COVID 19 GLOBAL

[dcfc2007]

10 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

So, if we had not had this "unnecessary" lockdown, do you believe that the number of infections would have just magically reduced to what they are now? 

It appears that many countries have introduced lockdowns in some form or another. Do you believe that they too have been triggered by media pressure? 

The C19 virus behaves the same wherever it goes. 

The number of infections is not the important number. 80% of those infected will be asymptommatic, they won't even know they've had it. We don't keep running totals of the flu, the common cold or other infectious diseases alongside daily press conferences on the spread of infection. The important number is the IFR and the number of deaths. The IFR was given between 5-7% by the Chinese and the now widely discredited WHO, that is what caused the initial media driven mass hysteria. Now with every passing day we have more and more data that estimates the IFR number is between 0.1-0.5% in many countries.

The death rate is grossly inflated, it's been inflated in England, Ireland and large parts of the U.S, with the passing of time we will find out that it was grossly over inflated in countries right across the world. The lockdown imposed in the UK was like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, completely and utterly unnecessary, and will do the country more damage in the future than this virus could ever have done. That's all completely irrelevant now, the virus is well suppressed in the UK, we have effective therapeutic treatments and a promising vaccine. The lockdown is gone, kapeesh, it ain't coming back. Thank god for that!

[Thai Spice]

Only the numbers counting excess deaths vs previous years are valid.

All other number are bullshit. As easy as that. 

Every country has a department publicising those numbers.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3july2020#deaths-registered-by-week

 

[grayray]

see here in Australia that we have 122 deaths from the virus this year, but have had 1200 male suicides.

in our state NSW we have 2 in hospitals and 2 ICUs out of 5 million plus.and they are talking about harsher lockdowns,because of what is happening in Victoria,they worring that more will find it's way north.

I saw at the week-end how much people are worried about getting the virus,they just want to get on with life.

world wide there is more death from cancer than the virus,but goverments are shutting all things down, goverments never shut down the place for the swine flu and it killed more people than the wahun virus in one year,

they should just worry about those that are in grave danger,like the old farts and the ones already sick, and open businesses so the people can get back to work,how are the future people going to pay for all the debts that the current goverments are getting their citizens into.

me I just want to get back to LOS to get hold of some of the beautiful TGs that are lonely in Pattaya and BKK before those to pommy studs Namps and Boydeste get to all of them.

regards

grayray

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by grayray

[Butch]

2 hours ago, dcfc2007 said:

The initial response was driven by the hysteria in the mass media, particularly that knobend Piers Morgan, and wasn't helped by the lies and cover up from China and the WHO. A public health response would have been more than appropriate to deal with the Covid outbreak, there was no need for a lockdown, certainly not one as onerous as the lockdown that was forced upon people in the UK. How many lives were saved by Police Officers searching peoples bags for 'non-essential' items?

I don't blame doctors and nurses, they do a fantastic job, but the perception that they were all rushed off their feet and being worked to death is simply not true. In fact doctors and nurses outside covid wards have never had it so easy in their careers, admissions to A&E collapsed. I have more sympathy for the underpaid and overworked staff in care homes, they were thrown into the thick of it, with less protection and less pay than those in the NHS. I'm sorry but I just don't buy the whole NHS worship, it's a failed bureaucratic healthcare system no longer fit to meet the demands of the 21st Century.

I do agree that ultimately the blame for Covid rests mostly with China, but our government bowed to media hysteria and instituted a completely unnecessary lockdown. Boris recent statement that there will be no further lockdowns I believe is an admission of this. As for PHE, why were they reporting the numbers in that manner? It's no secret these organisations are filled with remainiac liberal types, did they do it to make the Tory government look bad? I hope an inquiry will get to the bottom of it, but it stinks. Anyway, we are coming out of lockdown, the number of deaths and infections have plummeted, and the UK vaccine looks promising, so it's only good news from here. 

