Rompho Ray Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, Sir_Fondles said: It would be, if the embassy could verify the income presented is legitimate... they cannot though. If the income you swear to is not legitimate, you're guilty of perjury, and both the Thai government and your own government have recourse. I once saw a guy almost get thrown in jail because he went to Soi 9 and swore out a declaration that he had lost his Thai driver's license, then found it a few days later. He needed a lawyer to sort that out. Also, how hard could it be to forge proof of insurance if the government isn't going to check that either? I should imagine that such a thing would be easy enough to counterfeit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sir_Fondles said: It would be, if the embassy could verify the income presented is legitimate... they cannot though. Stop... They can easily. They just need to have you show up with your bank statement of your home country, or the statements from your government pension. They simply dont want to do it because it make them legally liable in case you come up with fake documents (available on the web), and they have certified those fakes. The affidavit "self declaration" is B.S. as they simply confirm a verbal statement that you give. In case of problem it is you who lied. And it is not really in the list of services a consulate provides. But hey, subject done over and over on all forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Fondles Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, Thai Spice said: Stop... They can easily. They just need to have you show up with your bank statement of your home country, or the statements from your government pension. They simply dont want to do it because it make them legally liable in case you come up with fake documents (available on the web), and they have certified those fakes. The affidavit "self declaration" is B.S. as they simply confirm a verbal statement that you give. In case of problem it is you who lied. And it is not really in the list of services a consulate provides. But hey, subject done over and over on all forums. Verifiable proof..... My embassy here cannot verify my bank statement, Can yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sir_Fondles said: Verifiable proof..... My embassy here cannot verify my bank statement, Can yours ? They can check if it is a genuine one or not, if they want. But by "certifying" it, they engage their responsability in case they certify a fake. So some dont take the risk. Remember this problem concerns only 3 or 4 countries (UK, US, AUS, and 1 more ) if I remember well. French or Belgian consulates continue to deliver the affidavit thing, but I dont know under what rules. If I remember I posted something from the consulate website on this in the past. In the same way, a French consulate will only certify a document or a written declaration IN FRENCH, and not any other language. It can be written in multiple languages, but one of those has to be French. Had the case when making certificates allowing my kids to travel (I wrote it in 2 languages) or nowadays for my yearly "certificate of existence". Edited October 8, 2019 by Thai Spice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rompho Ray Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: The affidavit "self declaration" is B.S. as they simply confirm a verbal statement that you give. In case of problem it is you who lied. Actually, in the case of the US, you confirm a written statement by raising your right hand and swearing an oath before a consular officer that is equivalent in validity to being sworn in as a witness in a court of law. That written statement is then notarized including the embossed emblem, giving it full status as a legal document, similar in weight to a legally-binding contract. No, it's not the embassy's problem if someone lies. It can be a rather big one for the liar though, who could face criminal charges of perjury in both the US and Thailand. That's supposed to be the deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rompho Ray said: No, it's not the embassy's problem if someone lies. It can be a rather big one for the liar though, who could face criminal charges of perjury in both the US and Thailand. That's supposed to be the deterrent. Yeah, thats gonna stop the miscreants and those who would sell father and mother to stay in Thailand because "they're soo much in lub" .... I am aware.of the original idea, but desperate people will do desperate things, you know that. Hence all the "grey agencies" doing a great business..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Fondles Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: They can check if it is a genuine one or not, if they want. Glad to hear your embassy can do the check, mine cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Bazle said: It's not the first time I've read that but I don't bother and, so far, have not had it questioned. I had probably 4 transactions on the account in one year at the time of the last extension. Like everything else immigration, I expect it depends on the office. When I was still upcountry, I was actually sent away to the bank once because my last transaction was a week older than the bank letter. I had to make a transaction and get a new letter. Now I do a transaction on the morning I go for the letter to be sure, and make sure there is a transaction every month. I don't know if the office where I live now is as strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 11 hours ago, farangme said: Thing is, any serious condition could cost you Millions of Thai Baht. I hope your bank book's healthy, very healthy. Been through this with a friend who had no insurance. Took money out of His ATM every day for His ICU after a heart attack. Cost fortunes and luckily His Family bailed Him out to cover a triple bypass. Around 2 Million Baht for that alone. Well, as the insurance companies specifically exclude heart and circulatory coverage for me, not much point paying them. I also know someone who had a quadruple bypass (~1.8MBaht) so I have a good idea of how much to keep in the emergency fund, and don't let it get nearly that low. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, tko said: Well, as the insurance companies specifically exclude heart and circulatory coverage for me, not much point paying them. I also know someone who had a quadruple bypass (~1.8MBaht) so I have a good idea of how much to keep in the emergency fund, and don't let it get nearly that low. Thats A LOT of money to keep in the bank.... Close to 55,000 euro. Not many can afford that IMO . