COVID 19 GLOBAL

[Nightcrawler]

19 minutes ago, roobob said:

It does matter how they were counted as the decisions being made were based on the number of deaths and on going cases of the virus. Yes they set up emergency hospital beds...many not used.... but they also stopped other medical treatments that people needed due to the numbers that they were making their decisions on.

Many on going medical treatments could have kept going... but they did not..... and that will have an impact on some peoples life expectancy ..... future health concerns.... and life style.... in fact it already has and will into the immediate future.

People have died with other illnesses due to Govts cancelling/postponing their treatment due to the reaction they took to CV19.... bottom line people could not get treatment from their health systems for their illness. You say that it is just a simple case of the Govt need to explain how and why that happened.... I am sure that will be appease the people who have passed away and their loved ones ... I can see them accepting the explanation from the Govt that the deaths were just collateral damage because they got their figures wrong. As you said previously about CV19 deaths..... don't these deaths matter??

cheers

I understand what you are saying, but the reason that many people have not received treatment is because of the concern that the virus may spread in hospitals and that patients may be at risk. Emergencies were still being dealt with.

Indeed things like some cancer treatment has been delayed but that is mainly because of risk of  infection. Many cancer treatments like Chemotherapy, considerably weaken the immune system. But that is to do with the spread of the virus rather than actual deaths, or numbers recorded or hospitals being full.

Nearly all of my hospital appointments have been over the phone during the last few months. That is because they are not encouraging those most vulnerable to attend, especially those in self isolation. 

Whether there were 10,20 or 25% less deaths relating to C19 it would not make any difference to admissions and hospital treatment. 

Put it this way, around 45,000 deaths have been recorded as C19 related. If there were even 25% of those were not actually C19 related, that is still 33,750 that have died as a result of the virus. That is still a very high number. 

[fygjam]

7 hours ago, fforest said:

100 'covid deaths' so-called out of 25 mill is 0.000004% of Australia's population!

Is that the result of a Covid induced neurological problem or just you were never any good at sums?

 

 

[roobob]

1 hour ago, Nightcrawler said:

I understand what you are saying, but the reason that many people have not received treatment is because of the concern that the virus may spread in hospitals and that patients may be at risk. Emergencies were still being dealt with.

Indeed things like some cancer treatment has been delayed but that is mainly because of risk of  infection. Many cancer treatments like Chemotherapy, considerably weaken the immune system. But that is to do with the spread of the virus rather than actual deaths, or numbers recorded or hospitals being full.

Nearly all of my hospital appointments have been over the phone during the last few months. That is because they are not encouraging those most vulnerable to attend, especially those in self isolation. 

Whether there were 10,20 or 25% less deaths relating to C19 it would not make any difference to admissions and hospital treatment. 

Put it this way, around 45,000 deaths have been recorded as C19 related. If there were even 25% of those were not actually C19 related, that is still 33,750 that have died as a result of the virus. That is still a very high number. 

So they delayed things like cancer treatment because the patient could be at risk of dying if they got the virus..... but on the other hand if the patient does not get the cancer treatment they are at a bigger risk of dying. Treatment should not have been stopped...or at the minimum... let the patient decide if they want to continue the treatment with the risk of catching the virus. 

Another reason authorities stopped treatment was under the pretence that countries health systems would collapse with the CV19 virus..... I know Australia's health system did not collapse....did the  NHS collapse???  I am sure I have read on here that some local medical facilities were closed by the Govt because of the virus.... even in regional centres where there were no infections. If this virus was the doomsday that authorities made it out to be... would you not think that they would not want every trained medical personal on duty..facilities open so the public had immediate access to their countries health system.

I agree that the number if deaths for CV19 is high.... but the number of deaths from other unrelated health issues due to having no access to medical treatment is climbing and will continue to climb due to the decisions made by authorities.

CV19 is a virus.... yes a bad virus and it should be treated as best we can until a vaccine is found.... but that is no reason to put all other medical issues ..... many that will cause fatalities.... on hold and withhold vital medical treatment to those people. 

cheers

Edited July 20, 2020 by roobob

[KWA]

2 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

Indeed things like some cancer treatment has been delayed but that is mainly because of risk of  infection.

