Pattaya lawyers to Notarize "Life Certificates" signatures etc

[Derek Dangleberries]

It has been about 5 years since I received a "Life Certification" document that needed a Notary to witness my signature. For all the young thrusters out there that are not aware of such a thing, it is legalised confirmation that us old wrinklies are still alive and thus should continue receiving our pensions.

 I kept my search local, the same as 5 years ago...All three are within 50m of each other opposite Big C Pattaya Tai, with loads of parking and very near the Baht bus route..This may not be convenient for all of you but can act as a guide.

In descending order of price:

1. KEY VISA. 5 years ago it was 1,000 Baht but this morning's quote over the phone was 1,500 Baht.

2. JAN INTER LAW. 5 years ago it was 1,000 Baht and this morning's quote over the phone remains 1,000 Baht

3. THAI-EURO LAW. (Tel-09699159153)This was my choice 5 years ago. It was 500 Baht then and it was 500 Baht this morning! An excellent experience!! Cheap, quick and thoroughly professional service.

 

[KWA]

There's a lot of recent discussion about this on Aseannow as all the forms seem to have been sent out recently.  The consensus seems to be that almost any Tom, Dick or Harry can sign as long as they are "persons of good standing in their community" which is open to a wide interpretation.  A list of examples is here and includes your local bar owner.  One poster even claims to sign his own - just makes something up!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/814507/5_Life_Certificate_Witness_Options.pdf

 

[Derek Dangleberries]

1 minute ago, KWA said:

There's a lot of recent discussion about this on Aseannow as all the forms seem to have been sent out recently.  The consensus seems to be that almost any Tom, Dick or Harry can sign as long as they are "persons of good standing in their community" which is open to a wide interpretation.  A list of examples is here and includes your local bar owner.  One poster even claims to sign his own - just makes something up!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/814507/5_Life_Certificate_Witness_Options.pdf

 

Oh how the mighty have fallen! It used to be a forum of strict moral and legal fortitude offering instant deportation to the colonies for mere whispers of unrest in the ranks!!!

But how desperately poor must some people be to do a "work around" to save 500Baht every 5 years or so to continue getting their pensions.

Not worth the risk IMO..

Disclaimer: I am only referring to us City types because I am fully aware of the restrictions inherent with "living in the village" having done so for 16 years.

[Pumpuynarak]

17 hours ago, KWA said:

There's a lot of recent discussion about this on Aseannow as all the forms seem to have been sent out recently.  The consensus seems to be that almost any Tom, Dick or Harry can sign as long as they are "persons of good standing in their community" which is open to a wide interpretation.  A list of examples is here and includes your local bar owner.  One poster even claims to sign his own - just makes something up!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/814507/5_Life_Certificate_Witness_Options.pdf

 

As long as they can read English lol, i've just received one. I take it along to a local Thai lawyer who reads English, it was 500bht 4 years ago but no doubt it will have increased by now. We also have Isaan lawyers who can carry out for you. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Pumpuynarak

[Derek Dangleberries]

1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

As long as they can read English lol, i've just received one. I take it along to a local Thai lawyer who reads English, it was 500bht 4 years ago but no doubt it will have increased by now. We also have Isaan lawyers who can carry out for you. 

Thanks for jumping in with your experience outside of Pattaya. It made me realise that we are thinking too narrowly..

What about other country's requirements? Do they have such loosely defined Notaries ? Do they have to do Life Certificates for their pensions?

Perhaps @forcebwithu @Yesitisdakid @ChiFlyer ....and anybody else, can let us know .......

EDIT = I notice that @Bryanis online .Perhaps he could quote his prices as I didn't check them, sorry for the omission.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Derek Dangleberries

[Glasseye]

I have only used notary services (U.S. State Dept., Embassy (Consulate)  here in CM for legal documents (for the U.S.). According to my attorney back home it is the only acceptable notary (for U.S. related documents... I would reckon it would be the same for the U.K.). Hopefully I will not be needing to deal with that anytime soon.

I have yet to need a document notarized that required witnesses.