 

No. That's wrong, and while I have respect for you, please allow me to give some details.

Public health responses are scenario specific, aimed at localised issues, or alternatively nationalised issues such as mass sunburn, flu or infection from a transmissible disease previously identified. C-19 is different, and the lockdown prevented NHS trusts being overwhelmed by C-19 cases because the R number has been reduced by the lockdown, so without the lockdown you would have some figures to work from but you don't, because lockdown reduced the R number. If we did not have lockdown and the R number hit 10, which it may well have, then the NHS could not cope with it. Hence lockdown.

As for the doctors and Nurses, they were balls out in the infected areas, it is somewhat unfair and disingenuous to make an assumption without actually having any evidence. The Nurse and Doctors were stretched due to the number of self isolations by staff. My wife is a consultant Haematologist and was called into a nursing role due to a lack of staff, there was a 40% shortage of staff in many NHS trusts, Norfolk for one, Essex  for another due to isolation at the peak. That's not anecdotal ,that's factual and I can provide the paperwork to prove it. A nurse in an eye clinic might have had it easy for a week or so, but the trusts redeployed staff on an ad hoc basis, and purposed some to C-19 Wards on a rotational rota.

Tell me where "doctors and nurses" had it easy during the lockdown, because if they did, the staffing policy in their trust was failing to follow PHE guidelines, it did not happen, and A&E admissions "collapsed" for one reason, during lockdown, hospitals were separated into "Red and "green" zones, thus anyone with C-19 symptoms were triaged pre A&E, and sent directly to isolation units, so yes, A&E admissions did reduce due to people being encouraged not to attend for a broken finger nail as more pressing issues were needed, and those entering "Red Zones" with C-19 were NOT classified as A&E patients, so that clears that up.

Lastly it was nothing to do with the media, it was all about the information and data coming out from Italy which was the "worst case" the Govt prepares for. If they bowed to media pressure, Corbyn would have been shot ages ago for very good reason. the PHE get the raw data from the NHS, what they do with it is anyone's guess. However, there is a data trail and that data trail is available to be investigated and held accountable.

As for 80% being asymptomatic, that's a one off cruise ship study an proves nothing, and not the 5%-80% which is closer to reality and hardly a reliable figure to work from.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Butch

[Krapow]

4 hours ago, fforest said:

Here's the thing. 

Where I live there are loads of Ultra Orthodox Jewish. They also don't have TV, internet, anything like that. Quite similar in that regard. 

Covid was rife in their community, killed loads of them, Rabbis, all sorts. To the point that it actually was very concerning to me at one stage, and I grounded my daughter and wife to stay basically just literally around where we live, not into supermarkets, shops or whatever where the Orthodox frequent with the general public. 

Understand now? 

I doubt it ...

[Butch]

32 minutes ago, grayray said:

see here in Australia that we have 122 deaths from the virus this year, but have had 1200 male suicides.

in our state NSW we have 2 in hospitals and 2 ICUs out of 5 million plus.and they are talking about harsher lockdowns,because of what is happening in Victoria,they worring that more will find it's way north.

I saw at the week-end how much people are worried about getting the virus,they just want to get on with life.

world wide there is more death from cancer than the virus,but goverments are shutting all things down, goverments never shut down the place for the swine flu and it killed more people than the wahun virus in one year,

they should just worry about those that are in grave danger,like the old farts and the ones already sick, and open businesses so the people can get back to work,how are the future people going to pay for all the debts that the current goverments are getting their citizens into.

me I just want to get back to LOS to get hold of some of the beautiful TGs that are lonely in Pattaya and BKK before those to pommy studs Namps and Boydeste get to all of them.

regards

grayray

 

Grayray, easy to say more deaths from Cancer, but if no lockdown then how about a 10000% increase in deaths due to C-19 for a hypothetical figure?.

