COVID 19 GLOBAL

[roobob]

57 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

A difference to what?  I think the Australians were told that there could be up to X amount of deaths. Same in many other countries. Where more caution has been taken, the number of cases and deaths have dropped.

What effect of those misjudgements will be now?

Should people in places like USA, Brazil and India, just say f*ck.it, no one is going to die or less people than predicted may die.

It makes little difference only to those who believe that governments were deliberately lying and another excuse to ignore the virus as just a flu. But they would do that anyway.

There are still tons of unknowns about the virus. When the world saw the number of deaths in Wuhan, there was bound to be a reaction. 

Maybe it will please the hoaxer/conspiracy/globalist theorists

But it will not suddenly change the course of actions around the world which differ in all countries but perhaps give places like USA an excuse to reduce their number of deaths?

It has made a difference to the people who had/have an existing medical condition who could not have/get  access to treatment because of the "panic" by authorities to kotow to the CV19 and this was not refined to just Australia. 

What happened to those people is not a hoax.... not a conspiracy..... it happened and still is happening now. You ask a difference to what? Well it has made a difference to the health and well being...... healing process to many people who have had their treatment cancelled or postponed .

cheers

Edited July 19, 2020 by roobob

[roobob]

53 minutes ago, fygjam said:

No we weren't!

 

Yes we were.

cheers

[fygjam]

13 minutes ago, roobob said:

Yes we were.

cheers

No!

On the 16th March the Commonwealth Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly presented three possible scenarios.

The scenarios assumed a case fatality ratio of 1%. At the time CFRs from China and Italy were up to 4%.

The scenarios assumed infection rates of 20%, 40% and 60%. At the time there was limited testing (shortage of test kits) so the actual infection rate was uncertain.

Based on the assumptions presented in the scenarios the deaths could have been 50000, 100000 or 150000.

However the restrictions implemented were done on a state by state basis based on the advice to the state governments from the state medical officers.

150,000 deaths was NOT the blanket figure used to determine what restrictions would be put in place. At the time of Kelly's scenarios gatherings of up to 500 were permitted.

Of course the authorities didn't have a full handle on the virus. You thing they should have done a "Sweden" and waited a year or so?

Perhaps Australia's low death count can be attributed to action being taken early rather than dithering around like some other countries.

In Western Australia we have had only 9 deaths of which only 1 was from local transmission. The lockdown worked.

In Western Australia we are almost out of lockdown. We probably would have been except Victoria dropped the ball.

You want to see how quickly things can get out of hand. Keep your eye on the NSW Crossroads Hotel cluster.

 

150,000 deaths was just one figure based on a particular scenario. It was not the figure necessarily used  although I'm sure it had a place in the decision maker's considerations.

But saying that it was the "magic" number is just to push you particular agenda!

Try dealing in facts and ALL the facts next time.

 

 

[roobob]

20 minutes ago, fygjam said:

 

150,000 deaths was just one figure based on a particular scenario. It was not the figure necessarily used  although I'm sure it had a place in the decision maker's considerations.

But saying that it was the "magic" number is just to push you particular agenda!

Try dealing in facts and ALL the facts next time.

 

 

Yes.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Now in bold above..... first you say the figure is used..... then you say it was not necessarily used.

On your last sentence... practise what you preach.

Authorities in Australia have been caught out.... they said that 150,000 deaths will occur...... we have had 122 deaths.... many people have had their treatment for their current health issues cancelled/postponed while medical services were/are put on hold to await these 150,000 deaths that has not occurred to the detriment of many people's health.... well being...and  quality of life.

Those are the facts.

cheers

[fygjam]

4 minutes ago, roobob said:

Yes.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Now in bold above..... first you say the figure is used..... then you say it was not necessarily used.

On your last sentence... practise what you preach.

Authorities in Australia have been caught out.... they said that 150,000 deaths will occur...... we have had 122 deaths.... many people have had their treatment for their current health issues cancelled/postponed while medical services were/are put on hold to await these 150,000 deaths that has not occurred to the detriment of many people's health.... well being...and  quality of life.

Those are the facts.

cheers

Where?

Stick to facts!

Just in case you can't remember what I actually posted.

34 minutes ago, fygjam said:

No!

On the 16th March the Commonwealth Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly presented three possible scenarios.

The scenarios assumed a case fatality ratio of 1%. At the time CFRs from China and Italy were up to 4%.