Tell that to this guy's widow.  Services were stopped because of the fear of the massively overhyped numbers of potential Covid cases.  Same as the 150,000 number in Australia, the UK used numbers which have since been discredited, supplied by the so called experts and blindly accepted by the government.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53430335

 

[Esco]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

So they delayed things like cancer treatment because the patient could be at risk of dying if they got the virus..... but on the other hand if the patient does not get the cancer treatment they are at a bigger risk of dying. Treatment should not have been stopped...or at the minimum... let the patient decide if they want to continue the treatment with the risk of catching the virus. 

Another reason authorities stopped treatment was under the pretence that countries health systems would collapse with the CV19 virus..... I know Australia's health system did not collapse....did the  NHS collapse???  I am sure I have read on here that some local medical facilities were closed by the Govt because of the virus.... even in regional centres where there were no infections. If this virus was the doomsday that authorities made it out to be... would you not think that they would not want every trained medical personal on duty..facilities open so the public had immediate access to their countries health system.

I agree that the number if deaths for CV19 is high.... but the number of deaths from other unrelated health issues due to having no access to medical treatment is climbing and will continue to climb due to the decisions made by authorities.

CV19 is a virus.... yes a bad virus and it should be treated as best we can until a vaccine is found.... but that is no reason to put all other medical issues ..... many that will cause fatalities.... on hold and withhold vital medical treatment to those people. 

cheers

Everyone will remember the situation in Italy and Spain where the hospitals could not handle the amount of patients requiring care in ICU. The situation in New York was also extremely dire. 

While most other systems did not collapse, the initial fear of governments and Healthcare workers alike was not unfounded in my view.

Of course now with the virus mostly under control, in many countries for 2 months already, there's no need to put any other treatment on hold. 

[fygjam]

13 minutes ago, KWA said:

Tell that to this guy's widow.  Services were stopped because of the fear of the massively overhyped numbers of potential Covid cases.  Same as the 150,000 number in Australia, the UK used numbers which have since been discredited, supplied by the so called experts and blindly accepted by the government.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53430335

 

Australia DID NOT use 150,000 to implement it's Covid-19 decisions. The 150,000 figure was the result of simple mathematics for a given scenario out of a number of a number of scenarios.

Please stop perpetrating this LIE. You only do so to push your own agenda.

 

 

[roobob]

10 minutes ago, Esco said:

Everyone will remember the situation in Italy and Spain where the hospitals could not handle the amount of patients requiring care in ICU. The situation in New York was also extremely dire. 

While most other systems did not collapse, the initial fear of governments and Healthcare workers alike was not unfounded in my view.

Of course now with the virus mostly under control, in many countries for 2 months already, there's no need to put any other treatment on hold. 

Agree it was not unfounded.... and that some country's health systems were over reached/whelmed ..... but what I disagree with is when the numbers did not reach some Govts "magic" number... when it was apparent the situation was not as bad as they thought... they did not look at the situation and change their view/stance. There is....  what.....195 countries in the world.... how many health systems actually crashed.... no where near 195 of them.

True what you say in your last sentence.... and fully agree.

cheers 

[KWA]

1 minute ago, fygjam said:

Australia DID NOT use 150,000 to implement it's Covid-19 decisions. The 150,000 figure was the result of simple mathematics for a given scenario out of a number of a number of scenarios.

Please stop perpetrating this LIE. You only do so to push your own agenda.

You quoted it above so it's existence isn't in doubt.  Whether it was used to provide numbers for beds and nurses or just to scare the public is immaterial.  It was put into the public domain by someone who should have known better.  The fact it is even being discussed here shows it had an effect.

[fygjam]

8 minutes ago, KWA said:

You quoted it above so it's existence isn't in doubt.  Whether it was used to provide numbers for beds and nurses or just to scare the public is immaterial.  It was put into the public domain by someone who should have known better.  The fact it is even being discussed here shows it had an effect.

It is only being discussed because a BM used it to bolster a certain argument.

I felt the need to correct the LIE and so responded.

The BM then felt the need to attribute words to me which I did not post.

When challenged all he can do is post stupid emojis because he doesn't have the balls to admit he was in fact lying.

