Cheap finance and the move to EV

[maipenrai]

1 hour ago, KhunDon said:

No they don’t. They sell loads of EV’s in Canada, which are used through their very cold winters. 

And many people who have bought them have said they will not repeat the experience - lots of trouble with range, getting charged, abysmal service from the dealers who sold them, etc. - and this is from southern Canada, never mind the north where I live where you'll have over 100 miles between settlements and much colder weather - no EV in my immediate future. 

https://www.facebook.com/sten.linde.5/posts/pfbid0RYndzLpGKFQW5z8KxW8bLU2HWYrygTQzUva9Xj6CbrZtT9LrSbNHfUVKPfCWEjEtl

Edited April 20 by maipenrai
Addition

[KhunDon]

2 hours ago, Mrmango said:

Really? Pray tell me exactly how many charging stations there are at he South Pole?

A pure publicity stunt.

Obviously they’d arranged for getting a charge from a portable electric source, such as a generator or battery bank. 

How do all the snowmobiles and big tracked vehicles get their “fuel” at the North and South Poles, at a fuel pump of course.🤪

But this isn’t about charging is it, it’s about EV’s working in the freezing temperatures and it seems it worked for them, both at the North and South Poles. 
As for the “press in Minnesota”, how many intrepid reporters actually went to check that the stranded EV’s were actually broken down due to a cold battery, I’d lay good money that none of them got off their assholes to check, just made up the stories in their nice warm offices. 
 

Of course it was a publicity stunt! why else would Nissan front it, but then, so was Clarkson and Mays trip by ICE pickup to the North Pole, I think that could have been in a Nissan truck as well, or maybe a Toyota. 
I seem to remember they had a special fuel heating system built into their fuel tanks to stop the fuel freezing and “BRICKING” the ICE vehicle. 🤣

[KhunDon]

2 hours ago, maipenrai said:

And many people who have bought them have said they will not repeat the experience - lots of trouble with range, getting charged, abysmal service from the dealers who sold them, etc. - and this is from southern Canada, never mind the north where I live where you'll have over 100 miles between settlements and much colder weather - no EV in my immediate future. 

https://www.facebook.com/sten.linde.5/posts/pfbid0RYndzLpGKFQW5z8KxW8bLU2HWYrygTQzUva9Xj6CbrZtT9LrSbNHfUVKPfCWEjEtl

That FB Page won’t load. 😟

Trouble getting charged?
Why would anyone buy an EV that they can’t charge at home, or at least at a nearby DC charger, seems extremely stupid to me, especially as the distance between public chargers must be high, compared to the UK where distances between chargers are very low.
How stupid to rely on a charger 100 miles away, especially if when they get there, it’s broken. 

Obviously range will be lower in winter, if they didn’t understand that when they purchased the vehicle, that’s their fault. Didn’t they try googling anything about EV’s to do their due diligence? A few clicks on a pc would have told them about range in winter conditions. 

Bad dealerships are all over the place, we have them here in the UK for both EV’s and ICE vehicles, but that’s got nothing to do with how EV batteries work in cold temperatures. 

😉

[Mrmango]

1 hour ago, KhunDon said:

But this isn’t about charging is it, it’s about EV’s working in the freezing temperatures and it seems it worked for them, both at the North and South Poles. 

No its not.

Let me clarify my position. The problem with battery EV is when they get very cold they simply stop working, as evidenced in the big problems in the US this winter.

its that they wont work from  a cold start, not if they work when warm in extreme cold weather

And both the Artic and Antarctic can be quite pleasant and mild sometimes in their summer.

[ChiFlyer]

Interesting thread.

I have not had time to look through it in detail, but will do so over the coming week.

I recently watched "An Optimist's Guide to the Planet" 2024 IMDB 8.7. This is an eco-travel documentary hosted by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jamie Lannister from GOT). The 6 episode documentary covers Climate Change actions that are being undertaken in a large number of countries by private citizens and startups. There is quite a lot in the TV series about EVs (including planes) and building better batteries.