The scenarios assumed infection rates of 20%, 40% and 60%. At the time there was limited testing (shortage of test kits) so the actual infection rate was uncertain.

Based on the assumptions presented in the scenarios the deaths could have been 50000, 100000 or 150000.

However the restrictions implemented were done on a state by state basis based on the advice to the state governments from the state medical officers.

150,000 deaths was NOT the blanket figure used to determine what restrictions would be put in place. At the time of Kelly's scenarios gatherings of up to 500 were permitted.

Of course the authorities didn't have a full handle on the virus. You thing they should have done a "Sweden" and waited a year or so?

Perhaps Australia's low death count can be attributed to action being taken early rather than dithering around like some other countries.

In Western Australia we have had only 9 deaths of which only 1 was from local transmission. The lockdown worked.

In Western Australia we are almost out of lockdown. We probably would have been except Victoria dropped the ball.

You want to see how quickly things can get out of hand. Keep your eye on the NSW Crossroads Hotel cluster.

 

150,000 deaths was just one figure based on a particular scenario. It was not the figure necessarily used  although I'm sure it had a place in the decision maker's considerations.

But saying that it was the "magic" number is just to push you particular agenda!

Try dealing in facts and ALL the facts next time.

 

[fygjam]

Two hairstylists who had coronavirus saw 140 clients. No new infections have been linked to the salon, officials say

Updated 2239 GMT (0639 HKT) June 11, 2020

No cases of coronavirus have been linked to two Missouri hairstylists who saw 140 clients last month while symptomatic, county health officials said.

Both stylists worked at the same Great Clips location in Springfield. The clients and the stylists all wore face coverings, and the salon had set up other measures such as social distancing of chairs and staggered appointments, the Springfield-Greene County Health Department said this week.

Of the 140 clients and seven co-workers potentially exposed, 46 took tests that came back negative. All the others were quarantined for the duration of the coronavirus incubation period. The 14-day incubation period has now passed with no coronavirus cases linked to the salon beyond the two stylists, county health officials said.

During the quarantine, those who did not get tested got a call twice a day from health officials asking whether they had symptoms related to Covid-19, said Kathryn Wall, a spokeswoman for the Springfield-Green County Health Department.

"This is exciting news about the value of masking to prevent Covid-19," said Clay Goddard, the county's director of health.

 

 

So do masks works or is it just a case where you can't catch coronavirus in a hair salon.

 

 

[fygjam]

17 minutes ago, roobob said:

Yes.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Now in bold above..... first you say the figure is used..... then you say it was not necessarily used.

On your last sentence... practise what you preach.

Authorities in Australia have been caught out.... they said that 150,000 deaths will occur...... we have had 122 deaths.... many people have had their treatment for their current health issues cancelled/postponed while medical services were/are put on hold to await these 150,000 deaths that has not occurred to the detriment of many people's health.... well being...and  quality of life.

Those are the facts.

cheers

Only sad that you can't back up your claims.

 

[fygjam]

19 minutes ago, roobob said:

Yes.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Now in bold above..... first you say the figure is used..... then you say it was not necessarily used.

On your last sentence... practise what you preach.

Authorities in Australia have been caught out.... they said that 150,000 deaths will occur...... we have had 122 deaths.... many people have had their treatment for their current health issues cancelled/postponed while medical services were/are put on hold to await these 150,000 deaths that has not occurred to the detriment of many people's health.... well being...and  quality of life.

Those are the facts.

cheers

So you can't back it up.

 

[lazarus]

3 hours ago, roobob said:

I do not think anyone is downplaying the seriousness of CV19.... I think that everyone just want honesty and openness from the ones in charge and from what is starting to come to the fore now with questions being asked.... they have not delivered it.

People have no problem doing things asked if all the information is being given to them...and on the performances from some authorities.... this has not been forth coming.

cheers 

Sure, people want honesty from their government(s). Unfortunately, not going to happen. Bureaucracies are notoriously full of error. And, that does not even include the political shenanigans at play (such as Trump & Co. taking over C-19 data collection from the CDC).

My comment was mainly addressed to people -- individuals -- that choose to not follow public health advisories or regulations that are intended to keep ALL people safe. They justify their actions by downplaying or disputing the powers that be in their respective locales.  Plus, there are people that just don't give a sh*t about anyone else and do as they please regardless of the consequences of their actions (or lack thereof).

