Some Just Don't Get It

[forcebwithu]

I sympathize with those that are built large, and agree with one point in the article below that airlines should standardize their policies when dealing with super-sized self loading cargo, but it's nonsense to call seat policies discriminatory.

When an airline lifts cargo into the sky, size and weight directly effects operating cost. That's not discriminatory, that's economics. It's nonsense to expect airlines not to charge for the extra space plus-sized cargo takes up. An acceptable compromise is what some airlines do and that is sell two seats to one person and if the flight isn't fully booked, the passenger can request a refund of the one seat after the flight.

‘We’re paying twice for the same experience’: Plus-size travelers hit out at ‘discriminatory’ airline seat policies

...
“We need the policies to be a little bit more standardized,” Chaney tells CNN Travel. “At the bare minimum, we need every airline to have a policy that tells people of size how to navigate their airline.”

Charles Leocha, co-founder of airline consumer advocacy group Travelers United, shares this sentiment.

“All plus-sized passengers are appreciative of knowing the rules,” he adds. “It eliminates many misunderstandings.”
...
Outside of the US, the Australian Consumer Law prohibits airlines from charging passengers different amounts based on their body sizes.

Meanwhile, the “one person, one fare” (1p1f) policy, which prevented domestic airlines Air Canada, Air Canada Jazz and WestJet from charging passengers requiring an extra seat for more than one fare, was passed by the Canadian Transportation Agency in 2008.

Obesity is recognized as a disability in Canada, and passengers must be considered “functionally disabled by obesity,” to meet the requirements for a free extra seat.
...

One of the various demands listed in Chaney’s petition, which had received over 17,000 signatures at the time of writing, is that all airlines “provide accessible additional seats to customers-of-size” who may require more space or “encroach onto another passenger’s space.”

“These passengers should be provided with an extra free seat, or even multiple seats, to accommodate their needs and ensure their comfort and safety, as well as those around them, during the flight,” reads the petition.
...
Chaney feels that airline policies that require plus size travelers to buy an extra seat while flying are “discriminatory,” pointing out that passengers like her are “paying twice for the same experience.”

“People with smaller bodies get to pay one fare to get to their destination,” she says. “And we have to pay two fares, even though we’re getting the same experience. If anything, our experiences are a little bit more challenging.”
...
Canadian air passenger rights advocate Gabor Lukacs says he views the practice of charging larger passengers for two seats as a human rights issue.

“Being a large-size person is not a choice, as many people mistakenly believe,” Lukacs tells CNN Travel.

“There is, unfortunately, a lot of negative attention and prejudice against plus-sized people.

“But it’s not as if someone is getting up in the morning and making a decision that they’re going to be a large person.

“So through that lens of human rights, I don’t see any justification for charging these people a double fare.”
...

Edited June 13, 2023 by forcebwithu

[Trip]

1 hour ago, forcebwithu said:

I sympathize with those that are built large, and agree with one point in the article below that airlines should standardize their policies when dealing with super-sized self loading cargo, but it's nonsense to call seat policies discriminatory.

When an airline lifts cargo into the sky, size and weight directly effects operating cost. That's not discriminatory, that's economics. It's nonsense to expect airlines not to charge for the extra space plus-sized cargo takes up. An acceptable compromise is what some airlines do and that is sell two seats to one person and if the flight isn't fully booked, the passenger can request a refund of the one seat after the flight.

‘We’re paying twice for the same experience’: Plus-size travelers hit out at ‘discriminatory’ airline seat policies

...
“We need the policies to be a little bit more standardized,” Chaney tells CNN Travel. “At the bare minimum, we need every airline to have a policy that tells people of size how to navigate their airline.”

Charles Leocha, co-founder of airline consumer advocacy group Travelers United, shares this sentiment.

“All plus-sized passengers are appreciative of knowing the rules,” he adds. “It eliminates many misunderstandings.”
...
Outside of the US, the Australian Consumer Law prohibits airlines from charging passengers different amounts based on their body sizes.

Meanwhile, the “one person, one fare” (1p1f) policy, which prevented domestic airlines Air Canada, Air Canada Jazz and WestJet from charging passengers requiring an extra seat for more than one fare, was passed by the Canadian Transportation Agency in 2008.

Obesity is recognized as a disability in Canada, and passengers must be considered “functionally disabled by obesity,” to meet the requirements for a free extra seat.
...

One of the various demands listed in Chaney’s petition, which had received over 17,000 signatures at the time of writing, is that all airlines “provide accessible additional seats to customers-of-size” who may require more space or “encroach onto another passenger’s space.”

“These passengers should be provided with an extra free seat, or even multiple seats, to accommodate their needs and ensure their comfort and safety, as well as those around them, during the flight,” reads the petition.
...
Chaney feels that airline policies that require plus size travelers to buy an extra seat while flying are “discriminatory,” pointing out that passengers like her are “paying twice for the same experience.”

“People with smaller bodies get to pay one fare to get to their destination,” she says. “And we have to pay two fares, even though we’re getting the same experience. If anything, our experiences are a little bit more challenging.”
...
Canadian air passenger rights advocate Gabor Lukacs says he views the practice of charging larger passengers for two seats as a human rights issue.

“Being a large-size person is not a choice, as many people mistakenly believe,” Lukacs tells CNN Travel.