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tko Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: Thats A LOT of money to keep in the bank.... Close to 55,000 euro. Not many can afford that IMO . That's probably true. Fortunately, considering they won't cover heart/circulatory for me, I can quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Sir_Fondles said: My work provides private health insurance but not sure how that works or what is covered.... they did not ask any questions relating to existing conditions. Thats great for you SF but what happens when you retire ? It is customary for employment related health care to not take pre-existing conditions into account, the policy is a "group policy" and covers everyone irrespective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 13 hours ago, farangme said: Thing is, any serious condition could cost you Millions of Thai Baht. I hope your bank book's healthy, very healthy. Been through this with a friend who had no insurance. Took money out of His ATM every day for His ICU after a heart attack. Cost fortunes and luckily His Family bailed Him out to cover a triple bypass. Around 2 Million Baht for that alone. But what choice has tko got ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Bazle said: I think that some of you are overlooking cover limits and exclusions when thinking about insurance. BINGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Horizondave said: I wasn't Baz, my yearly limit was 5m baht with 20m baht total insurance cover, would cover for most things although there were still better coverage deals. Wouldn't really be wanting to find even a small percentage of that amount so I was happy paying my premium. My medical condition had I still been living in Thailand (which I was not aware of) would have seen me have at least a heart attack which if I had lived would have cost a mint to sort me out. I know I would have been grateful for the insurance that I had until I left Thailand. But you won't get the insurance to cover with pre-existing conditions, think controlled type 2 diabetes, they won't cover you for ANY heart condition/illness. If you ever manage to find an insurer who will cover you please let me know, i won't be holding my breath lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said: Thats great for you SF but what happens when you retire ? It is customary for employment related health care to not take pre-existing conditions into account, the policy is a "group policy" and covers everyone irrespective. Yep, thats the point. I'll try to dig up my company policy when I was expat. If you work for a decent company it.is quite good. When I showed it to a French insurance broker his answer was "dont show this to your wife, you're worth way more death than alive" ... But when you retire, its all back to basics... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: But when you retire, its all back to basics... BINGO but most good insurers will allow you to continue the same cover providing you pay the required premium, then you are subject to their premium increases for each and every year the policy is in force and god forbid if you make a substantial claim, the premium increases will go through the roof and some will not allow renewal. Edited October 8, 2019 by Pumpuynarak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: But when you retire, its all back to basics... And thats when your income is lowest as well ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpuynarak Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Thai Spice said: And thats when your income is lowest as well ! BINGO again, its one hell of a minefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWA Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Sir_Fondles said: It would be, if the embassy could verify the income presented is legitimate... they cannot though. 9 hours ago, Thai Spice said: Stop... They can easily. They just need to have you show up with your bank statement of your home country, or the statements from your government pension. Eh? I thought it was categorically proven when this was all debated before that there is no way Embassy staff in most countries can truly verify income and all countries would have followed the UK, USA and Aus embassies if Thai Immigration hadn't quietly gone back on their requirements. Unfortunately this reversal was too late for the ones who had withdrawn the service (except Denmark) and they were quite happy to be out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Spice Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 35 minutes ago, KWA said: Eh? I thought it was categorically proven when this was all debated before that there is no way Embassy staff in most countries can truly verify income and all countries would have followed the UK, USA and Aus embassies if Thai Immigration hadn't quietly gone back on their requirements. Unfortunately this reversal was too late for the ones who had withdrawn the service (except Denmark) and they were quite happy to be out of it. Just checked.the French consulate BKK website. They still provide it, affidavit system, no "hard" documents required, but some forms filling. And you can do it online, but need to collect the document in person. Cost around.1800 Thb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWA Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Thai Spice said: Just checked.the French consulate BKK website. They still provide it, affidavit system, no "hard" documents required, but some forms filling. And you can do it online, but need to collect the document in person. Cost around.1800 Thb Yes, every embassy apart from the three mentioned still supply it AFAIK. No need for it to be a true reflection of actual income. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Fondles Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said: Thats great for you SF but what happens when you retire ? It is customary for employment related health care to not take pre-existing conditions into account, the policy is a "group policy" and covers everyone irrespective. I wont wont grow old enough to retire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Fondles Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thai Spice said: Just checked.the French consulate BKK website. They still provide it, affidavit system, no "hard" documents required, but some forms filling. And you can do it online, but need to collect the document in person. Cost around.1800 Thb But it the document accepted by Thai authorities ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Boy Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 11:47 AM, Bazle said: It's not the first time I've read that but I don't bother and, so far, have not had it questioned. I had probably 4 transactions on the account in one year at the time of the last extension. Same, same. I've had the 800K in an SCB fixed-interest deposit account for a decade and have never touched it (with interest it's now worth around 840K!). Immigration have always been quite happy with a fixed-interest deposit account (same-day access to your money was their main concern, so no SFF accounts allowed), and the whole idea of such an account is that it's not meant for day-to-day use, so there's obviously no need to show regular transactions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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