Infections will continue in places where the virus has not been eradicated as long as people do not take precautions. That is the nature of viruses and it is proven that C-19 is very aggressive.

[roobob]

45 minutes ago, lazarus said:

Sure, people want honesty from their government(s). Unfortunately, not going to happen. Bureaucracies are notoriously full of error. And, that does not even include the political shenanigans at play (such as Trump & Co. taking over C-19 data collection from the CDC).

My comment was mainly addressed to people -- individuals -- that choose to not follow public health advisories or regulations that are intended to keep ALL people safe. They justify their actions by downplaying or disputing the powers that be in their respective locales.  Plus, there are people that just don't give a sh*t about anyone else and do as they please regardless of the consequences of their actions (or lack thereof).

Infections will continue in places where the virus has not been eradicated as long as people do not take precautions. That is the nature of viruses and it is proven that C-19 is very aggressive.

Understand what you say but on some things I can also understand why some question the decisions that they want us to do as some information they feed us is as you say full of errors.  

The virus will not be eradicated...it is here to stay...even when a vaccine is found...which is hopefully soon.... but the virus will still be around but again hopefully more easily managed with the vaccine.

Once a vaccine is found... another problem will raise it's head..... some people are anti vax....there will be people who will refuse to take it...... much the same as when previous vaccines were introduced.

cheers

Edited July 19, 2020 by roobob

[Nightcrawler]

3 hours ago, roobob said:

It has made a difference to the people who had/have an existing medical condition who could not have/get  access to treatment because of the "panic" by authorities to kotow to the CV19 and this was not refined to just Australia. 

What happened to those people is not a hoax.... not a conspiracy..... it happened and still is happening now. You ask a difference to what? Well it has made a difference to the health and well being...... healing process to many people who have had their treatment cancelled or postponed .

cheers

If hospital beds were filling up it was because.people needed them. Many of the deaths happened at home or in care homes.

But is makes no difference to how they were counted either at the time or later. It appears that the error was in the way that the data was collected and processed.  Some of those were recorded as being Covid related that were either natural deaths or non Covid related. 

The UK govt quickly set up the Nightingale emergency Hospital beds for expected growth in Covid related illnesses but now it is empty.  I don't see how any has died due to any government miscalculating either the expected number of deaths or by miscalculation of those who died. 

The fact remains that if governments who miscalculated the numbers of Covid related mistakes simple need to explain how and why that happened.  But apart from altering some people's perceptions, we would still be where we are now and that is my point

Most countries around the world were very ill prepared for this epidemic especially with its speed and severity.  The main focus was in treating the sick and locking down the spread.

If fewer people have died as a result of the virus then that's good new but still millions across the globe have, as a result of the virus especially the elderly, sick and for some reason, those who had a very poor reaction to the virus. We still don't know all of the reasons that some younger and seemingly health people died

To me it's rather like a battle where at first, numbers of casualties and deaths are reported. Then later, those figures change with better information.  But it didn't change the battle of the outcome of the battle

 

[Nightcrawler]

3 hours ago, roobob said:

Understand what you say but on some things I can also understand why some question the decisions that they want us to do as some information they feed us is as you say full of errors.  

The virus will not be eradicated...it is here to stay...even when a vaccine is found...which is hopefully soon.... but the virus will still be around but again hopefully more easily managed with the vaccine.

Once a vaccine is found... another problem will raise it's head..... some people are anti vax....there will be people who will refuse to take it...... much the same as when previous vaccines were introduced.

cheers

It may seem harsh, but if those who refuse to have the vaccine should expect to pay for their treatment if they get sick.

I am speaking mainly here about NHS resources.

Nevertheless, even if a small minority of people refuse a vaccine, then even if the have the virus, they won't be able to infect those who have. The virus will only stay around if it has enough hosts to survive in. It cannot live without a host although that is a general assumption. 

What is not known, is how some people become super spreaders without having any Covid symptoms. 

Some of those who refuse the Vaccine could be super spreaders themselves. Hopefully within a year or so it will become easier for us all to have a test for C19, and a test for antibodies. 

I am not a scientist and know no more than anyone else apart from what I read, but I would assume that at the rate that scientists and drug companies are currently working on vaccines and treatment to halt the effects of the virus,that within a couple of years, it will be over. 