For the Thai will I plan to put together at some point it will require witnesses. The Thai lawyer says they can handle that. That's good enough for me.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Glasseye

[forcebwithu]

2 hours ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

Thanks for jumping in with your experience outside of Pattaya. It made me realise that we are thinking too narrowly..

What about other country's requirements? Do they have such loosely defined Notaries ? Do they have to do Life Certificates for their pensions?

Perhaps @forcebwithu @Yesitisdakid @ChiFlyer ....and anybody else, can let us know .......

EDIT = I notice that @Bryanis online .Perhaps he could quote his prices as I didn't check them, sorry for the omission.

I'll echo what @Glasseye wrote about US legal documents.

It was about 10 years ago I did a refinance on my house and the loan company wanted, IIRC, six pages of legal documents notarized. They wouldn't budge on the requirement even after I explained the Embassy was going to charge me $50 for each page notarized. I was pissed, but no way around it so had to bite the bullet and pay.

For US Social Security benefits we have to do annual proof of life filing. No notary required, but because the Soc Sec computer system is so antiquated the form is snail mailed to us and we have to snail mail it back after signing it. No witness or notary required.

[Toy Boy]

From what I've read over the last year on AseanNow, you can get the proof of life for the UK state pension signed for free at a police station.

My main occupational pensions have, so far, only once in the last seven years sent me a proof of life form, and I was able to just complete and return it myself, no notarisation required.

On the snail mail front, I just received a Christmas card posted in the UK well before Christmas that took over 7 weeks to get here. If you're using snail mail to or from the UK, just be aware of how slow it is these striking days.

One question, any Dutch members here? I worked for 7 years in the Netherlands and so will qualify for a Dutch state pension in around 2 years time. I gather that they will want a proof of life done every year and are very strict about who can sign it. I've been told several times, though, that you can get it authorised at a Thai social security office. Sounds good, but can anyone tell me where or what a Thai social security office in Pattaya is?

[ChiFlyer]

33 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

I'll echo what @Glasseye wrote about US legal documents.

It was about 10 years ago I did a refinance on my house and the loan company wanted, IIRC, six pages of legal documents notarized. They wouldn't budge on the requirement even after I explained the Embassy was going to charge me $50 for each page notarized. I was pissed, but no way around it so had to bite the bullet and pay.

For US Social Security benefits we have to do annual proof of life filing. No notary required, but because the Soc Sec computer system is so antiquated the form is snail mailed to us and we have to snail mail it back after signing it. No witness or notary required.

Interesting in that I have never done a proof of life filing for SS, despite collecting benefits without incident for 8 years now. I do use their online system, which I think you have to register for. I have found it to be pretty decent.

https://www.ssa.gov/

 

[Trip]

14 minutes ago, ChiFlyer said:

Interesting in that I have never done a proof of life filing for SS, despite collecting benefits without incident for 8 years now. I do use their online system, which I think you have to register for. I have found it to be pretty decent.

https://www.ssa.gov/

 

Same same me. I've collected SS benefits for several years and have never been asked for proof of life.

[ChiFlyer]

Based on my experiences, the preferred and often mandatory notarization for US legal documents and their acceptance in courts is having it done at the US Embassy. One needs to make an appointment for that service.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/acsappointment/

During the height of Covid the US Embassy suspended notary services for over a year. During that time I needed two documents notarized. One for the sale of a house and the other to complete a divorce. My US attorneys found ways around the Embassy notarization in both cases.

Many US states provide for online notary services. Unfortunately, I am a legal resident of IL which does not accept online notary services.

For the house sale my attorney was able to get the office that accepts house deeds to accept a recorded Zoom call.

For the divorce the attorney got the judge to agree to accept a notary I had done by a Thai law office.

Thailand is requiring that I have a notary done by the US Embassy in Bangkok for my statement that I will not become a bigamist with regard to my upcoming marriage to a Thai National. I also need a notarization for an image of my US passport. The later can be done through the mail

[forcebwithu]

24 minutes ago, ChiFlyer said:

Interesting in that I have never done a proof of life filing for SS, despite collecting benefits without incident for 8 years now. I do use their online system, which I think you have to register for. I have found it to be pretty decent.

https://www.ssa.gov/

 

 

9 minutes ago, Trip said:

Same same me. I've collected SS benefits for several years and have never been asked for proof of life.