I noticed earlier in the thread that there was some criticism of battery material procurement of materials being unfair to African countries. There is an episode in the TV series that I have mentioned that debunks this. There are new Climate Change conscious companies in Kenya that are working on better batteries and providing much needed employment. These companies, although Euro funded, tend to be operated by Africans.

I live in Thailand. We are getting nearer to the point where we need to replace our car. This is in the 2025 budget to say the least. I am starting to think seriously about going EV. We are not high mileage drivers and I think I could easily setup a charging station at my house.

My other pipe dream is to convert or supplement the electric supply for our house to solar.

 

Edited April 20 by ChiFlyer

[ChiFlyer]

Link for best selling EVs in Thailland.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/09/byd-is-bestselling-ev-brand-in-thailand-in-2023-neta-is-runner-up/

A link for info about EV cars in Thailand.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/home-car/buy-ev-car.html

[KhunDon]

2 hours ago, Mrmango said:

No its not.

Let me clarify my position. The problem with battery EV is when they get very cold they simply stop working, as evidenced in the big problems in the US this winter.

its that they wont work from  a cold start, not if they work when warm in extreme cold weather

And both the Artic and Antarctic can be quite pleasant and mild sometimes in their summer.

You do know that you can precondition the batteries and car when charging at home don’t you. 
Leave it plugged into the EVSE in a warmed garage and you’ll be fine. No different than an ICE vehicle during extreme weather.

If your battery is flat, just like an ICE with an empty tank, neither will start. 
Cold batteries with a decent charge will work fine. 
 

“Quite mild and pleasant sometimes”. 🥶

It can also be extremely cold, pretty much all the time. 🤣
 

[KhunDon]

2 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Interesting thread.

I have not had time to look through it in detail, but will do so over the coming week.

I recently watched "An Optimist's Guide to the Planet" 2024 IMDB 8.7. This is an eco-travel documentary hosted by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jamie Lannister from GOT). The 6 episode documentary covers Climate Change actions that are being undertaken in a large number of countries by private citizens and startups. There is quite a lot in the TV series about EVs (including planes) and building better batteries.

I noticed earlier in the thread that there was some criticism of battery material procurement of materials being unfair to African countries. There is an episode in the TV series that I have mentioned that debunks this. There are new Climate Change conscious companies in Kenya that are working on better batteries and providing much needed employment. These companies, although Euro funded, tend to be operated by Africans.

I live in Thailand. We are getting nearer to the point where we need to replace our car. This is in the 2025 budget to say the least. I am starting to think seriously about going EV. We are not high mileage drivers and I think I could easily setup a charging station at my house.

My other pipe dream is to convert or supplement the electric supply for our house to solar.

 

It would easily be possible to charge your car with a decent size PV array or from batteries charged from Solar. 
I charge ours in the cheap, four hour period overnight from the grid, on an 7 kWh home EVSE and get more than enough charge to do the daily usage, which is around 60+ miles. 

I’d like to install a big PV array and batteries with a large inverter, but not sure we get enough sunlight during the winter months to make it viable, with not enough storage in house batteries to power house and charge the EV. Summer time is different, but the payback would be 20 plus years for the system I’d like. Of course in Thailand the sun shines a lot more, so things would be different for you. 
Maybe as new PV designs come on stream, things could change enough for me to invest in a solar system. At the moment here in the UK, it’s all about Air Source Heat Pumps replacing Combi Gas Boilers that heat the house and provide hot water, but luckily we’ve just refurbished the whole house and that included installing extra insulation in walls and roof to save heat from escaping. 

[Zeb]

4 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

I am starting to think seriously about going EV. We are not high mileage drivers and I think I could easily setup a charging station at my house.

I went with a MG4 and am very happy with it but the BYD Dolphin is very good as well and I seriously considered it.

BYD are going to produce some of their vehicles in Thailand soon and the Dolphin will be one of the models made in Thailand. BYD have big improvement's coming soon for their batteries building on already very good batteries (& cars).

