john luke Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 There are a couple of threads on the forum and I had a week in Malta last week, arriving in the UK the early hours on last Sunday morning. From that I got a taxi home. Yesterday afternoon I received both an SMS and an e-mail, advising me that 'NHS Test and Trace has identified you as a contact of someone who recently tested positive for Covid 19.' Dates on the message and links from the message suggest that said contact took place on Sunday, which suggests either contact on the flight, in the queue for luggage or queue for immigration/passport control. The outcome is that I am not required to self isolate but should and indeed I have arranged for a PCR test via NHS Test and Trace Website. (Peripherally since arriving home I have tested negative for Covid 19 on the day two test (PCR) and three lateral flow tests, the latest being earlier this morning.) This and BM @Butch s thread about direct flights got me thinking. Where are the risks in flying and how can these be reduced. Looking at the Malta trip, I think the risks are as follows. Jet2 do not have business class travel nor gold/platinum frequent flyer status. There was one large snake type queue for luggage drop off and check in for all Jet2 flights out of the airport and I was queuing for somewhere around 45 minutes. Social Distancing was nil, however everyone was wearing masks. Queuing at Malta Airport for check in, passport control etc was also around the 45 minutes time period. No Social Distancing however people were wearing masks and everyone on the flight should have provided a negative lateral flow test in the 72 hours prior to the flight. The flight was about a third full. No one was sitting within two metres of me. It was a 3 + 3 configuration and people did walk along the aisle to visit the toilet etc. Luggage collection and Passport control on arrival in UK. Overall less than 15 minutes and people wearing masks and pretty much Social Distanced. Taxi from airport home. My conclusion is that my 'contact' was probably another passenger on the flight. Applying this to a trip to Thailand, what are the risks and how can they be minimised. Business Class. I noticed @Butchquoted economy fares in his post. My submission is that Business Class presents a lower risk than economy, in that the seats are more spaced out, the cabin is rarely anything like full and priority boarding and airport lounges do keep one away from the masses. The sandbox scheme at Phuket may involve a long haul flight and then a second flight on a much smaller plane down to Phuket. My submission is that travel on this second flight significantly increases the risks. What do members think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcrawler Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, john luke said: There are a couple of threads on the forum and I had a week in Malta last week, arriving in the UK the early hours on last Sunday morning. From that I got a taxi home. Yesterday afternoon I received both an SMS and an e-mail, advising me that 'NHS Test and Trace has identified you as a contact of someone who recently tested positive for Covid 19.' Dates on the message and links from the message suggest that said contact took place on Sunday, which suggests either contact on the flight, in the queue for luggage or queue for immigration/passport control. The outcome is that I am not required to self isolate but should and indeed I have arranged for a PCR test via NHS Test and Trace Website. (Peripherally since arriving home I have tested negative for Covid 19 on the day two test (PCR) and three lateral flow tests, the latest being earlier this morning.) This and BM @Butch s thread about direct flights got me thinking. Where are the risks in flying and how can these be reduced. Looking at the Malta trip, I think the risks are as follows. Jet2 do not have business class travel nor gold/platinum frequent flyer status. There was one large snake type queue for luggage drop off and check in for all Jet2 flights out of the airport and I was queuing for somewhere around 45 minutes. Social Distancing was nil, however everyone was wearing masks. Queuing at Malta Airport for check in, passport control etc was also around the 45 minutes time period. No Social Distancing however people were wearing masks and everyone on the flight should have provided a negative lateral flow test in the 72 hours prior to the flight. The flight was about a third full. No one was sitting within two metres of me. It was a 3 + 3 configuration and people did walk along the aisle to visit the toilet etc. Luggage collection and Passport control on arrival in UK. Overall less than 15 minutes and people wearing masks and pretty much Social Distanced. Taxi from airport home. My conclusion is that my 'contact' was probably another passenger on the flight. Applying this to a trip to Thailand, what are the risks and how can they be minimised. Business Class. I noticed @Butchquoted economy fares in his post. My submission is that Business Class presents a lower risk than economy, in that the seats are more spaced out, the cabin is rarely anything like full and priority boarding and airport lounges do keep one away from the masses. The sandbox scheme at Phuket may involve a long haul flight and then a second flight on a much smaller plane down to Phuket. My submission is that travel on this second flight significantly increases the risks. What do members think? Interesting topic. I don't know much about aviation technology but, isn't exhaled air recirculated with oxygen at altitude or is it extracted or filtered in some way? I would imagine that sitting next to or ib front or behind another passenger who could be Covid positive, for a long period of time, could be quite a high risk of getting infected. I don't think that track and trace can ever be 100% accurate before entering an aircraft. But must significantly reduce the spread during a flight. At least being vaccinated reduces to risk of becoming ill a few days after arrival. That said, it's more a question as I am fairly ignorant on the matter, which prompts me to to do research before flying, when I finally get the opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john luke Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said: Interesting topic. I don't know much about aviation technology but, isn't exhaled air recirculated with oxygen at altitude or is it extracted or filtered in some way? I would imagine that sitting next to or ib front or behind another passenger who could be Covid positive, for a long period of time, could be quite a high risk of getting infected. I don't think that track and trace can ever be 100% accurate before entering an aircraft. But must significantly reduce the spread during a flight. At least being vaccinated reduces to risk of becoming ill a few days after arrival. That said, it's more a question as I am fairly ignorant on the matter https://www.travelpulse.com/news/features/how-likely-is-it-to-get-covid-19-flying-on-a-plane.