The Derek Chauvin George Floyd Murder Trial.

[Evil Penevil]

For every cop like Derek Chauvin, there are 1,000 like Alyssa Vogel.  The shooter was still on the loose when Vogel put a tourniquet on a 4-year-old Hispanic girl's leg and rushed her to an ambulance.  The girl, Skye Martinez, underwent surgery and is expected to make a full recovery.

Below is  Farrakhan Muhammad, an illegal vendor and the suspect in the shooting of the three people  He was identified by his brother, the target of the shots, but hasn't yet been caught.

 The two adult women and the little girl who were shot had nothing to do with the original argument and did not know each other. They were merely standing nearby.

When Farrakhan Muhammad is apprehended, the corrections officers at Rikers Island will have to take major steps to keep him alive.  I don't think he will be very popular with the Latin Kings.

Evil

[nampla69]

14 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I  reject Critical Race Theory and Robyn di Angelo's corollary of "white fragility."  It's nonsense and an intellectual fraud.   Whenever the occasion arises, I will oppose CRT and di Angelo's ideas as best I can.

Evil

You are far far too polite.

Critical Race Theory is Marxist claptrap derived from Michel Foucault a French so called philosopher. His hobbies included when he was not writing nonsense was indulging in the most extreme form of sado-masochistic sex in the gay bathhouses of San Francisco. Charming chap.

Whereas as Robyn di Angelo is a sour faced equally woke Marxist type who has written one of the worst books in human history. Apart from that ..... 'white fragility' is a crock of unthinking pseudo intellectual horse shit. Apologies to horses.

[forqalso]

Unfortunately, for every cop like Derek Chauvin there are three other cops willing to stand there while one of their own commits murder. Good for this cop for saving the life of a child.  What would she have done at the scene of George Floyd’s murder?  Either nothing, like all the other cops on the scene or she would have done something to stop the murder. Then, she probably would have been fired, like what happened in the case.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/buffalo-officer-reinstated-trnd/index.html

She lost her job, pension and most importantly, her reputation when she stopped another officer that was choking a suspect. After fighting fifteen years, she will receive her pension. 
 

It’s not that there aren’t good cops. Maybe 99% of them are good 99% of the time.  Until it’s common for a cop outside of whatever conflict is occurring to be able to step in and stop something like this as it is happening, without fear of loss of job, reputation or life, then there will be more “George Floyds,” more protests and more huge settlements that we all end up paying.

[Kathmandu]

14 hours ago, roobob said:

You do not get it. They did put the 6'7" man into the back of of a police car ..but he removed himself so was resisting arrest. Why did he not just sit there ..go to the station....call his lawyer. ?? It really is not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Why did the city officials pay out $27million even before the case was heard/concluded? Going on that they are inept...they should all be removed from office. Well that is another story.

cheers

 

He's not 6'7", unless he grew 3" after his death. lol. Why don't you review the autopsy report before you start popping off.

[roobob]

33 minutes ago, forqalso said:

Unfortunately, for every cop like Derek Chauvin there are three other cops willing to stand there while one of their own commits murder. Good for this cop for saving the life of a child.  What would she have done at the scene of George Floyd’s murder?  Either nothing, like all the other cops on the scene or she would have done something to stop the murder. Then, she probably would have been fired, like what happened in the case.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/buffalo-officer-reinstated-trnd/index.html

She lost her job, pension and most importantly, her reputation when she stopped another officer that was choking a suspect. After fighting fifteen years, she will receive her pension. 
 

It’s not that there aren’t good cops. Maybe 99% of them are good 99% of the time.  Until it’s common for a cop outside of whatever conflict is occurring to be able to step in and stop something like this as it is happening, without fear of loss of job, reputation or life, then there will be more “George Floyds,” more protests and more huge settlements that we all end up paying.

Maybe if the "George Floyds" of the world stopped committing crimes then there would not be a problem. 

I take it your next kneel will be at a rally to defund the Police.

cheers

 

Just now, Kathmandu said:

He's not 6'7", unless he grew 3" after his death. lol. Why don't you review the autopsy report before you start popping off.

Have a read again Einstein ...I was quoting from your fellow sad sack description.

cheers

[roobob]

20 hours ago, forqalso said:

You really don’t get it.  Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd’s neck for three and a half minutes after he stopped breathing, while he was handcuffed. No one is saying the cops shouldn’t do their jobs, if they can’t put a 6’7” (182cm) man in the small back seat area of their car, there is another option besides killing him in the streets.  Bring in a van. It’s cheaper the the $27,000,000 settlement the city has to pay and the cops don’t end up in prison. It’s really not that difficult of a concept to grasp. The police should do their jobs, but that doesn’t include murdering people in my name.  Not applauding a murder doesn’t make me anti-cop.

