Why are UK expats still doing the 800K deposit for retirement extensions ?

[Pumpuynarak]

I pose this question guys cos i'm seeing UK bank deposit interest rates up to as much as 7% when the interest here in Thailand is no more than 2% so i believe. It does'nt make any financial sense to me other than if you don't have 65K monthly income.

 

Now i appreciate if you don't have the 800K or the 65K monthly income you're f***** and have to use an agent or a helpful IO

 

Any thoughts/comments guys ? 

[Aqualung]

My first question to you Pump is..... Where are you seeing 7% interest rates for deposit accounts in the UK.? 

I can't find an ISA with that rate let alone a savings or deposit account. 

More than happy to be proved wrong of course. 

Good question though. 

[Aqualung]

Maybe move this thread to the money section or another to get more interest. 

[Stillearly]

5% are the  highest U.K. savings rates I've seen ..

if we use an exchange rate of 44.00 

THB 800,000 = £18,181.82 

£18,181.82 @ 5% = £909.09 interest for one year 

If you earn 2% on your THB 800,000 that's THB 16,000 interest or £363.64 

so a opportunity cost of £545.45

 

Cost of agency to do visa without regular income or money in the bank THB 18,000 = £409.09  ( I'm not sure if it's correct but that's what I think I read ) 

so if my figures are correct it's only costing you around £136.36 or THB 6,000 over a year ... so not sure it's worth it to not be fully compliant with the visa rules 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Stillearly

[Pumpuynarak]

1 hour ago, Aqualung said:

My first question to you Pump is..... Where are you seeing 7% interest rates for deposit accounts in the UK.? 

I can't find an ISA with that rate let alone a savings or deposit account. 

More than happy to be proved wrong of course. 

Good question though. 

Santander, i saw it headlined in the news but on reflection when i looked in detail its only for a max of £4K lol. The point i was attempting to make was the disparity between UK and Thailand deposit rates and having 800K bht sitting in a Thai account virtually earning no interest when the 65K income method surely was a more astute way of obtaining your retirement extension.

I've always done the income method and have never had a problem well other than some minor hiccups, i just can't get my head around having 800K sitting in a Thai account when i can't withdraw that money on a monthly basis to live on after all said and done the money is for you/us to live on.

The onerous withdrawal conditions on the 800K completely destroy what the money is actually there for imo, TIT and they can FO lol.

[Pumpuynarak]

1 hour ago, Aqualung said:

Maybe move this thread to the money section or another to get more interest. 

I posted the same topic on Asean Now and to date its received 193 posts lol

[Pumpuynarak]

1 hour ago, Stillearly said:

5% are the  highest U.K. savings rates I've seen ..

if we use an exchange rate of 44.00 

THB 800,000 = £18,181.82 

£18,181.82 @ 5% = £909.09 interest for one year 

If you earn 2% on your THB 800,000 that's THB 16,000 interest or £363.64 

so a opportunity cost of £545.45

 

Cost of agency to do visa without regular income or money in the bank THB 18,000 = £409.09  ( I'm not sure if it's correct but that's what I think I read ) 

so if my figures are correct it's only costing you around £136.36 or THB 6,000 over a year ... so not sure it's worth it to not be fully compliant with the visa rules 

 

 

Good post SE but what about if you don't use an agent which i don't - loss of £545.45 and i'm sure i've seen better rates than 5%, maybe 5.62% but i could be wrong lol

Now i take every opportunity to maximise my income and always have done after spending most of my working career in financial services, if there's money to be had i'm gonna have it and £545.45 buys a lot of Chang lol

Perhaps i should do an in depth investigation into EXACTLY what is the maximum deposit rates in the UK lol

[Stillearly]

1 minute ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Good post SE but what about if you don't use an agent which i don't - loss of £545.45 and i'm sure i've seen better rates than 5%, maybe 5.62% but i could be wrong lol

Now i take every opportunity to maximise my income and always have done after spending most of my working career in financial services, if there's money to be had i'm gonna have it and £545.45 buys a lot of Chang lol

Perhaps i should do an in depth investigation into EXACTLY what is the maximum deposit rates in the UK lol

 

But If you don't have the THB 800,000 ( or THB 400,000 for a married man ) sat in a Thai account for the required period , then you need an agent and a friendly bank employee do some "magic" to produce a statement for immigration ...

 

[Pumpuynarak]

4 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

 

But If you don't have the THB 800,000 ( or THB 400,000 for a married man ) sat in a Thai account for the required period , then you need an agent and a friendly bank employee do some "magic" to produce a statement for immigration ...

 

Then you need to go home lol, What about using the 65K/40K monthly income method ? and please don't say but ''its nothing but problems'' because thats all i've ever done with little or no problems for the 16 years i've been living in Thailand.   

[Pumpuynarak]

14 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

 

But If you don't have the THB 800,000 ( or THB 400,000 for a married man ) sat in a Thai account for the required period , then you need an agent and a friendly bank employee do some "magic" to produce a statement for immigration ...