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillearly Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 In Butch's examples , Thai were flying direct to Phuket , so even less hassle and less risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Dangleberries Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stillearly said: In Butch's examples , Thai were flying direct to Phuket , so even less hassle and less risk It would be interesting to know what services were provided, were masks worn the whole flight and if 2m seat spacing was implemented for the Phuket Sandbox scheme. I am strictly a "No wine - no fly" person! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillearly Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Derek Dangleberries said: It would be interesting to know what services were provided, were masks worn the whole flight and if 2m seat spacing was implemented for the Phuket Sandbox scheme. I am strictly a "No wine - no fly" person! Pretty sure it's the same with all airlines, masks on when walking about the cabin , but when eating and drinking no problem not seen any airline that has a 2m rule ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Dangleberries Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Stillearly said: not seen any airline that has a 2m rule ... I thought it was supposed to be every other seat as in a bank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillearly Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Dangleberries said: I thought it was supposed to be every other seat as in a bank.... I've been on three return flights in the last few months , not seen that .. with a 2m rule the rows in front and behind would also need to be clear ? Edited September 24, 2021 by Stillearly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Dangleberries Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Stillearly said: I've been on three return flights in the last few months , not seen that .. with a 2m rule the town in front and behind would also need to be clear ? Yeh, thats what I thought. Was wine free flowing and the food hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillearly Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, Derek Dangleberries said: Yeh, thats what I thought. Was wine free flowing and the food hot? Short flights , but booze was served Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Just stay home. No worries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxyhog Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 On aircraft compressed air is bled off the engines and cooled before being fed into the cabin. Most people think banning smoking was to do with safety and it was to a certain extent but the main reason was money. With no smoking on board the air can be recirculated,the less air bled from the engines the less fuel used. The cabin air filters through which the recirculated air passes are HEPA,which stands for High Efficiency Particulate Air....whether or not they will filter Covid I have not a clue. I seem to remember several people caught SARS on an aeroplane a few years ago. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillearly Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/how-clean-is-the-air-on-your-airplane-coronavirus-cvd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWA Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 6 hours ago, john luke said: The sandbox scheme at Phuket may involve a long haul flight and then a second flight on a much smaller plane down to Phuket. My submission is that travel on this second flight significantly increases the risks You're not allowed to change at BKK on your way to the Phuket sandbox, so if you're flying Business Class you'll be in "real" Business all the way with most airlines. Singapore Air is the only one I see with narrowbody B737s, but even they are 2 x 2 seating with a bit more seat pitch. They're not the same as intra Europe Business Class (or US First) where the difference over Economy Class seating is minimal to non-existant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boydeste Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 A lady down the pub just returned from Malta exactly the same thing. She got a phone call telling her she had to isolate as having contact with someone that tested positive on their day 2 test. Apparently if you are double jabbed then you don't have to according to her. She was probably on your flight John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 The chances of course when travelling and mixing within a crowded and poorly ventilated area increase exponentially. As @john luke has been "pinged" this has certain ramifications, if JL tests positive then in the UK it's no big deal for the double jabbed, but in Thailand getting a positive on a PCR while in ASQ opens up a whole new raft of problems. To quote the link provided: "A new study revealed the chances of becoming infected with COVID-19 while wearing a mask and flying on a modern, commercial airline is about the same as being struck by lightning, about one chance in half-a-million." @john luke , consider yourself unlucky!!. There will not be any risk free method of travel, and I would hazard a guess that on an aircraft, while air to air infection might not be high, the risk of touch infection still remains. Best advice would be that gloves are worn throughout the flight, hands and gloves sanitised regularly and you avoid contact with the blanket provided and religiously wipe everything down. Even try to avoid eating, just carb load before you leave and only drink your own bottled water. The air might well be recirculated, but if the person beside you is infected, you are still exposed at a very close distance and effectively breathing some of their air as well. If, for example one of the CC were infected then that pretty much opens up the entire aircraft to infection from either touch or air to air. Would the cabin class make a difference? possibly, but let's consider the 777-300 as an Aircraft for boarding. The entire passenger compliment filter past one area of Business class while boarding (the section behind the forward Business