 

 

@Kathmandu... there you go kneeler.... sorry to pop your bubble....lol

cheers

[Nightcrawler]

What height George Floyd is fairly irrelevant. He was a big guy but  showed no aggression toward the arresting officers and at no point were they in danger. He was also unarmed and no danger to the public. 

Roobob, I am not sure what you mean by " the George Floyds of this world"? 

George Floyd was arrested for suspicion of passing forged banknotes for which he was never charged or sentenced

Not everyone who is stopped or arrested by Police are guilty. Not everyone arrested or detained by Police deserve to die because of it. 

 

[forqalso]

9 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

What height George Floyd is irrelevant. He showed no aggression toward the arresting officers and at no point were they in danger. He was also unarmed 

Roobob, I am not sure what you mean by " the George Floyd's of this, world"? 

George Floyd was arrested for suspicion of passing forged banknotes for which he was never charged or sentenced

Not everyone who is stopped or arrested by Police are guilty. Not everyone arrested or detained by Police deserve to die because of it. 

 

The only reason his height matters is that the back seats of police cars are limited in size because they put wall floor to ceiling to protect the driver and to contain anything that may have been missed during a body search. 

[Mr. Smooth]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:46 PM, fygjam said:

As Furillo said to J.D. LaRue on Hill Street Blues, "we catch 'em but we don't cook 'em".

 

 

 

On 5/8/2021 at 11:51 PM, john luke said:

And be careful out there.

My all time favorite cop show. Great writing, acting, story telling. A classic!

[Evil Penevil]

4 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

George Floyd was arrested for suspicion of passing forged banknotes for which he was never charged or sentenced

That's not strictly correct.  Police were summoned to Cup Foods to investigate the 911 call that GF had used a fake $20 to buy cigarettes.  He was placed in handcuffs two minutes after Officer Lane made first contact with him because GF refused to obey orders to keep his hands visible, keep his hands on the steering wheel and to get out of the car.  At that point, he was being detained for officer safety, he wasn't under arrest.  

Police never had the opportunity to question him about the $20 bill.  Because of Floyd's highly erratic behavior,  police suspected he was on drugs.  When asked why he was foaming at the mouth, GF replied he had been "hooping" earlier.  "Hooping" is a slang term for inserting drugs in the anus.  It's a method used by substance abusers who don't want to leave track marks on their bodies from injections.  GF's admission about hooping gave police the reasonable suspicion they needed to detain him further.  At that point, the cops were probably thinking he had drugs concealed in the car or on his person, rather than worrying about the $20 bill.

Evil

Edited May 10, 2021 by Evil Penevil

[Nightcrawler]

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

That's not strictly correct.  Police were summoned to Cup Foods to investigate the 911 call that GF had used a fake $20 to buy cigarettes.  He was placed in handcuffs two minutes after Officer Lane made first contact with him because GF refused to obey orders to keep his hands visible, keep his hands on the steering wheel and to get out of the car.  At that point, he was being detained for officer safety, he wasn't under arrest.  

Police never had the opportunity to question him about the $20 bill.  Because of Floyd's highly erratic behavior,  police suspected he was on drugs.  When asked why he was foaming at the mouth, GF replied he had been "hooping" earlier.  "Hooping" is a slang term for inserting drugs in the anus.  It's a method used by substance abusers who don't want to leave track marks on their bodies from injections.  GF's admission about hooping gave police the reasonable suspicion they needed to detain him further.  At that point, the cops were probably thinking he had drugs concealed in the car or on his person, rather than worrying about the $20 bill.

Evil

It's clear that some of us judge this incident different ways from slightly different angles

Lots of"suspicion"going on, and  possibilities/probabilities. No drugs were found on GF and 2 pills were found in his car . I don't think they were illegal narcotics or whether they were found at the time of arrest. 9No evidence of him being a drug dealer either. But again, I would question why, if they thought he may have been high or carrying drugs, that it was still necessary to pin him down by the neck for 9 minutes?

There is no doubt that the majority of law enforcement officers do a professional job, but there will always be a few who go beyond their duty. Those who do should be held accountable. 

Perhaps it may helped if Chauvin had agreed to take the stand and explain what was going through his mind and why he felt that his actions were justified. 

The remaining 3 Officers await trial and it will be interesting to hear their account of what happened if any of them take the stand for cross examination

Floyd was obviously no angel but I still cannot see that the restraint put upon him justified the offence that he was being arrested for. 

I suspect that if it hasn't happened already, that the practice of kneeling on a suspect's neck as a form of constraint will be outlawed by Police depts  across the US

[fygjam]

6 hours ago, roobob said:

Maybe if the "George Floyds" of the world stopped committing crimes then there would not be a problem.