 

I've got two mates who don't have the lump sum dosh or the required income but don't use an agent just a friendly IO and pay 20K bht lol

[forcebwithu]

9 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Then you need to go home lol, What about using the 65K/40K monthly income method ? and please don't say but ''its nothing but problems'' because thats all i've ever done with little or no problems for the 16 years i've been living in Thailand.   

It's great you haven't had a problem in all those years, but you're still at risk if there's a hiccup in one month where the 65K doesn't get deposited. Not that big of deal as an agent or a brown envelope will have it sorted at your next extensio to stay.

Another minor consideration is the Forex exchange rate may be unfavorable in some of the months you're moving money over. If you move money quarterly, semi-annual or annually you can hold off on transfering until rates are favorable. It's what I'm doing.

And as @Stillearly posted, I'm earning enough on my money in the US to more than cover the cost of the agent's fee.

[Aqualung]

35 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

 

But If you don't have the THB 800,000 ( or THB 400,000 for a married man ) sat in a Thai account for the required period , then you need an agent and a friendly bank employee do some "magic" to produce a statement for immigration ...

 

This for me needs to be in the main Forum. I think it's a great and interesting topic by pump and I thank him for bringing it up. 

Fwiw... Was in Ao Nang in January... Met a brainy Canadian chappy and he uses an agency for the 800k. 30k baht to an agency 

[Aqualung]

My question is and I've been wary of asking it for fear of being a complete knob is..... As a married man to a Thai.. 400k and then what monthly income? 

We all here of the combinations of such stuff.. 65,000 baht per month or 800,000 baht in a Thai bank cough cough... What are the connotations if you have 400k and less income as a married couple? 

Pump... Bugger off and watch the saints for a bit....... I can't cope with this stuff lol!!! 

[Pumpuynarak]

10 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

It's great you haven't had a problem in all those years, but you're still at risk if there's a hiccup in one month where the 65K doesn't get deposited. Not that big of deal as an agent or a brown envelope will have it sorted at your next extensio to stay.

Another minor consideration is the Forex exchange rate may be unfavorable in some of the months you're moving money over. If you move money quarterly, semi-annual or annually you can hold off on transfering until rates are favorable. It's what I'm doing.

And as @Stillearly posted, I'm earning enough on my money in the US to more than cover the cost of the agent's fee.

You make some great points G and have got your head screwed on with the way you approach the issue, I've never had a problem with the monies being deposited every month. I use Wise and the monies always shown as a foreign transfer FTT by my local Bangkok Bank, i transfer 130K bht every month give or take the exchange rate, we live well on 100k and i save the other 30K for rainy days.

Now if it did go wrong which it did once when Bangkok Bank omitted to give me the full statement just as you say my IO just said give us 15K and the problem has gone away lol, i did'nt need to do that i just went back to BB and got the two pages of the statement they omitted to give me, they apologised profusely lol

 

[Pumpuynarak]

11 minutes ago, Aqualung said:

My question is and I've been wary of asking it for fear of being a complete knob is..... As a married man to a Thai.. 400k and then what monthly income? 

We all here of the combinations of such stuff.. 65,000 baht per month or 800,000 baht in a Thai bank cough cough... What are the connotations if you have 400k and less income as a married couple? 

Pump... Bugger off and watch the saints for a bit....... I can't cope with this stuff lol!!! 

Its either 400K or 40K monthly income or a combination of both but some IO's won't do the combination method for some inexplicable reason TIT lol

[Lemondropkid]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:14 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

I pose this question guys cos i'm seeing UK bank deposit interest rates up to as much as 7% when the interest here in Thailand is no more than 2% so i believe. It does'nt make any financial sense to me other than if you don't have 65K monthly income.

 

Now i appreciate if you don't have the 800K or the 65K monthly income you're f***** and have to use an agent or a helpful IO

 

Any thoughts/comments guys ? 

I don't have the 65k monthly income.

I've opted out of my company pension and have done a far better job of managing my own cash.

I could afford to do a bank transfer for that amount into a Thai bank each month, but does that count as income? I've got no private or government pension, so can't as such give what I would consider as proof of income.

I am going to retire to Thailand starting next week!! 

What would you do if like me you couldn't prove you had the income.

Put 800k in a bank or use an agent?

PS- apologies if I've misunderstood the income requirements. Asking a genuine question 

[forcebwithu]

1 hour ago, Lemondropkid said:

I don't have the 65k monthly income.

I've opted out of my company pension and have done a far better job of managing my own cash.

I could afford to do a bank transfer for that amount into a Thai bank each month, but does that count as income? I've got no private or government pension, so can't as such give what I would consider as proof of income.

I am going to retire to Thailand starting next week!! 

What would you do if like me you couldn't prove you had the income.

Put 800k in a bank or use an agent?

PS- apologies if I've misunderstood the income requirements. Asking a genuine question 

The source of the money doesn't matter. So moving money over monthly won't be an issue.