The sick , if exposed to a non controlled C-19 will die, the true R rate of C-19 is unknown, and let us, for a moment consider the fact it actually is a weaponised version of the Flu from China, designed to be fatal in many cases. What then?.

Call me a tinfoilhatter but I think there is some truth in that, otherwise why such a vociferous reaction from the Govts worldwide?. They definitely know something we don't.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Butch

[Evil Penevil]

This case has been confirmed by many sources, including the man's family.  It's NOT a hoax or wind-up.

Richard Rose III made this post on social media on April 28:

This is his obituary on July 7.  He died of complications from COVID-19.  It's believed he caught the virus at a U.S. resort where people weren't wearing masks.

Evil

Edited July 20, 2020 by Evil Penevil

[grayray]

1 minute ago, Butch said:

Grayray, easy to say more deaths from Cancer, but if no lockdown then how about a 10000% increase in deaths due to C-19 for a hypothetical figure?.

The sick , if exposed to a non controlled C-19 will die, the true R rate of C-19 is unknown, and let us, for a moment consider the fact it actually is a weaponised version of the Flu from China, designed to be fatal in many cases. What then?.

Call me a tinfoilhatter but I think there is some truth in that, otherwise why such a vociferous reaction from the Govts worldwide?. They definitely know something we don't.

I have no doubts that the virus was not a mistake but a deliberate virus by china,for what ever reasons the bastards have. think I read somewhere that with this virus now it has cut the deaths from the flu,world wide.

regards

grayray

[Nightcrawler]

48 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

The number of infections is not the important number. 80% of those infected will be asymptommatic, they won't even know they've had it. We don't keep running totals of the flu, the common cold or other infectious diseases alongside daily press conferences on the spread of infection. The important number is the IFR and the number of deaths. The IFR was given between 5-7% by the Chinese and the now widely discredited WHO, that is what caused the initial media driven mass hysteria. Now with every passing day we have more and more data that estimates the IFR number is between 0.1-0.5% in many countries.

The death rate is grossly inflated, it's been inflated in England, Ireland and large parts of the U.S, with the passing of time we will find out that it was grossly over inflated in countries right across the world. The lockdown imposed in the UK was like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, completely and utterly unnecessary, and will do the country more damage in the future than this virus could ever have done. That's all completely irrelevant now, the virus is well suppressed in the UK, we have effective therapeutic treatments and a promising vaccine. The lockdown is gone, kapeesh, it ain't coming back. Thank god for that!

I disagree for a number of reasons, but not that there may have been mistakes in death counts related to the virus.

At the time of the Virus spread from Wuhan, China, as a novel virus, the only data available was from China. How would any leaders in Europe and other infected countries really know or predict what the mortality rate might be?

At one time or another, one third of the world's population have or still are in a state of lockdown. That is no accident and if there had been more death and government's had not reacted then they would now be blamed for gross neglegence. I see it that they had both little choice and little knowledge about the virus.

What was a fact is that the virus spread very rapidly within days/weeks and people were taken ill and hospitalised with some dying.  Even our own PM spent over 2 weeks in hospital and he was not in any at risk group

.A lockdown was correct as it has been in many other countries not only to try and stop the spread but to buy time to understand the virus and ways in which to slow down the Pandemic

Whether figures are lower or higher, it makes NO difference as I said before. C19 is not just another type of Flu.

Blame the Chinese, blame the UK governments, blame the world. In retrospect it makes no difference.  People are still being hospitalised and dying. Just take Florida as an example. 

What is happening as a result is that they are in lockdown again

If there is a second wave in any part of the world where numbers of increased infection start to significantly rise, then there will be a degree of lockdown measures.  This may also happen on a regional.basis. 

At the start of this Pandemic when it came to Europe, we hadntl figured out social distance measures and there weren't even enough masks available for the NHS let alone the public.

The only reason that many lockdown measures have been eased is because of the reduction in C19 cases as a result of lockdowns, isolation and distancing with particular emphasis on banning social gatherings 

I believe mistakes were made in the early days of the Pandemic but not for any devious reasons, but lack of systems. lack of understanding.