 

 

[Thai Spice]

26 minutes ago, Esco said:

Everyone will remember the situation in Italy and Spain where the hospitals could not handle the amount of patients requiring care in ICU

Limited to a very few regions, not the whole country.

Same in France, where we went close to the limit in the North Eastern regions and in the North East of Paris.  But hospitals were never really overflown, and a number of patients were transferred to other, less touched, regions by plane and train, as well as to Germany.

A.military field hospital was set up in Mulhouse but barely used. 

 

 

[fforest]

[fygjam]

It started with a bloke going to a pub...

NSW has recorded its biggest COVID surge in months, with Premier Gladys Berejiklian
declaring she'll 'never say never' to another lockdown.

Ms Berejiklian has been outspoken in the past week over avoiding an “Andrews-style”
lockdown, calling it “no way to live”.

But after the state reported 20 new coronavirus cases, including a number connected to a
concerning outbreak at Batemans Bay on the south coast, Ms Berejiklian said her state is
“holding the line”.

Asked whether NSW was on the verge of another shutdown, she told reporters: “Well in a
pandemic, we never say never to anything, but certainly our strategy is to keep moving
forward.”

“I can’t say enough how stressed and worried I am about the next few weeks,” Ms
Berejiklian said.

 

I've said it before, small bikkies compared to other parts of the world, but it's small enough to shows how quickly a single infection can spread.

 

 

[KWA]

2 minutes ago, fygjam said:

It is only being discussed because a BM used it to bolster a certain argument.

And how could he do that if Australia's Deputy Chief Medical Officer hadn't come out with the figure as the potential number of deaths in the first place?

We had the same in the UK where the numbers were later discredited, but you can neither remove them from peoples' minds nor undo government actions taken as a result of them.

[roobob]

20 minutes ago, fygjam said:

It is only being discussed because a BM used it to bolster a certain argument.

I felt the need to correct the LIE and so responded.

The BM then felt the need to attribute words to me which I did not post.

When challenged all he can do is post stupid emojis because he doesn't have the balls to admit he was in fact lying.

 

 

As per KWA post below..... you have been proven wrong..... and I am not lying. 

The figure was quoted by authorities as the number of deaths that could/would occur.....and decisions were made by the same authorities on said figure.

cheers

 

5 minutes ago, KWA said:

And how could he do that if Australia's Deputy Chief Medical Officer hadn't come out with the figure as the potential number of deaths in the first place?

We had the same in the UK where the numbers were later discredited, but you can neither remove them from peoples' minds nor undo government actions taken as a result of them.

 

[fygjam]

17 minutes ago, KWA said:

And how could he do that if Australia's Deputy Chief Medical Officer hadn't come out with the figure as the potential number of deaths in the first place?

We had the same in the UK where the numbers were later discredited, but you can neither remove them from peoples' minds nor undo government actions taken as a result of them.

 

7 minutes ago, roobob said:

As per KWA post below..... you have been proven wrong..... and I am not lying. 

The figure was quoted by authorities as the number of deaths that could/would occur.....and decisions were made by the same authorities on said figure.

cheers

 

 

Time to put up or shut the fuk up.

Produce the minutes from the national cabinet meeting where they all agreed to go with the 150,000 deaths figure.

If you can't then it's all just fuking bullshit.

 

[roobob]

6 minutes ago, fygjam said:

 

Time to put up or shut the fuk up.

Produce the minutes from the national cabinet meeting where they all agreed to go with the 150,000 deaths figure.

If you can't then it's all just fuking bullshit.

 

Oh dear........ 

Look at the statement released on the 16 March 2020 by the Commonwealth Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly .... you know... the statement YOU posted....555.

cheers

Edited July 20, 2020 by roobob

[KWA]

2 minutes ago, fygjam said:

Time to put up or shut the fuk up.

Produce the minutes from the national cabinet meeting where they all agreed to go with the 150,000 deaths figure.

If you can't then it's all just fuking bullshit.

You're obviously (too) familiar with Google so I'm sure you can find your own references, whether it be from a cabinet meeting or online news.  Once they're said,  these numbers can not be unsaid, whether they are "fuking bullshit" or not.