BYD started out as a battery manufacturer (30% of the batteries in mobile phones world-wide are made by BYD). They started making cars including EV's earlier this century and are one of the biggest car manufacturers world-wide.

The main difference between the two (IMO) is that the MG is rear wheel drive has good overall kit and is a drivers care with good finishing. Its been reviewed consistently very well by various motoring journalists and much can be found on YouTube,

The Dolphin is front wheel drive all models come with all the bells and whistles and a range of different size engines and batteries making it a very good runabout for a range of circumstances. The new model should out later in the year.

Again plenty of YouTube reviews available.

Off the shelf charging kit are readily available and it may well be worth your while to explorer linking it to solar and a home battery.

But a plug in home charger is the most straightforward way to go.

Edited April 20 by Zeb

[Mrmango]

5 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Link for best selling EVs in Thailland.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/09/byd-is-bestselling-ev-brand-in-thailand-in-2023-neta-is-runner-up/

A link for info about EV cars in Thailand.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/home-car/buy-ev-car.html

https://futurefluxtech.com/the-new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter/#:~:text=Is It True That the,weather affects the battery performance.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/

 

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold:... 15

Many Chicago-area Tesla owners were visibly frustrated on Monday after their electric vehicles failed to charge amid freezing temperatures.

[fygjam]

You gotta wonder why these companies supply engine heaters for hydrocarbon fueled vehicles. Don't they know they're unnecessary?

 

[maipenrai]

10 hours ago, KhunDon said:

That FB Page won’t load. 😟

Trouble getting charged?
Why would anyone buy an EV that they can’t charge at home, or at least at a nearby DC charger, seems extremely stupid to me, especially as the distance between public chargers must be high, compared to the UK where distances between chargers are very low.
How stupid to rely on a charger 100 miles away, especially if when they get there, it’s broken. 

Obviously range will be lower in winter, if they didn’t understand that when they purchased the vehicle, that’s their fault. Didn’t they try googling anything about EV’s to do their due diligence? A few clicks on a pc would have told them about range in winter conditions. 

Bad dealerships are all over the place, we have them here in the UK for both EV’s and ICE vehicles, but that’s got nothing to do with how EV batteries work in cold temperatures. 

😉

I'll do a  copy and paste for you:

This letter to the editor was printed in the Inverness Oran in Feb 2024. It was written by an owner of a Tesla EV in Nova Scotia and this can be found online. Her view follows:

Columns and Letters

Letter: First-hand EV owner's experience

Last Updated: Tuesday, 27 February 2024 14:53

February 28, 2024

Dear Editor,

I am writing in response to a letter in the February 14th publication entitled, “Benefits of Electric Vehicles.” My husband and I drive a 2021 Long Range Tesla Model 3. My hope is to shed some light on what it is like living in Inverness County with an electric vehicle.

For a bit of context, I am not your run-of-the-mill naysayer. We’ve been driving an EV for the last three years, we are organic farmers, we lived in a fully off-grid, solar powered home for eight years, and we attended that big Greta Thunberg inspired climate change march in Halifax back in 2019. I feel slightly embarrassed about sharing this so publicly because I truly feel that we got duped by clever and persuasive EV/doomsday marketing. After reading Paul Strome’s letter, featuring all those key marketing points, I felt compelled to write in. Here is our electric car experience:

2021 – Rosy new car: Wow! This is great!

– The car was more expensive up front, but it only costs about $14 to “fill the tank” and we can conveniently charge with our Level 2 charger at home whenever we want. That will more than make up for the initial cost over time, considering the price of gas!

– No pesky oil changes and Tesla’s titanium shield under the car means no repairs due to rust! Great – more savings!

– When going to Halifax, we need to recharge at the Enfield Supercharger. Recharging takes 18 minutes, but no big deal: bathroom break, stretch your legs, get a coffee; just minor adjustments to how we drove with a gas car.