In a way I think that most governments panicked, especially when reports were coming in from Northern Italy of large numbers of fatalities and over run hospitals

 

[dcfc2007]

43 minutes ago, Butch said:

No. That's wrong, and while I have respect for you, please allow me to give some details.

Public health responses are scenario specific, aimed at localised issues, or alternatively nationalised issues such as mass sunburn, flu or infection from a transmissible disease previously identified. C-19 is different, and the lockdown prevented NHS trusts being overwhelmed by C-19 cases because the R number has been reduced by the lockdown, so without the lockdown you would have some figures to work from but you don't, because lockdown reduced the R number. If we did not have lockdown and the R number hit 10, which it may well have, then the NHS could not cope with it. Hence lockdown.

As for the doctors and Nurses, they were balls out in the infected areas, it is somewhat unfair and disingenuous to make an assumption without actually having any evidence. The Nurse and Doctors were stretched due to the number of self isolations by staff. My wife is a consultant Haematologist and was called into a nursing role due to a lack of staff, there was a 40% shortage of staff in many NHS trusts, Suffolk for one, Essex Colchester for another due to isolation at the peak. That's not anecdotal ,that's factual and I can provide the paperwork to prove it. A nurse in an eye clinic might have had it easy for a week or so, but the trusts redeployed staff on an ad hoc basis, and purposed some to C-19 Wards on a rotational rota.

Tell me where "doctors and nurses" had it easy during the lockdown, because if they did, the staffing policy in their trust was failing to follow PHE guidelines, it did not happen, and A&E admissions "collapsed" for one reason, during lockdown, hospitals were separated into "Red and "green" zones, thus anyone with C-19 symptoms were triaged pre A&E, and sent directly to isolation units, so yes, A&E admissions did reduce due to people being encouraged not to attend for a broken finger nail as more pressing issues were needed, and those entering "Red Zones" with C-19 were NOT classified as A&E patients, so that clears that up.

Lastly it was nothing to do with the media, it was all about the information and data coming out from Italy which was the "worst case" the Govt prepares for. If they bowed to media pressure, Corbyn would have been shot ages ago for very good reason. the PHE get the raw data from the NHS, what they do with it is anyone's guess. However, there is a data trail and that data trail is available to be investigated and held accountable.

As for 80% being asymptomatic, that's a one off cruise ship study an proves nothing, and not the 5%-80% which is closer to reality and hardly a reliable figure to work from.

 

A national public health response could have coped with Covid19, just like it helps to manage particularly bad flu seasons, you say Covid19 is different, and you are right. However, with a large scale public health response they could have managed. What is the hang up with the R number of a reproduced virus which is asymptomatic in 80% of cases, and not deadly in 99% of cases. We don't concern ourselves with the R rate of every other infectious disease.

Well if you want to go on anecdotal evidence, my mates wife is a childrens A&E nurse, she told me they were the quietest they have ever been in her career. If you also want to look at the data, the thousands of redeployed nurses and doctors were sent to 'Nightingale Hospitals', the majority of which treated a handful of patients, some never treated any patients at all. They weren't needed, they were a knee-jerk reaction to the problem.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8259543/The-giant-Nightingale-hospital-treated-ONE-patient.html

The 80% of cases being asymptomatic is now the conclusion reached by the ONS, the UK govt and indeed many other health organisations. 

The health secretary said: "The big-picture answer is that yes there are some people who don't have symptoms but do have the virus."And in fact, in the ONS study we find that around 70-80% of people who test positive don't have symptoms.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-80-of-covid-19-patients-have-no-symptoms-health-secretary-says-12004987

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by dcfc2007

[Kathmandu]

29 minutes ago, Butch said:

Grayray, easy to say more deaths from Cancer, but if no lockdown then how about a 10000% increase in deaths due to C-19 for a hypothetical figure?.

