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Wifey's widows pension when i ''Pop me clogs''- Anyone have any knowledge/experiences ?


Pumpuynarak

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When i pop me clogs wifey will be entitled to a widows pension from my private company pension scheme. I have a letter from them detailing their requirements for her to claim but they will not detail any tax liability she will have, they just refer me to HMRC. Now as a Thai citizen who does'nt hold British citizenship and who has never lived or worked in the UK would she be liable to income tax on this pension. Also if she is liable to tax would she receive the personal allowance before the tax is applied ?

I've tried calling the HMRC but getting through to a useful person who can answer my query has proved difficult to say the least.

Her widows pension is not to be sniffed at as its currently 29K gross per year with annual rises of between 1-3%. It makes a massive difference to what she would receive each month if its not taxable/or if it is taxable would she receive the personal allowance before tax is calculated ?

Has anyone any experience/knowledge of this situation and can help me out ? TIA

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2 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

When i pop me clogs wifey will be entitled to a widows pension from my private company pension scheme. I have a letter from them detailing their requirements for her to claim but they will not detail any tax liability she will have, they just refer me to HMRC. Now as a Thai citizen who does'nt hold British citizenship and who has never lived or worked in the UK would she be liable to income tax on this pension. Also if she is liable to tax would she receive the personal allowance before the tax is applied ?

I've tried calling the HMRC but getting through to a useful person who can answer my query has proved difficult to say the least.

Her widows pension is not to be sniffed at as its currently 29K gross per year with annual rises of between 1-3%. It makes a massive difference to what she would receive each month if its not taxable/or if it is taxable would she receive the personal allowance before tax is calculated ?

Has anyone any experience/knowledge of this situation and can help me out ? TIA

 

As it's the company pension you're concerned about, can't you give your pension fund a bell and see if they can help?

 

 

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The pension is from a UK source, so taxable in the UK. 

Wifey is not entitled to a personal allowance under UK domestic legislation, but might be able to claim it under the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Convention. 

Edited by Bazle
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18 minutes ago, Bazle said:

The pension is from a UK source, so taxable in the UK. 

Wifey is not entitled to a personal allowance under UK domestic legislation, but might be able to claim it under the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Convention. 

Wifey will need to complete Form R43 - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1143859/R43_Manual__2023.pdf

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With my British Airways pension my wife is entitled to a certain figure based on my full pension. There is a small detail though that will reduce her pension. My wife is 32 years younger than me and the stipulation is that it is OK if she is 10 years or less younger than me, she would then get the full widows pension amount but for every year younger than that 10 year threshold she will receive 1.25% less. 

Therefore she will receive a 27.5% reduction in the widows pension which is quite significant. (22 x 1.25)

Of course, if your wife is nearer to your age this may not be an issue. It may also be that your pension scheme doesn't apply that reduction.

As others have said, you would be best to talk with your scheme. 

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I've just checked my pension scheme quote...... As my wife is 11 years my junior she will receive 50% of the amount quoted as a spouses pension. 

I think pump needs to check his scheme again to clarify what his wife would actually receive. 

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19 hours ago, Toy Boy said:

 

As it's the company pension you're concerned about, can't you give your pension fund a bell and see if they can help?

 

 

Yes indeed, i have contacted them requesting tax payable info but they just refer me to the HMRC. Not very helpful at all.

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16 hours ago, Horizondave said:

With my British Airways pension my wife is entitled to a certain figure based on my full pension. There is a small detail though that will reduce her pension. My wife is 32 years younger than me and the stipulation is that it is OK if she is 10 years or less younger than me, she would then get the full widows pension amount but for every year younger than that 10 year threshold she will receive 1.25% less. 

Therefore she will receive a 27.5% reduction in the widows pension which is quite significant. (22 x 1.25)

Of course, if your wife is nearer to your age this may not be an issue. It may also be that your pension scheme doesn't apply that reduction.

As others have said, you would be best to talk with your scheme. 

Wifey is 31 years younger than me but my pension provider does'nt apply any reduction i'm happy to say. 

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5 hours ago, Aqualung said:

I've just checked my pension scheme quote...... As my wife is 11 years my junior she will receive 50% of the amount quoted as a spouses pension. 

I think pump needs to check his scheme again to clarify what his wife would actually receive. 

Wifey gets 50% of my pension -

 

22 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Her widows pension is not to be sniffed at as its currently 29K gross per year

 

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30 minutes ago, Bazle said:

Yes. 

If resident in the UK right? If non-resident for tax purposes than i think just need a letter from HMRC with NR status confirmed.

I cashed in my company pension and now the amount is in a UK pension approved investment fund ROPS) and the full amount (not a large amount) goes to my wife on my death.

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3 hours ago, Zambo said:

If resident in the UK right? If non-resident for tax purposes than i think just need a letter from HMRC with NR status confirmed.

In simple terms, to get the personal allowance you have to be a resident or citizen of the UK. 

What would be the purpose of such a letter? 

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28 minutes ago, Bazle said:

In simple terms, to get the personal allowance you have to be a resident or citizen of the UK. 

What would be the purpose of such a letter? 

I didn't mean that and don't think it's the case. I was referring to filling in tax forms for HMRC. If registered non-resident for UK tax purposes no forms unless circumstances change.