Not-so-nice realizations from year one:

– The undulating, electric hum while the car charges for seven hours permeates our entire home and yard. Is that healthy?

– Needing to exit the vehicle for 20 minutes at the Supercharger because it feels very unhealthy to be in such a high voltage environment while it’s charging. Rain, shine, snow or sleet – Everybody out!

– Learning that every time you recharge the battery, the battery life decreases. It actually can damage the battery to charge to 100 per cent and it is advised that you don’t charge more than 80 per cent for day-to-day use.

2022 – One-year-old car:

– Can still make it to Sydney and back, but we shouldn’t make many detours if we want to make it home again. Having to stop in Baddeck for two hours to “juice up” just to make the 40-minute journey home doesn’t make much sense...

– Can still make it to the Enfield Supercharger when going to Halifax, but no detours. Stick to the highway or else.

Christmas 2023 – 2.5-year-old car:

Heading to the Valley Christmas Eve (outside temperature is -5oC).

– “I don’t think we’re going to make it to the Supercharger...” “What the heck! We’re definitely not going to make it!” The whole family, plus two dogs, wandered around Truro for 1.5 hours, in the cold twilight while charging just enough to make it to the Enfield Supercharger.

– With everyone’s spirits low, we wander around the Enfield Big Stop parking lot in the cold while the car charges for 35 minutes. Can’t bring the dogs into Timmy’s and staying in the car while it’s charging feels like every hair on your body is getting charged up too.

– Charge up again at the New Minas Supercharger, just in case, because the wall plug at Grandma’s takes days to charge the car and we can’t believe how poorly the car is performing.

Coming home after Christmas:

– Leave Middleton. Stop at the Supercharger in New Minas for 10 minutes to add some charge. Everyone out into the cold!

– Leave New Minas. Stop in Enfield to fully recharge for 35 minutes. Everybody out into the cold: Kids, dogs; everyone. It’s windy and half raining/half snowing. How wonderfully modern and convenient it is to drive an EV!

– Make it back home with six per cent. Phew!

January 2024 – 2.5-year-old car:

– 10oC, but dropping, so range is dropping too.

– Husband arrives at Enfield Supercharger. Relief!

– Enfield supercharger is down. Neither the car nor Telsa phone app notified him; 9:00 p.m. on a Sunday. No indication of when/if the charger will turn on again. Car is at three per cent. Not enough power to keep the heat on, let alone drive to a motel. Other EV drivers there are all cursing their cars and their decisions...

– After an hour of being stranded, the chargers come online again.

– 60 minutes to recharge after going so low and it being so cold out. Two hours, stuck at the Enfield Big Stop!

February 2024 (last week) – 2.5-year-old car

– We are driving home from the airport. I’m driving my 2012 Toyota Matrix (680 km/tank). I have to go pick up the dogs from the boarder, just outside Antigonish. It’s too big of a detour for the “Long Range” Tesla to handle.

– Even with that detour, I make it home first. The Tesla took 60 minutes to charge in Enfield. It takes longer to charge a cold battery, but surely they should be home by now...

– My husband finally made it home. He crawled home, with the heat turned off, because he was trying to conserve power. Made it home with six per cent.

We’ve looked into it: There is nothing wrong with our car. This is just the natural diminishing of an EV battery over time, combined with fairly mild NS winter driving.

This is what range anxiety looks like! It is not, as Paul Strome so kindly put it, “for those drivers who have trouble paying attention to their fuel gauge.” Range anxiety means constantly paying attention to your fuel gauge and crossing your fingers and toes, hoping you’re going to make it! It’s leaving home with a “full tank” to go 290 km and worrying about not arriving!

The February 14th letter features all of the dealership, government, and activist talking points. None of it is based on the real life experience of a rural EV owner. The “official range” of EVs is not based in reality. Only on the first day out of the factory (if it’s sunny, with no wind, temps between 15-20oC, on a straight stretch road with no hills) would our car ever live up to its range expectations.