As I understand it, the proof of life is only required if you use an overseas address for Soc Sec. I also believe having an overseas address is the reason I'm not able to use MySSA account to change the bank my payment goes to.

[Glasseye]

4 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

I'll echo what @Glasseye wrote about US legal documents.

It was about 10 years ago I did a refinance on my house and the loan company wanted, IIRC, six pages of legal documents notarized. They wouldn't budge on the requirement even after I explained the Embassy was going to charge me $50 for each page notarized. I was pissed, but no way around it so had to bite the bullet and pay.

For US Social Security benefits we have to do annual proof of life filing. No notary required, but because the Soc Sec computer system is so antiquated the form is snail mailed to us and we have to snail mail it back after signing it. No witness or notary required.

I have had to spend over $300 using these services. But, I was able to close a house sale, and settle an estate using those services without having to go back.

 

Many documents can be signed using document signing (docusign or something like that), but notary has to go through the embassy, which can be onerous.

You have to make an appointment which can take up to a month to wait. But... if you appeal to them with a direct email or two they may move up the date to even the next day. You have to work the system. Not always easy, but it can be done.

[Glasseye]

3 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

 

As I understand it, the proof of life is only required if you use an overseas address for Soc Sec. I also believe having an overseas address is the reason I'm not able to use MySSA account to change the bank my payment goes to.

 

Doing things on SSA website has been relatively easy for me. I just changed my direct deposit to my a new U.S. bank on their website. It took about 10 minutes.

[Glasseye]

3 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Based on my experiences, the preferred and often mandatory notarization for US legal documents and their acceptance in courts is having it done at the US Embassy. One needs to make an appointment for that service.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/acsappointment/

During the height of Covid the US Embassy suspended notary services for over a year. During that time I needed two documents notarized. One for the sale of a house and the other to complete a divorce. My US attorneys found ways around the Embassy notarization in both cases.

Many US states provide for online notary services. Unfortunately, I am a legal resident of IL which does not accept online notary services.

For the house sale my attorney was able to get the office that accepts house deeds to accept a recorded Zoom call.

For the divorce the attorney got the judge to agree to accept a notary I had done by a Thai law office.

Thailand is requiring that I have a notary done by the US Embassy in Bangkok for my statement that I will not become a bigamist with regard to my upcoming marriage to a Thai National. I also need a notarization for an image of my US passport. The later can be done through the mail

 

Yep... It can be a minefield.

 

Always keep a U.S. bank (or two) and U.S. address. 

 

Without it you can find yourself royally f***d.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Glasseye

[Yesitisdakid]

3 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

 

As I understand it, the proof of life is only required if you use an overseas address for Soc Sec. I also believe having an overseas address is the reason I'm not able to use MySSA account to change the bank my payment goes to.

Yes and this is the exact reason I keep a US address I don't want to go through the yearly hassle that I have seen others have to go through. 

[Freee!!]

11 hours ago, Toy Boy said:

[...]

One question, any Dutch members here? I worked for 7 years in the Netherlands and so will qualify for a Dutch state pension in around 2 years time. I gather that they will want a proof of life done every year and are very strict about who can sign it. I've been told several times, though, that you can get it authorised at a Thai social security office. Sounds good, but can anyone tell me where or what a Thai social security office in Pattaya is?

That is two questions, yes to the first and don't know to the second. I can also tell you it won't be much (about € 200 a month by that time, assuming you are single).

[forcebwithu]

15 hours ago, Glasseye said:

I have had to spend over $300 using these services. But, I was able to close a house sale, and settle an estate using those services without having to go back.

Many documents can be signed using document signing (docusign or something like that), but notary has to go through the embassy, which can be onerous.

You have to make an appointment which can take up to a month to wait. But... if you appeal to them with a direct email or two they may move up the date to even the next day. You have to work the system. Not always easy, but it can be done.

I sold my house last June and didn't have to go back for the closing. E-signatures and the my son using Financial Power of Attorney made it relatively easy.

Speaking of POA, surprised more don't use it. The POA I granted my son was done decades ago while still living in the US. I wanted him to able to handle my financial matters if there was ever a time I was incapacitated.