[Lemondropkid]

1 hour ago, forcebwithu said:

The source of the money doesn't matter. So moving money over monthly won't be an issue.

Cheers for that, I apologise if I was being daft!

That's going to be easy to comply with.

[Pumpuynarak]

15 hours ago, Lemondropkid said:

I don't have the 65k monthly income.

I've opted out of my company pension and have done a far better job of managing my own cash.

I could afford to do a bank transfer for that amount into a Thai bank each month, but does that count as income? I've got no private or government pension, so can't as such give what I would consider as proof of income.

I am going to retire to Thailand starting next week!! 

What would you do if like me you couldn't prove you had the income.

Put 800k in a bank or use an agent?

PS- apologies if I've misunderstood the income requirements. Asking a genuine question 

 

14 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

The source of the money doesn't matter. So moving money over monthly won't be an issue.

 

12 hours ago, Lemondropkid said:

Cheers for that, I apologise if I was being daft!

That's going to be easy to comply with.

Hang on a minute guys, my IO requires proof of where the income is coming from, i supply them with one of my monthly pension payslips, no problem. Now we all know that IO's all have their own rules not just the national rules and regs so in Lemondropkids case he needs to check with his IO what their requirements are but as we also all know agents/brown envelopes will always achieve what you require lol

[forcebwithu]

19 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Hang on a minute guys, my IO requires proof of where the income is coming from, i supply them with one of my monthly pension payslips, no problem. Now we all know that IO's all have their own rules not just the national rules and regs so in Lemondropkids case he needs to check with his IO what their requirements are but as we also all know agents/brown envelopes will always achieve what you require lol

Is your extension to stay based on marriage? If yes, then from what I've read they make you jump through a lot more hoops than those that use retirement.

Another thing to watch out for when going the monthy deposit route is to make sure the receiving bank codes it as funds received from out of country.

[Pumpuynarak]

5 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

Is your extension to stay based on marriage? If yes, then from what I've read they make you jump through a lot more hoops than those that use retirement.

Another thing to watch out for when going the monthy deposit route is to make sure the receiving bank codes it as funds received from out of country.

I'm doing the retirement extension route as i always have done and the reason is just as you state the marriage route does require many more ''hurdles to jump''

I've never had any issues with Bangkok Bank coding my Wise transfers as FTT (foreign transfer transaction) but no doubt that issue could always ''raise its ugly head'' TIT lol

[Stillearly]

16 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

Is your extension to stay based on marriage? If yes, then from what I've read they make you jump through a lot more hoops than those that use retirement.

Another thing to watch out for when going the monthy deposit route is to make sure the receiving bank codes it as funds received from out of country.

That's interesting, I've just looked at the transfers I have done via Wise to my account at Bangkok Bank , one says "international funds transfer" all the rest say   "Transfer from a/c at other bank" 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Stillearly

[Pumpuynarak]

10 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

That's interesting, I've just looked at the transfers I have done via Wise to my account at Bangkok Bank , one says "international funds transfer" all the rest say   "Transfer from a/c at other bank" 

 

 

 

 

Did you tick ''Funds for long term stay in Thailand'' and have you got your account ''tagged'' to instruct Wise to always route as foreign transfer transaction (FTT) ?

Your BB account book should show FTT and your online account will show ''international funds transfer''

[Stillearly]

1 minute ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Did you tick ''Funds for long term stay in Thailand'' and have you got your account ''tagged'' to instruct Wise to always route as foreign transfer transaction (FTT) ?

Your BB account book should show FTT and your online account will show ''international funds transfer''

I only use the funds as travel expenses and think that's the box I usually tick ... but good info to know 👍

[Lemondropkid]

7 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

 

Hang on a minute guys, my IO requires proof of where the income is coming from, i supply them with one of my monthly pension payslips, no problem. Now we all know that IO's all have their own rules not just the national rules and regs so in Lemondropkids case he needs to check with his IO what their requirements are but as we also all know agents/brown envelopes will always achieve what you require lol

Thanks for the info.

In my case you seem to have answered your original question😉

Am in agreement with @Stillearly I'll take hit on the loss of interest, let's call it £500 to be fully compliant. 

I find it a wierd risk to take to looking to save £500 p.a as the upside, and on the downside placing yourself in a vulnerable position, where you can be tapped for "fines" or booted out of the country. But we all have our own circumstances

 I'm seperating out what I need to live as one concern. So there's a large monthly transfer each month, and some savings for a rainy day.

Then as a seperate concern, what I need to be compliant. That's most likely going to be a ring-fenced 20k on fixed term deposit.

So I will have most likely, do a transfer of around £2k pcm, the £20k for a fixed term account, + accumulate a building balance in a flexible account paying a little interest. 

So put me down as the "crazy" 80k THB man😛

Good topic, and thanks from me you've helped clarify a very key point(proof of income), and solidified my thinking.