Speaking as a former climate change activist and current EV driver, I can only see EVs working if you live in a big city and never plan on leaving that big city. The last thing we should be pushing for is to phase out internal combustion engine vehicles by 2035 in Canada. Yes, we absolutely have to take better care of our planet, but EVs make zero sense in the real world.

Hilary Mueller

Mabou

[maipenrai]

2 hours ago, fygjam said:

You gotta wonder why these companies supply engine heaters for hydrocarbon fueled vehicles. Don't they know they're unnecessary?

 

Maybe they are unnecessary in Australia but they are certainly necessary in my part of the world, unless you want your heavy truck to sit and run at fast idle all night while you are sleeping - this is what they did in my youth, it was common too see up to 15-20 trucks at some stops roaring away by themselves when it got cold because they simply couldn't afford to have them not start in the morning. 

[lazarus]

my EV choice... Rivian SUV

[Zeb]

BYD to release second-gen LMFP blade battery in August

Chinese battery manufacturer and automaker BYD will release its second-generation blade battery based on lithium manganese iron phosphate (LMFP) technology in August, Kallanish learns from the company. 

The major upgrade in the upcoming product is on the cell-to-pack energy density, which is expected to reach 190 watt-hours/kilogram. 

In a statement, BYD’s chairman Chuanfu Wang disclosed the second-gen blade battery offers the same driving range.

However, it has a smaller volume, lighter weight and the electricity consumption per hundred kilometres is also lower.

“This second-gen blade battery can help battery electric models to boost their China Light-Duty Vehicle Test Cycle (CLTC) mileage range to exceed 1,000 km,” he adds.

The cell’s energy density is about 220 Wh/kg. Compared with lithium iron phosphate, the voltage of LMFP can be increased by 15-20%. However, a current problem is obtaining the appropriate electrolyte and electrode coating to prevent extreme corrosion during charge and discharge cycles.

This year, Chinese leading battery companies Gotion High-tech and CATL are also launching LMFP batteries. The expected energy density of their respective battery packs are 190 Wh/kg and 210-230 Wh/kg.

BYD’s upcoming new product is also slated to compete with Nio’s semi-solid-state batteries, which are under production and said to have an energy density of 360 Wh/kg.  

The blade battery name relates to its structure, as individual cells are arranged in a blade shape within the battery pack. 

https://www.kallanish.com/en/news/power-materials/market-reports/article-details/byd-to-release-second-gen-lmfp-blade-battery-in-august-0424/

[KhunDon]

“The undulating, electric hum while the car charges for seven hours permeates our entire home and yard. Is that healthy?

– Needing to exit the vehicle for 20 minutes at the Supercharger because it feels very unhealthy to be in such a high voltage environment while it’s charging. Rain, shine, snow or sleet – Everybody out!”

 

Never ever heard of anyone hearing an “undulating hum” whilst charging their car on a home EVSE and it’s certainly not unsafe to sit in a car whilst charging at a supercharger or any DC charger. Certainly no need to stand outside in the freezing cold whilst charging, that’s just paranoia. 
I charge my car every night and it doesn’t make a sound. 
 

Maybe they need to get their Tesla checked out, as some of the times for charging look very suspect to me. Tesla of all EV’s are usually the fastest to charge, especially on superchargers and get the humming whilst charging issues sorted at the same time. 

As for the degradation, there’s so much FUD rubbish on the internet about this, I don’t bother reading it anymore.

 

 EV’s especially Tesla’s are extremely good at not degrading their batteries and many have 300k miles with minimal degradation and many other EV models, with even more miles on the clock have minimal degradation.

My vehicle (Kia Soul MY 21) was checked for degradation a week ago and it was at 98%SOH after 3 years and almost 60k miles and I ALWAYS CHARGE to 100% every night. 

 

Even at its coldest here in UK (0°-6°) winter, I only lose around 8-12% range in battery which I factor in for any journey. 