Then all the post mortems can take place (I don't mean of individuals) but the mistakes that were made and how to prevent them for any future pandemics and there will be plenty in the future, but not necessarily in our Lifetime.

My feeling is that if we all work together, forget the politics for now, and concentrate in reducing the spread, then that may keep us going until either a vaccine or a cure/treatment becomes available.  Less people will die, less cases will be recorded and Lockdowns will continue to ease, an the economy and quality of  can start to recover

Some may say, I'm a dreamer, but I am not the only one 

(John Lennon RIP)

[fforest]

100 'covid deaths' so-called out of 25 mill is 0.000004% of Australia's population!

[fforest]

[grayray]

I have been wearing a mask out of the house,down to the doctors,pharmacy,shopping centres since march,last 3 days down the local,i have not,

we can live in hope,that no Victorians was in the place

regards

grayray

[fforest]

[galenkia]

6 minutes ago, grayray said:

I have been wearing a mask out of the house,down to the doctors,pharmacy,shopping centres since march,last 3 days down the local,i have not,

we can live in hope,that no Victorians was in the place

regards

grayray

If you had Victorians in there they probably look like this. 😀

[lazarus]

15 minutes ago, fforest said:

Same "smart" folks who burned books & witches..!

[lazarus]

Simple stuff...wear a mask in public when around people until the pandemic is declared under control & how hard is that..? 😉

ps: you can wear one at home, too, if that's your thing!

Edited July 20, 2020 by lazarus

[Stillearly]

10 hours ago, dcfc2007 said:

I don't think it's a threat to all of us. I think it's a threat to the elderly and those with serious disabilities. When I'm around those people I take precautions, other than that, I won't be changing a single thing. I don't wear a mask, I don't socially distances, it's not a threat to the vast majority of people. Behaving like it's the end of the world is destroying the economy, bankrupting businesses and costing jobs. 

Five months into this and you still don't have a fucking clue .... 

[Krapow]

21 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

Five months into this and you still don't have a fucking clue .... 

[grayray]

50 minutes ago, galenkia said:

If you had Victorians in there they probably look like this. 😀

Gal,

Victorians as in the State of Victoria,aka Mexicans, you know? south of the border

regards

grayray

[Krapow]

54 minutes ago, fforest said:

So how's America currently doing re Covid, just out of interest?

[fforest]

Another Covid-19 fatality.

Edited July 20, 2020 by fforest

[roobob]

8 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

If hospital beds were filling up it was because.people needed them. Many of the deaths happened at home or in care homes.

But is makes no difference to how they were counted either at the time or later. It appears that the error was in the way that the data was collected and processed.  Some of those were recorded as being Covid related that were either natural deaths or non Covid related. 

The UK govt quickly set up the Nightingale emergency Hospital beds for expected growth in Covid related illnesses but now it is empty.  I don't see how any has died due to any government miscalculating either the expected number of deaths or by miscalculation of those who died. 

The fact remains that if governments who miscalculated the numbers of Covid related mistakes simple need to explain how and why that happened.  But apart from altering some people's perceptions, we would still be where we are now and that is my point

Most countries around the world were very ill prepared for this epidemic especially with its speed and severity.  The main focus was in treating the sick and locking down the spread.

If fewer people have died as a result of the virus then that's good new but still millions across the globe have, as a result of the virus especially the elderly, sick and for some reason, those who had a very poor reaction to the virus. We still don't know all of the reasons that some younger and seemingly health people died

To me it's rather like a battle where at first, numbers of casualties and deaths are reported. Then later, those figures change with better information.  But it didn't change the battle of the outcome of the battle

 

It does matter how they were counted as the decisions being made were based on the number of deaths and on going cases of the virus. Yes they set up emergency hospital beds...many not used.... but they also stopped other medical treatments that people needed due to the numbers that they were making their decisions on.

Many on going medical treatments could have kept going... but they did not..... and that will have an impact on some peoples life expectancy ..... future health concerns.... and life style.... in fact it already has and will into the immediate future.

People have died with other illnesses due to Govts cancelling/postponing their treatment due to the reaction they took to CV19.... bottom line people could not get treatment from their health systems for their illness. You say that it is just a simple case of the Govt need to explain how and why that happened.... I am sure that will be appease the people who have passed away and their loved ones ... I can see them accepting the explanation from the Govt that the deaths were just collateral damage because they got their figures wrong. As you said previously about CV19 deaths..... don't these deaths matter??

cheers