Tell it to Thai Spice. He's under the impression that all these C-19 deaths would've died of something else anyway, so it's a wash. 

Logic would suggest that he's wrong, no?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Kathmandu

[dcfc2007]

14 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

I disagree for a number of reasons, but not that there may have been mistakes in death counts related to the virus.

At the time of the Virus spread from Wuhan, China, as a novel virus, the only data available was from China. How would any leaders in Europe and other infected countries really know or predict what the mortality rate might be?

At one time or another, one third of the world's population have or still are in a state of lockdown. That is no accident and if there had been more death and government's had not reacted then they would now be blamed for gross neglegence. I see it that they had both little choice and little knowledge about the virus.

What was a fact is that the virus spread very rapidly within days/weeks and people were taken ill and hospitalised with some dying.  Even our own PM spent over 2 weeks in hospital and he was not in any at risk group

.A lockdown was correct as it has been in many other countries not only to try and stop the spread but to buy time to understand the virus and ways in which to slow down the Pandemic

Whether figures are lower or higher, it makes NO difference as I said before. C19 is not just another type of Flu.

Blame the Chinese, blame the UK governments, blame the world. In retrospect it makes no difference.  People are still being hospitalised and dying. Just take Florida as an example. 

What is happening as a result is that they are in lockdown again

If there is a second wave in any part of the world where numbers of increased infection start to significantly rise, then there will be a degree of lockdown measures.  This may also happen on a regional.basis. 

At the start of this Pandemic when it came to Europe, we hadntl figured out social distance measures and there weren't even enough masks available for the NHS let alone the public.

The only reason that many lockdown measures have been eased is because of the reduction in C19 cases as a result of lockdowns, isolation and distancing with particular emphasis on banning social gatherings 

I believe mistakes were made in the early days of the Pandemic but not for any devious reasons, but lack of systems. lack of understanding.

In a way I think that most governments panicked, especially when reports were coming in from Northern Italy of large numbers of fatalities and over run hospitals

 

It's not that there 'may have been' mistakes, there was absolutely mistakes in the counting and reporting of deaths. Not only were there mistakes, but as we can see with PHE, there were completely deceitful with the public, and they will be brought to book for it.

You say that Covid19 is not just another type of flu, you are aware that it come Covid is a coronavirus infection, the same family of infections that produce the flu, the common cold etc. It is exactly another type of flu, perhaps slightly more fatal than the flu, particularly in the elderly, but perhaps not. What is absolutely certain, is that it is NOT anywhere near as fatal as you, or others believe it to be.

I will bet you 100 GBP that there will not be another UK national lockdown, they have realised their mistakes, they have the data to show that it isn't as deadly as first reported (or mis-reported) and they know that another lockdown is not needed, not that the first one was needed either. 

 

[dcfc2007]

Just now, Kathmandu said:

Tell it to Thai Spice. He's under the impression that all these C-19 deaths would've died of something else anyway, so it's a wash. 

Logic would suggest that he's wrong, no?

Not all, but most would have.

 

The most common main pre-existing condition in England and Wales was Dementia and Alzheimer disease, with 11,950 deaths in March to May 2020 (25.6% of all deaths involving COVID-19). The proportion of COVID-19 deaths with a main pre-existing condition of Dementia and Alzheimer disease has increased from 20.1% during March and April. This reflects the large proportion of those who have died from COVID-19 being in the older age groups where Dementia and Alzheimer disease is most prevalent.

Ischaemic heart disease remains the second most common main pre-existing condition across all ages and sexes in England and Wales, with 4,614 deaths (9.9% of all deaths involving COVID-19).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinmay2020#pre-existing-conditions-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19

[Kathmandu]

2 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

It is exactly another type of flu...

It's novel, so no it's not.

It's novel, so we do not know many things.

But no, it's not the flu. Look at the numbers ffs.