 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/thousands-of-predicted-covid-19-deaths-never-eventuated-was-it-poor-modelling-or-our-response-20200527-p54wsn.html

 

[fygjam]

10 minutes ago, roobob said:

Oh dear........ 

Look at the statement released on the 16 March 2020 by the Commonwealth Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly .... you know... the statement YOU posted....555.

cheers

There you go, lying about what I posted again.

I posted bits of a press article about different scenarios put forward by the Commonwealth Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly. I did NOT post any statement by Kelly. 

You are claiming "authorities" used the figures. Provide the evidence to backup up you claims.

The "authorities" will be the national cabinet and the individual state cabinets. Provide the evidence that they all adopted the 150,000 figure as fact. If you can't provide the evidence then you are just another blowhard.

I know a leader of a certain country has empowered claims without evidence. I will call it when I see it.

 

Provide the evidence! Claims are not facts.

 

 

[fygjam]

9 minutes ago, KWA said:

You're obviously (too) familiar with Google so I'm sure you can find your own references, whether it be from a cabinet meeting or online news.  Once they're said,  these numbers can not be unsaid, whether they are "fuking bullshit" or not.

 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/thousands-of-predicted-covid-19-deaths-never-eventuated-was-it-poor-modelling-or-our-response-20200527-p54wsn.html

 

And yet NO EVIDENCE that the scenarios (there were three of them remember) were adopted by the national cabinet or the individual state cabinets in determining the lockdown measures.

Provide the evidence! Claims are not facts.

[roobob]

3 minutes ago, fygjam said:

And yet NO EVIDENCE that the scenarios (there were three of them remember) were adopted by the national cabinet or the individual state cabinets in determining the lockdown measures.

Provide the evidence! Claims are not facts.

               

cheers

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, KWA said:

You're obviously (too) familiar with Google so I'm sure you can find your own references, whether it be from a cabinet meeting or online news.  Once they're said,  these numbers can not be unsaid, whether they are "fuking bullshit" or not.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/thousands-of-predicted-covid-19-deaths-never-eventuated-was-it-poor-modelling-or-our-response-20200527-p54wsn.html

 

44 minutes ago, roobob said:

               

cheers

I can admit it. 

I was wrong. See it's not that hard to admit you make a mistake.

 

I googled further. Pity some of you others weren't so diligent. I found the actual transcript of the press conference Paul Kelly gave on March 16.

Paul Kelly DID NOT say 150,000 deaths. Neither did he say 100,000 deaths or even 50,000 deaths. In fact Paul Kelly did not put any figure on the possible number of deaths.

During post press conference questions Kelly was asked (I assume by a journalist) about infection rates, the question included the figures 20% and 60%, the 60% figure came from something Angela Merkel had said previously about Germany.

As part of his answer Kelly said "I'm not going to speculate on the actual numbers."

In answer to another question Kelly made the "1%, do the math" quote.

 

So the SMH did the math with their own figures plugging in the 1% (the only figure Kelly had mentioned) and came up with the 

Australia prepares for 50,000 to 150,000 coronavirus deaths

headline.

 

It was NEVER an official figure.

It was just a figure to sell newspapers. You've been duped by fake news.

 

So come on, grow a pair and admit you were wrong! You'll feel much better for it.

 

PS. I could have posted the link to the transcript of the press conference but nobody else wants to provide evidence so fuk it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by fygjam

[Washedup]

UK prepared for half million deaths, US prepared for 2.2 million deaths..Better Hold Fast 

[galenkia]

56 minutes ago, Washedup said:

UK prepared for half million deaths, US prepared for 2.2 million deaths..Better Hold Fast 

It was always better to overestimate in preparation than underestimate. 

Watched a documentary that filmed a Covid-19 ICU in a London hospital. There were ambulances queuing up to bring patients in.

[Washedup]

Second lockdown happening in Spain..Better Hold Fast 

[galenkia]

3 minutes ago, Washedup said:

Second lockdown happening in Spain..Better Hold Fast 

Rather than mass lockdowns like before I think governments will only target areas where it's increasing, too much devastation to the country otherwise. Gonna kill too many businesses.