 

[ChiFlyer]

19 hours ago, Zeb said:

I went with a MG4 and am very happy with it but the BYD Dolphin is very good as well and I seriously considered it.

BYD are going to produce some of their vehicles in Thailand soon and the Dolphin will be one of the models made in Thailand. BYD have big improvement's coming soon for their batteries building on already very good batteries (& cars).

BYD started out as a battery manufacturer (30% of the batteries in mobile phones world-wide are made by BYD). They started making cars including EV's earlier this century and are one of the biggest car manufacturers world-wide.

The main difference between the two (IMO) is that the MG is rear wheel drive has good overall kit and is a drivers care with good finishing. Its been reviewed consistently very well by various motoring journalists and much can be found on YouTube,

The Dolphin is front wheel drive all models come with all the bells and whistles and a range of different size engines and batteries making it a very good runabout for a range of circumstances. The new model should out later in the year.

Again plenty of YouTube reviews available.

Off the shelf charging kit are readily available and it may well be worth your while to explorer linking it to solar and a home battery.

But a plug in home charger is the most straightforward way to go.

Thanks for taking the time to write down the great info. This is a lot of help in getting a little focus on things.

Looks like the MG is cheaper than the BYD. I am going to start looking around for where I can find showrooms in the general Pattaya area. I would like to do test drives at some point. I also need to reflect a bit on what really does matter to me. Like I said we are light weight mileage people for the most part (grocery shopping, out for dinner, ...). I doubt we drive 200 kms on an average week. The one longer trip we make once or twice a year is to visit the Mrs. family in Khon Kean. At 600 kms that is not going to work, plus Isan charging stations would likely be a challenge. Sounds like a good excuse to fly and rent a car for a week. I hate the drive in the first place. 🙂 

 

[ChiFlyer]

I found this to be a decent write-up of the BYD Dolphin.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/byd/dolphin-ev/

 

Here is one for the MG5

 

[ChiFlyer]

A Pattaya News article from November 2023 that speaks to financial benefits with regard to purchasing an EV. I am aware that as a Farang I may not qualify, but I intend to put the EV in the Mrs. name.

https://thepattayanews.com/2023/11/17/thailand-embraces-electric-vehicle-surge-plans-for-increased-production-and-incentives-unveiled/

 

 

[KhunDon]

21 hours ago, Zeb said:

I went with a MG4 and am very happy with it but the BYD Dolphin is very good as well and I seriously considered it.

BYD are going to produce some of their vehicles in Thailand soon and the Dolphin will be one of the models made in Thailand. BYD have big improvement's coming soon for their batteries building on already very good batteries (& cars).

BYD started out as a battery manufacturer (30% of the batteries in mobile phones world-wide are made by BYD). They started making cars including EV's earlier this century and are one of the biggest car manufacturers world-wide.

The main difference between the two (IMO) is that the MG is rear wheel drive has good overall kit and is a drivers care with good finishing. Its been reviewed consistently very well by various motoring journalists and much can be found on YouTube,

The Dolphin is front wheel drive all models come with all the bells and whistles and a range of different size engines and batteries making it a very good runabout for a range of circumstances. The new model should out later in the year.

Again plenty of YouTube reviews available.

Off the shelf charging kit are readily available and it may well be worth your while to explorer linking it to solar and a home battery.

But a plug in home charger is the most straightforward way to go.

I did try the MG4 Trophy and liked it, but felt it was just a bit too small for us and the material's and infotainment systems weren’t up to those of the Kia’s. But if all I wanted was a cheap to run runaround, then they would be close to the top of my list. 
The problem with BYD vehicles isn’t so much the cars themselves, but their dealership/service centre's.
There are 2 equidistant from me, each a journey of 145 miles round trip, which isn’t something I’d want to be doing for services or to repair faults etc. Also BYD as a brand, is relatively new to the UK, so I’d like to see a few years of their products here before I look harder at them.

Kia however is only a 50 mile round trip and the wife prefers their vehicles. 😉