“There is, unfortunately, a lot of negative attention and prejudice against plus-sized people.

“But it’s not as if someone is getting up in the morning and making a decision that they’re going to be a large person.

“So through that lens of human rights, I don’t see any justification for charging these people a double fare.”
...

The solution is really simple but not PC. All transport, especially Air transport, should be by weight and/or volume. Fatties are being subsidized.

[forcebwithu]

9 minutes ago, Trip said:

The solution is really simple but not PC. All transport, especially Air transport, should be by weight and/or volume. Fatties are being subsidized.

A good question to research when I have more time is what % of a flight's cost attributed to passenger weight? My guess it's probably a small % compared to the cost of moving the airplane and all its parts from point A to point B.

That being the case charging a passenger by weight wouldn't be the fairest way to allocate operating costs per passenger. Rather it's the space they take, or as you wrote, the volume.

So in an ideal world economy seating would be flexible in turns of the volume of space they take up. Smaller passengers would get smaller seats and pay less than those that physically require more space. Of course from a practical standpoint that would never work.

That leaves us with the option of if you require more space than the standard seat, pay for it.

[Painter]

Read a similar article earlier. Agree that there should be one rule, but would hate to be the one squashed next to a "plus sized" person who booked a single seat.

I believe it's  Air New Zealand who are going to (voluntarily) weigh passengers, not to determine positioning on the plane, but to carry out longer term research as to the average size/weight of passengers.  They have been at lengths to say that the check in staff will not have access to the passengers weight, but of course "it's against our human rights to be weighed"....

[Derek Dangleberries]

I have always been an advocate for weighing the complete "package" of passenger, checked luggage and carry on stuff but my recent flight with EVA made me also consider the seating measurements.

As you know I have a fat belly but it sticks out in front of me and I've got a sexy little ass that fits easily into the seat. My little legs don't touch the seat in front of me either ...BUT my shoulders and arms extended over the arm rest on one side and into the aisle on the other side such that the trolley dollys were bumping me every time they went past. If there was another passenger next to me it would have been physically impossible to move to one side.

Seat measurements need to be reviewed .. they are ridiculously narrow for the average upper body bloke like me !!

[Zambo]

19 minutes ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

 

Seat measurements need to be reviewed .. they are ridiculously narrow for the average upper body bloke like me !!

Are they narrowing the seats? Does this result in the aisles being wider (maybe to accommmodate the supersized) or are they narrowing the entire fuselage/cabin so they can add to airline profits.

[forqalso]

An extra 50 pounds of weight, whether it’s in a seat or in the cargo hold costs about $8 more in fuel on a trans-Pacific flight. An empty seat costs many times more. One unsold ticket @ $1500 is equal to the extra fuel costs of 187 passengers that are 50 lbs overweight. 
 

[Painter]

11 minutes ago, Zambo said:

Are they narrowing the seats? Does this result in the aisles being wider (maybe to accommmodate the supersized) or are they narrowing the entire fuselage/cabin so they can add to airline profits.

Narrowing of seats to allow an extra seat per row?

[Derek Dangleberries]

15 minutes ago, Zambo said:

Are they narrowing the seats? Does this result in the aisles being wider (maybe to accommmodate the supersized) or are they narrowing the entire fuselage/cabin so they can add to airline profits.

 

3 minutes ago, Painter said:

Narrowing of seats to allow an extra seat per row?

As Painter posted ..

This was 3 4 3 seating

[Zambo]

12 minutes ago, forqalso said:

An extra 50 pounds of weight, whether it’s in a seat or in the cargo hold costs about $8 more in fuel on a trans-Pacific flight. An empty seat costs many times more. One unsold ticket @ $1500 is equal to the extra fuel costs of 187 passengers that are 50 lbs overweight. 
 

Wow mathematically challenging. We have to work out the entire weight including the aeroplane selfweight, get some fuel usage figures, be more precise on the origin and destination, analyse seat and baggage charges and then start number crunching.

But is the argument that oversized people discourage ticket sales, or that they should pay for these empty seats? Some of this is self-regulating in that passengers who feel uncomfortably squeezed do often go for premium economy or business class.

[Derek Dangleberries]

Another issue beyond the narrowing of seats is airlines not informing passengers how to lift the aisle armrest!

So many times I see even "normal" sized people struggling to get in and out, especially if the seat in front is pushed back.

I swear one day I will yell out "There is a button underneath at the back!!!!"

Edited June 13, 2023 by Derek Dangleberries

[fygjam]

Travel hackers on TikTok are putting function before fashion in the latest
trend, which sees savvy airline passengers using pocket-laden vests — typically
worn by anglers to carry their myriad gizmos — to carry belongings they can’t fit
into a carry-on.

In a clip with over 1.8 million views, TikTok user @cheapholidayexpert carefully tucks
various items into the many pockets of the vest — including a portable speaker, stick
of deodorant, pack of cards, and bikini. She even manages to shove a laptop into a
larger pocket in the back of the vest.

“After stuffing my pants in a neck pillow and using a duty-free bag, it was only time
before I reached the heady heights of leisurewear,” Cheap Holiday Expert jokes in
the video’s caption.

https://www.escape.com.au/travel-advice/air-travel-hack-using-fishing-gear-works-every-time/news-story/b74440b34c4593695fcb8a269af66be5