[forcebwithu]

15 hours ago, Yesitisdakid said:

Yes and this is the exact reason I keep a US address I don't want to go through the yearly hassle that I have seen others have to go through. 

I still have a US address, my son's. I would have used it for applying for Social Security, except I cocked things up by using MySSA to apply for Medicare a few months before I decided to start collecting Soc Sec.

Another example of the poorly designed Soc Sec computer system. I found out after the fact if you don't use the online system to apply for both Medicare and Soc Sec at the same time you have to go the manual route which requires an office visit, or if out of country a call.

During the call they asked where I was living. At that point I wasn't about to lie and jeopardize my Soc Sec payments. So even though my payments are deposited to my US bank account, they know I'm living in Thailand and have to do the proof of life filing.

Not a  big deal as the form is quick to fill out and it only costs, IIRC, around 60B to mail back.

[Pumpuynarak]

21 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

The POA I granted my son was done decades ago while still living in the US. I wanted him to able to handle my financial matters if there was ever a time I was incapacitated.

Ditto, i've done the same in the UK.

[Glasseye]

58 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

I sold my house last June and didn't have to go back for the closing. E-signatures and the my son using Financial Power of Attorney made it relatively easy.

Speaking of POA, surprised more don't use it. The POA I granted my son was done decades ago while still living in the US. I wanted him to able to handle my financial matters if there was ever a time I was incapacitated.

 

Excellent idea.

[Toy Boy]

12 hours ago, Freee!! said:

That is two questions, yes to the first and don't know to the second. I can also tell you it won't be much (about € 200 a month by that time, assuming you are single).

Yes, that's about right. I got an estimate a few years ago and it was around £1,500/year, and with indexation since then I guesstimated it might now be worth £2K if I'm lucky. I paid the contributions, anyway, so I will claim it. Do you have any Dutch mates living out here who might know how to get the proof of life certified?

[Derek Dangleberries]

Just now, Toy Boy said:

I paid the contributions, anyway, so I will claim it.

Slightly related to your situation..I was registered and paid tax in Norway for some time but when it came time to reclaiming any benefits it seemed that you had to be a Norwegian resident to qualify...

[Yesitisdakid]

6 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

I still have a US address, my son's. I would have used it for applying for Social Security, except I cocked things up by using MySSA to apply for Medicare a few months before I decided to start collecting Soc Sec.

Another example of the poorly designed Soc Sec computer system. I found out after the fact if you don't use the online system to apply for both Medicare and Soc Sec at the same time you have to go the manual route which requires an office visit, or if out of country a call.

During the call they asked where I was living. At that point I wasn't about to lie and jeopardize my Soc Sec payments. So even though my payments are deposited to my US bank account, they know I'm living in Thailand and have to do the proof of life filing.

Not a  big deal as the form is quick to fill out and it only costs, IIRC, around 60B to mail back.

This is interesting as I never applied for Medicare. I was sent a Medicare card 30 days before it was to take effect with a letter saying if i chose to keep enrolled do nothing and if i chose to opt out let them know on line so they would cancel my card and not deduct the cost from my monthly benefit. I was dreading dealing with it but never had to it turned out

[Glasseye]

54 minutes ago, Yesitisdakid said:

This is interesting as I never applied for Medicare. I was sent a Medicare card 30 days before it was to take effect with a letter saying if i chose to keep enrolled do nothing and if i chose to opt out let them know on line so they would cancel my card and not deduct the cost from my monthly benefit. I was dreading dealing with it but never had to it turned out

 

I've begun researching it all. I have to take in little bits and pieces because it can be mind boggling at times. 

I will for sure sign up for it. 

A question that a lot of guys seem to be contending with is whether or not to go with Part B or not. 

There are many different options.

I think most folks on SS get automatically enrolled (not 100% sure on this though), but the ticker is if you want benefits you are penalized a certain % each year after 65 that you don't pay into it.

- then there are issues with Medicare Advantage vs. standard Medicare, and how to balance that with any private insurance you may have. 

Cluster F@#k no matter how you look at it, and shit is changing all the time. Many different angles and everyone has a different shoe size.