[Nightcrawler]

20 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

It's not that there 'may have been' mistakes, there was absolutely mistakes in the counting and reporting of deaths. Not only were there mistakes, but as we can see with PHE, there were completely deceitful with the public, and they will be brought to book for it.

You say that Covid19 is not just another type of flu, you are aware that it come Covid is a coronavirus infection, the same family of infections that produce the flu, the common cold etc. It is exactly another type of flu, perhaps slightly more fatal than the flu, particularly in the elderly, but perhaps not. What is absolutely certain, is that it is NOT anywhere near as fatal as you, or others believe it to be.

I will bet you 100 GBP that there will not be another UK national lockdown, they have realised their mistakes, they have the data to show that it isn't as deadly as first reported (or mis-reported) and they know that another lockdown is not needed, not that the first one was needed either. 

 

You are not a scientist or medical expert and nor am I.

Why would I want to bet on something like that?

I hope and pray that there is not a second wave but it is possible, especially if people relax the current safety precautions too quickly. Truth is, we simply don't know. Not even the Govtbor Scientists.

No offence intended but I am not sure that you are any more qualified than the above to make predictions.

To be perfectly frank, if anyone should be angry and resentful about the whole situation it is people like me. I am in recovery from Cancer and over 60. I have spent weeks in self isolation up until a few weeks ago. But I am not angry with the government and I am not angry with the MSM. I am angry with people who chose to ignore the situation and who do not bother to adhere to the advice of social distancing and face protection in crowded areas.

I am glad that I self isolated. I am alive and missed a few months of my life.  So what.  

It is a natural human instinct to be cautious over uncertain dangers.  If I am walking down the street and I see a group of people fighting and shouting, then either I cross the road or turn around and walk the other way because my gut tells me that I maybe putting myself in danger .

The same applies to the Covid virus

[Butch]

48 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

A national public health response could have coped with Covid19, just like it helps to manage particularly bad flu seasons, you say Covid19 is different, and you are right. However, with a large scale public health response they could have managed. What is the hang up with the R number of reproduced virus is asymptomatic in 80% of cases, and not deadly in 99% of cases. We don't concern ourselves with the R rate of every other infectious disease. Actually the 80% of cases being asymptomatic is the conclusion reached by the ONS and the government...

“And in fact, in the ONS study we find that around 70-80 per cent of people who test positive don’t have symptoms. That is quite a significant finding."  

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-positive-cases-80-no-symptoms-asymptomatic-a4466831.html

Well if you want to go on anecdotal evidence, my mates wife is a childrens A&E nurse, she told me they were the quietest they have ever been in her career. If you also want to look at the data, the thousands of redeployed nurses and doctors were sent to 'Nightingale Hospitals', the majority of which treated a handful of patients, some never treated any patients at all. They weren't needed, they were a knee-jerk reaction to the problem.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8259543/The-giant-Nightingale-hospital-treated-ONE-patient.html

The 80% of cases being asymptomatic is now the conclusion reached by the ONS, the UK govt and indeed many other health organisations. 

The health secretary said: "The big-picture answer is that yes there are some people who don't have symptoms but do have the virus."And in fact, in the ONS study we find that around 70-80% of people who test positive don't have symptoms.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-80-of-covid-19-patients-have-no-symptoms-health-secretary-says-12004987

 

A public health response couldn't have coped, otherwise they would have used it. As I explained, quite clearly, public health responses deal with specific pre planned scenarios with an element of flexibility built in, , actually, why don't you tell me exactly how a Public health response would have acted and why it would have been successful instead, give me the parameters in which it would have worked, how it would have worked sucessfully and what precautions and measures it would have taken to ensure the success, rather than me explaining why lockdown was necessary. Much easier.

The figures they worked from were the data from Italy. it is not 80% asymptomatic, they are figures "suggested" by the ONS, not confirmed, moreover they have come to light recently, so are we talking about the lockdown when it was at the peak or now?.