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So, my understanding is that should a wife have UK residency ( by way of a British passport) but primarily reside in Thailand then they would have the usual tax allowance of £12,750 ( at todays rate) and should the pension income be the same amount then there would be no tax to pay. 

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8 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Wifey is 31 years younger than me but my pension provider does'nt apply any reduction i'm happy to say. 

You are a very lucky man then, well done and wifey will be well taken care of.... a long way in the future of course lol

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1 hour ago, AJSP said:

So, my understanding is that should a wife have UK residency ( by way of a British passport) but primarily reside in Thailand then they would have the usual tax allowance of £12,750 ( at todays rate) and should the pension income be the same amount then there would be no tax to pay. 

A UK passport doesn't make you UK tax resident. Maybe Google "UK Statutory Residence Test". 

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2 hours ago, Zambo said:

I didn't mean that and don't think it's the case. I was referring to filling in tax forms for HMRC. If registered non-resident for UK tax purposes no forms unless circumstances change.

I'm not sure what you mean. 

What do you think is not the case? 

Being non-UK resident doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have to file a UK tax return. 

Some people will even want to do so, even if not requested by HMRC, in order to reclaim tax deducted at source from UK income - e.g. the form R43 I mentioned above. 

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58 minutes ago, Bazle said:

I'm not sure what you mean. 

What do you think is not the case? 

Being non-UK resident doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have to file a UK tax return. 

Some people will even want to do so, even if not requested by HMRC, in order to reclaim tax deducted at source from UK income - e.g. the form R43 I mentioned above. 

I am talking about informing HMRC of your overseas status and that being agreed as non-resident for tax purposes (this does not relate to your citizenship). 

But you have raised a very good point that i had not considered. I didn't know or even think that the pension would deduct tax at source. That being the case of course you have to claim the tax back.

 

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I only have one main Pension, my Local Government Pension Scheme one, where i have worked for the past 15 years and continue to work bar a big lottery win :default_biggrin:. I had a couple of other small ones, but got them amalgamated into this one.

My wife's name is on the Death in Service, and Survivors Benefits Pension, Death Grants when i die whenever, via Expression of Wishes form.

As far as i'm aware, apart from a death in service which is quite a big lump and smaller yearly pension, Death Grant if i die under 75, when i die she'll get  -

Your spouse, civil partner or eligible cohabiting partner will receive part of your pension. It will be paid for the rest of their life. Generally, this is:

  • 30.625% of the pension you built up from April 2014
  • 37.50% of the pension you built up between April 2008 and March 2014
  • 50% of the pension you built up before April 2008.

I wasn't aware of the age thing, Sa's 11 years younger. 

Think i'll call them on Monday to clarify a few things, age, tax, if she then moves back to Thailand which would be a strong possibility if we weren't already living there etc.

I have 3 properties as well, which would go to  both my girls, so they'll be fine, but i don't plan on dying anytime soon, i have Manta Rays and Whale Sharks to get to know first.

Edit - Also, hope you're just being prudent @Pumpuynarak, i know you had a few health issues, but hope you're okay. 

Edited by Krapow
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1 hour ago, Krapow said:

I only have one main Pension, my Local Government Pension Scheme one, where i have worked for the past 15 years and continue to work bar a big lottery win :default_biggrin:. I had a couple of other small ones, but got them amalgamated into this one.

My wife's name is on the Death in Service, and Survivors Benefits Pension, Death Grants when i die whenever, via Expression of Wishes form.

As far as i'm aware, apart from a death in service which is quite a big lump and smaller yearly pension, Death Grant if i die under 75, when i die she'll get  -

Your spouse, civil partner or eligible cohabiting partner will receive part of your pension. It will be paid for the rest of their life. Generally, this is:

  • 30.625% of the pension you built up from April 2014
  • 37.50% of the pension you built up between April 2008 and March 2014
  • 50% of the pension you built up before April 2008.

I wasn't aware of the age thing, Sa's 11 years younger. 

Think i'll call them on Monday to clarify a few things, age, tax, if she then moves back to Thailand which would be a strong possibility if we weren't already living there etc.

I have 3 properties as well, which would go to  both my girls, so they'll be fine, but i don't plan on dying anytime soon, i have Manta Rays and Whale Sharks to get to know first.

Edit - Also, hope you're just being prudent @Pumpuynarak, i know you had a few health issues, but hope you're okay. 

Get yourself a trust for properties. More informed on here than me though

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5 hours ago, Krapow said:

Edit - Also, hope you're just being prudent @Pumpuynarak, i know you had a few health issues, but hope you're okay. 

Thank mate, i'm ok but the last couple of years with health issues has made me want to ensure my little darling gets everything she's entitled to and i prepare accordingly so she gets her widows pension asap when i'm gone. I've got a mate here whose considerably younger than me whose going to sort out things for her, he's going to be well briefed by me very shortly.  

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17 hours ago, Bazle said:

In simple terms, to get the personal allowance you have to be a resident or citizen of the UK. 

What would be the purpose of such a letter? 

Here is some info i found which i believe may contradict your statement but i could be wrong lol........

 

"(1) The nationals of a Contracting State shall not be subjected in the other Contracting State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which nationals of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected."

 

If a Thai national subject to UK tax did not receive the personal allowance that nationals of the UK are entitled. The Thai national UK tax would be more burdensome.

 

In addition from the HMRC Thailand is on the following list 

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm10340

Edited by Pumpuynarak
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