to take care of this. That fee can be charged to the estate rather than himself.

To my knowledge, there is no Thai inheritance tax.

And in general, no I am not near death (as far as I know anyway). 🙄

I said something wrong in this post.

When only financial assets are involved, said assets are exempt from probate, not inheritance tax. I have been advised that any inheritance tax should be small. I think in the US that the probate rules vary by state.

See a lawyer. I am not an attorney.

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On 10/8/2022 at 10:52 AM, tommy dee said:

but presume you arent too close to croaking, so spend spend spend while you can

I keep telling people this, they can't take it with them, but many of my mates in their late 60's or older seem to have suddenly found the joy of saving, even if wifey and the kids are already well taken care of. What do these guys think they're doing, have they forgotten that there are lots of hungry Thai girls eager to show them a fun time in exchange for a teeny bit of their filthy lucre, lol? 

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On 10/8/2022 at 4:52 PM, tommy dee said:

even if your wife/partner is on your bank account, it is illegal for her to withdraw one cent from your account after you die and before probate.  ask any proper lawyer for details on that!

 

22 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Something I've advised my lady on, that it would be illegal for her to withdraw funds on a joint account after my demise.

Now i'm really surprised at these statements, are you sure that is the case ? i was under the impression that having your wifey/partner named on your account or having the account in joint names was to facilitate her having access to the accounts, otherwise what is the point ?

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15 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Now i'm really surprised at these statements, are you sure that is the case ? i was under the impression that having your wifey/partner named on your account or having the account in joint names was to facilitate her having access to the accounts, otherwise what is the point ?

Best check with a lawyer to confirm. In my case she's on less tenuous ground as we're not married. 

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1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

But she's named on the account, so what's the point of this if she cannot withdraw money in the event of your demise ?

Until the bank is notified of my demise, and I can't imagine the process being terribly efficient, she can still access and withdraw the money. The legality of doing so is something she'll have to deal with as at that point in time my interest in world affairs will be nil. :default_biggrin:

Edited by forcebwithu
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14 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

But she's named on the account, so what's the point of this if she cannot withdraw money in the event of your demise ?

It's a good point you're making. Maybe best simply to go and ask your bank rather than faff around with lawyers, they're the ones who ultimately have the power over your account after all.

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14 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

But she's named on the account, so what's the point of this if she cannot withdraw money in the event of your demise ?

Ask for confirmation from the bank in writing then peace of mind ...... see you soon mate !!

Make sure that German fella has some decent wine to match his great food .....

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14 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Until the bank is notified of my demise, and I can't imagine the process being terribly efficient, she can still access and withdraw the money. The legality of doing so is something she'll have to deal with as at that point in time my interest in world affairs will be nil. :default_biggrin:

I spoke about this with both a Thai lawyer and an Aussie lawyer. The later is well known as a speaker at ex-pat groups. Both confirmed that the Thai probate process is indeed involved and slow. Both estimated best case to be about 3 months and 6 months was possible. These estimates are with someone knowledgeable riding herd on the process. Were they trying to scare me a little? Probably.

Still, this is a main reason for not having a non-Thai estate executor with regard to Thai assets. One needs someone who will be on the ground for these extended periods of time.

Another item of concern here is the release of the death certificate and who it can be released to. My understanding is that an autopsy is required for any non-Thai National who passes before the age of 80. Geez, I wonder why. First we shake his money tree and then we can charge him for an autopsy. I really do not care about the autopsy, other than it further slows down the process and further erodes the estate. I imagine that the release of the death certificate will likely slow down the resolution of my US will as well. OK - I am going for 80.       

IMO, probably the item that is the most difficult to prepare for is if I stroke and go into a vegetative state. I would like to be released. Does not work well with Buhhdist driven law. I have asked the GF to pillow me, or hire someone who can, if this were to happen. She said ok. 🙂

Maybe I should not ask for that too loudly.

 

 

Edited by ChiFlyer
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19 minutes ago, Nickrock said:

3 to 6 months is normal in many countries with my dad it took almost a year to wind up his estate 

Agreed depending upon the complexity of the estate. That is why I have limited both my Thai and US estates to only financial resources. This simplifies probate, especially in the US.

My mother passed due to dementia. Nothing was in order. It took me two years of work to straighten things out. I ended up receiving 4,000 US for my efforts. I vowed that I would do my best not to revisit this indignity on my heirs. 

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8 hours ago, nampla69 said:

Ask for confirmation from the bank in writing then peace of mind ...... see you soon mate !!

Make sure that German fella has some decent wine to match his great food .....

He won't stock decent imported wine as few expat customers will pay Thailand's ridiculous highly taxed pricing, he supplies Mont Clair boxed wine and if you want better he suggests you bring your own and charges you 100bht per bottle.

Thats what i've always done when i have a celebratory party.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/9/2022 at 9:02 PM, Toy Boy said:

I keep telling people this, they can't take it with them, but many of my mates in their late 60's or older seem to have suddenly found the joy of saving, even if wifey and the kids are already well taken care of.

If your mate is say 66 how long should he plan to live for? 1 year or perhaps 34 years (with some medical costs). Depends on the circumstances, there are many guys these years without much of a pension. Of course if this hypothetical mate has made a plan based on 34 years to go and still has money to burn then it should indeed be party time, don't want to be over cautious.

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  • 3 months later...

My LLLLT (7 years) and I recently purchased a house. This very much changed how I am looking at things.

I asked her to marry me and she said yes. This will be my third marriage and her second. The first two for me both lasted a little over 10 years. At 73 I am not so sure that I will last 10 more years, but hey keep living as long as one can. 🙂

The reasons for doing this are very practical on both of our parts. We are not planning on building a little cabin (ok I guess we did that already) and having a couple of kids (we will not be doing that).

The benefits for her and my US family are should I pass first (probable) :

  • She can receive and administer the administration of my corpse (burn it up please). Might give anyone close by a good high. 🙂
  • She will have a direct path to my Thai financial accounts, which is what I want.
  • She can sign off on a DNR declaration, which is what I want.
  • She can receive a death certificate and share that with my son back in the US more expeditiously.

This will require a Prenup where she declares that neither she nor her heirs have any claims to my US resources that are intended for the education of my grandchildren. She has agreed to this. The prenup will also declare that I have no claims to her houses and land in the Khon Kean area. I have no interest in becoming a rice farmer at this age.

The benefits to me (if she passes before I do - (unlikely but possible) beyond what was stated already are:

  • The items that I need going forward that are in her name (car, motorbike, a condo, ....) are left to me.
  • My US resources are protected from her heirs.
  • Our ownership of our house (and this is the biggie) is protected from her heirs laying claim to it.

Part of the motivation for doing all of this is the often repeated phrase -> "She probably loves you, but her extended family does not".

Edited by ChiFlyer
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