Secondly, asymptomatic does not mean harmless. Important point. If you need to quote figures, make sure they have been verified and are not speculative please. It says UP to 70-80%, not definite.  Agreed it is higher than expected, but the PHe were dealing with previously relatively unknown disease and information they had at the time,  they don't concern themselves with the asymptomatic rate, they worry about the infection rate as the asymptomatic rate when dealing with control of a virus is not important, because the infection rate has a direct bearing whereas the asymptomatic rate does not. Someone asymptomatic contributes to the R rate, their status as being asymptomatic is moot, as they are still infected. Thus, asymptomatic people are still infected, they just do not show symptoms.

Asymptomatic people can still infect others, so 80%, or even 99.9999 % does not make C-19 any less infectious, it just means that more people can get it, more can be infected and it can spread more widely, it also doesn't make it any less harmful. Chlamydia is asymptomatic in many women, and it stops them having kids due to PID, so being asymptomatic does not mean that it is harmless.

Secondly, as I said, what would you rather have, no nightingale and a massive influx of patients or something that is there is you need it. It is called Risk control, think of it as a very expensive Fire extinguisher. There is no mention of the number of Nurses in that article, and given that there are over 500k registered with the Unions for the NHS, I'd ask you to provide a definitive figure as you seem to be so keen on quoting news sources. As I said, due to isolation, and redeployment nurses were busy, "Thousands" were not redeployed to nightingale Hospitals because they were effectively C-19 specific Wards within a building, thus they don't need to be staffed by thousands.

Anecdotally, a Children's Ward Nurse wouldn't probably find herself redeployed, but feel free to ask her what happened to all the Day rostered Nurses, ITU, Derma, HDU, HMU  Recovery, Theatre , Cardiac and respiratory Nurses along with the ones they redeployed from the Cancer Wards in her local hospital. It will make interesting reading.

I can speak with some authority on Essex, Kent and East Anglia NHS trusts regarding redeployment and how it was done, and the Nurses and Doctors were anything but "quiet".

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Butch

[Kathmandu]

4 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

Not all, but most would have.

 

The most common main pre-existing condition in England and Wales was Dementia and Alzheimer disease, with 11,950 deaths in March to May 2020 (25.6% of all deaths involving COVID-19). The proportion of COVID-19 deaths with a main pre-existing condition of Dementia and Alzheimer disease has increased from 20.1% during March and April. This reflects the large proportion of those who have died from COVID-19 being in the older age groups where Dementia and Alzheimer disease is most prevalent.

Ischaemic heart disease remains the second most common main pre-existing condition across all ages and sexes in England and Wales, with 4,614 deaths (9.9% of all deaths involving COVID-19).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinmay2020#pre-existing-conditions-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19

So you think people with Dementia and Alzheimer disease would have died by now, instead of 3, 5 or 10 years down the road, without the introduction of C-19?

Why not just execute them instead and reduce the surplus population right here and now?

[Butch]

19 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

Not all, but most would have.

 

The most common main pre-existing condition in England and Wales was Dementia and Alzheimer disease, with 11,950 deaths in March to May 2020 (25.6% of all deaths involving COVID-19). The proportion of COVID-19 deaths with a main pre-existing condition of Dementia and Alzheimer disease has increased from 20.1% during March and April. This reflects the large proportion of those who have died from COVID-19 being in the older age groups where Dementia and Alzheimer disease is most prevalent.

Ischaemic heart disease remains the second most common main pre-existing condition across all ages and sexes in England and Wales, with 4,614 deaths (9.9% of all deaths involving COVID-19).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinmay2020#pre-existing-conditions-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19

Consider the fact nearly all dementia patients are in care homes . Also, consider the overall mortality rate of Dementia and Alzheimer patients as a whole, plus the fact that during the peak the virus was still not fully understood, however, the Govt did fail miserably on Care homes and there is no escaping that fact, but instead of looking at the 25%, we need to focus on the 75% majority.