seats). Business Class pax get to board first, therefore there is risk exposure right there. The easy answer to that would be to board as late as possible. Physical measures can include double masking, or a full face shield and mask, or better still as mentioned elsewhere, an N95 or equivalent. Upon arrival at your destination airport, keep gloves and masks on until you are alone in your Hotel, then into the shower to strip off, bag the clothes in to a bin liner, stuff into a wardrobe and forget for a good week or so, bin anything and everything else disposable you have worn. Be sure to sanitise every surface you may have touched upon arrival. Also remember that exposure does not equal infection. It's the viral load and infectious dose that matters. However, on a plane and in an Airport, I imagine it is a somewhat ideal area as any other to find and get a Covid 19 infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampla69 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 My mate's mate was worried about this while travelling ...... so a friend told me he accidentally deleted the NHS Track and Trace app from his phone. My mate's friend said he still tested himself using Lateral Flow Tests. No track and trace no ping and pong ... .. and appy !!! Not the same on long haul and ASQ I appreciate .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john luke Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 I woke up this morning to find that at 0502 hours this morning I had received an e-mail from NHS Covid 19 notifications that the Covid Test on my specimen was negative. It was of course a relief even though at no point did I have any symptoms, nor feel ill, had a negative day 2 Covid 19 test and three lateral flow tests taken since last Monday were also negative. Did the vaccine save me from getting Covid 19? We will never know the answer to that with certainty, however it is quite possible that it did. Just for the record, the timeline of events is as below. 1602 hours 23/09/2021 received first message from NHS Test and Trace advising of contact. (Did not pick it up until later in the evening.) 1702 hours same day requested testing kit from NHS Test and Trace 1430 hours 24/09/2021 Testing Kit delivered by Royal Mail. 1500 hours same day Kit registered on line, test taken and posted back for analysis 2000 hours same day Royal Mail Website showed kit delivered. (They are obviously tested locally) 0502 26/09/21 e-mail from NHS Test and Trace confirming negative test result. I do not think we can fault the system that is in place. The only unknown is where I came into contact with the 'someone who tested positive'; my thoughts are that it must have been another passenger on the plane and picked up from the passenger locater form; other alternatives are waiting in the airport for luggage and passport check (unlikely as I probably spent less than 20 minutes inside the airport) or the 20 minutes or so taxi ride home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 3 hours ago, john luke said: I woke up this morning to find that at 0502 hours this morning I had received an e-mail from NHS Covid 19 notifications that the Covid Test on my specimen was negative. It was of course a relief even though at no point did I have any symptoms, nor feel ill, had a negative day 2 Covid 19 test and three lateral flow tests taken since last Monday were also negative. Did the vaccine save me from getting Covid 19? We will never know the answer to that with certainty, however it is quite possible that it did. Just for the record, the timeline of events is as below. 1602 hours 23/09/2021 received first message from NHS Test and Trace advising of contact. (Did not pick it up until later in the evening.) 1702 hours same day requested testing kit from NHS Test and Trace 1430 hours 24/09/2021 Testing Kit delivered by Royal Mail. 1500 hours same day Kit registered on line, test taken and posted back for analysis 2000 hours same day Royal Mail Website showed kit delivered. (They are obviously tested locally) 0502 26/09/21 e-mail from NHS Test and Trace confirming negative test result. I do not think we can fault the system that is in place. The only unknown is where I came into contact with the 'someone who tested positive'; my thoughts are that it must have been another passenger on the plane and picked up from the passenger locater form; other alternatives are waiting in the airport for luggage and passport check (unlikely as I probably spent less than 20 minutes inside the airport) or the 20 minutes or so taxi ride home. Good timeline of events and yes, the system works exceptionally well. For all the criticism it receives from the media, it is a robust and reliable system which is well managed and accurate. It is very probable that your vaccination in conjunction with a low infectious dose saved you from getting infected which is great news. The kid my daughter sits next to at school tested positive on Friday, we all did an LFT last night and tested negative. This time last year anyone who had remotely come into contact with a Covid positive individual seemed to be getting a positive result back, so it also shows that the whole vaccination programme continues to be a success ( personal opinion ). My question to you now @john luke would be "Has this incident had any bearing upon your future travel plans to Thailand?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john luke Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 27 minutes ago, Butch said: Good timeline of events and yes, the system works exceptionally well. For all the criticism it receives from the media, it is a robust and reliable system which is well managed and accurate. It is very probable that your vaccination in conjunction with a low infectious dose saved you from getting infected which is great news. The kid my daughter sits next to at school tested positive on Friday, we all did an LFT last night and tested negative. This time last year anyone who had remotely come into contact with a Covid positive individual seemed to be getting a positive result back, so it also shows that the whole vaccination programme continues to be a success ( personal opinion ). My question to you now @john luke would be "Has this incident had any bearing upon your future travel plans to Thailand?" Simple answer to the question —. No 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampla69 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Well said JL ....sorry about the Leeds result yesterday 🤣😅 ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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