It is a shameful situation, and a terrible and shameful failing of the Govt which they are guilty of.

[Thai Spice]

1 hour ago, Krapow said:

Here's the thing. 

Where I live there are loads of Ultra Orthodox Jewish. They also don't have TV, internet, anything like that. Quite similar in that regard. 

Covid was rife in their community, killed loads of them, Rabbis, all sorts. To the point that it actually was very concerning to me at one stage, and I grounded my daughter and wife to stay basically just literally around where we live, not into supermarkets, shops or whatever where the Orthodox frequent with the general public. 

Understand now? 

I doubt it ...

You see mate, here is where I laugh ....

Google "professeur Raoult". 

Amazing how the masses will believe anything fed to them ....

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Thai Spice

[Nightcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

You see mate, here is where I laugh ....

Google "professeur Raoult". 

Amazing how the masses will believe anything fed to them ....

 

Well, on the other hand I suppose they could place their faith in social media or just pure gut feeling. 

"The masses" is just another term for large group of people, but implies that perhaps that you believe that most people are stupid or brainwashed or both. Obviously you exclude yourself from that as being all seeing , all knowing and wise 😄

I consider myself well educated and far from being stupid or emotionally vulnerable and if what I think, based on the information available to me, plus common sense and happens to be the similar to what what many others believe then perhaps I am one of the masses. But I don't believe everything that I read or that I am told.  I decide what I think is most logical.

If that makes me a sheep then Bahhhhh😀😀

[dcfc2007]

39 minutes ago, Kathmandu said:

It's novel, so no it's not.

It's novel, so we do not know many things.

But no, it's not the flu. Look at the numbers ffs.

Actually we know many things about it, in fact the genome of the virus has been mapped.

I have looked at the numbers, in much greater detail than you I would bet.

29 minutes ago, Kathmandu said:

So you think people with Dementia and Alzheimer disease would have died by now, instead of 3, 5 or 10 years down the road, without the introduction of C-19?

Why not just execute them instead and reduce the surplus population right here and now?

Hysterical gibberish.

[Kathmandu]

16 minutes ago, Thai Spice said:

You see mate, here is where I laugh ....

Google "professeur Raoult". 

Amazing how the masses will believe anything fed to them ....

 

Problem is, who's masses? Yours or the other guys? 

[dcfc2007]

40 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

You are not a scientist or medical expert and nor am I.

Why would I want to bet on something like that?

I hope and pray that there is not a second wave but it is possible, especially if people relax the current safety precautions too quickly. Truth is, we simply don't know. Not even the Govtbor Scientists.

No offence intended but I am not sure that you are any more qualified than the above to make predictions.

To be perfectly frank, if anyone should be angry and resentful about the whole situation it is people like me. I am in recovery from Cancer and over 60. I have spent weeks in self isolation up until a few weeks ago. But I am not angry with the government and I am not angry with the MSM. I am angry with people who chose to ignore the situation and who do not bother to adhere to the advice of social distancing and face protection in crowded areas.

I am glad that I self isolated. I am alive and missed a few months of my life.  So what.  

It is a natural human instinct to be cautious over uncertain dangers.  If I am walking down the street and I see a group of people fighting and shouting, then either I cross the road or turn around and walk the other way because my gut tells me that I maybe putting myself in danger .

The same applies to the Covid virus

I am angry with people that believe the world revolves around them, and who believe their rights usurp the rights of others. 

[Kathmandu]

1 minute ago, dcfc2007 said:

Hysterical gibberish.

Agreed. Your response is hysterical. 

[Kathmandu]

1 minute ago, dcfc2007 said:

I am angry with people that believe the world revolves around them, and who believe their rights usurp the rights of others. 

So your rights usurp theirs? Come on mate. Bring your A game next time. FFS!! Jesus!!