Above, the simplistic solution of a simpleton.

"In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."

Maybe if some of the police of the world stopped committing murder then there would not be a problem.

 

 

[Kathmandu]

6 hours ago, roobob said:

Maybe if the "George Floyds" of the world stopped committing crimes then there would not be a problem. 

I take it your next kneel will be at a rally to defund the Police.

cheers

 

Have a read again Einstein ...I was quoting from your fellow sad sack description.

cheers

Mr. Smooth was the first to report 6-7. It was an over reach and a weak attempt to bolster a weak argument. As his parrot you fell right in line. You are being a troll.

Read the autopsy report. He was a big guy at 6-4. The issue is why the need you constantly twist the facts?. It is a pattern of deception and exaggeration with you and Smooth. Of course, you're not smart enough to know the diff, but Smooth is which I find particularly putrid. I'll need to book your posts. Sorry.

[Kathmandu]

7 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

What height George Floyd is fairly irrelevant. He was a big guy but  showed no aggression

 

Of course not, my point was that it represents a pattern of lies, exaggeration, misrepresentations and a lack of critical thinking skills. 

[Kathmandu]

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

That's not strictly correct.  Police were summoned to Cup Foods to investigate the 911 call that GF had used a fake $20 to buy cigarettes.  He was placed in handcuffs two minutes after Officer Lane made first contact with him because GF refused to obey orders to keep his hands visible, keep his hands on the steering wheel and to get out of the car.  At that point, he was being detained for officer safety, he wasn't under arrest.  

Police never had the opportunity to question him about the $20 bill.  Because of Floyd's highly erratic behavior,  police suspected he was on drugs.  When asked why he was foaming at the mouth, GF replied he had been "hooping" earlier.  "Hooping" is a slang term for inserting drugs in the anus.  It's a method used by substance abusers who don't want to leave track marks on their bodies from injections.  GF's admission about hooping gave police the reasonable suspicion they needed to detain him further.  At that point, the cops were probably thinking he had drugs concealed in the car or on his person, rather than worrying about the $20 bill.

Evil

What happened to your long hair pulled over by the cops post? Thought I might find it here. Perhaps elsewhere? 

[forcebwithu]

45 minutes ago, Kathmandu said:

What happened to your long hair pulled over by the cops post? Thought I might find it here. Perhaps elsewhere? 

It's still here.

 

[roobob]

8 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

What height George Floyd is fairly irrelevant. He was a big guy but  showed no aggression toward the arresting officers and at no point were they in danger. He was also unarmed and no danger to the public. 

Roobob, I am not sure what you mean by " the George Floyds of this world"? 

George Floyd was arrested for suspicion of passing forged banknotes for which he was never charged or sentenced

Not everyone who is stopped or arrested by Police are guilty. Not everyone arrested or detained by Police deserve to die because of it. 

 

BM forqalso brought the height of the man into the discussion.....why not ask him.

What I mean is if people like George Floyd did not commit crimes then there would not be  problems.

Agree that not everyone who is stopped or arrested by Police are guilty.... and the people who co operate when stopped by Police are usually on their way after being so.

People when first arrested are on suspicion at that point and taken to the station to be charged or released/detained.  When stopped by Police...if you do not co operate it can lead to your arrest..... if you then resist arrest it can lead to physical confrontation.

Floyd was arrested and put into the back of a Police car. He then resisted arrest by trying to remove himself which led to his death. It is his actions that led to what happened. All he had to do was sit in the car...go to the station...call his lawyer.... and he would have been ok.

cheers

Edited May 11, 2021 by roobob

[Kathmandu]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

BM forqalso brought the height of the man into the discussion.....why not ask him.

 

Nope BM Smooth. All a pattern of your exaggeration, lies and twisting of the facts. You are a troll, you will always be a troll, like the troll you were on the hate forum. 

[Kathmandu]

2 hours ago, roobob said:

BM forqalso brought the height of the man into the discussion.....why not ask him.

What I mean is if people like George Floyd did not commit crimes then there would not be  problems.

Agree that not everyone who is stopped or arrested by Police are guilty.... and the people who co operate when stopped by Police are usually on their way after being so.

People when first arrested are on suspicion at that point and taken to the station to be charged or released/detained.  When stopped by Police...if you do not co operate it can lead to your arrest..... if you then resist arrest it can lead to physical confrontation.

Floyd was arrested and put into the back of a Police car. He then resisted arrest by trying to remove himself which led to his death. It is his actions that led to what happened. All he had to do was sit in the car...go to the station...call his lawyer.... and he would have been ok.

cheers

I'll bet the bicycle repair business is booming in Thailand. Bwwwaaahahahaha.

[Mr. Smooth]

16 hours ago, Kathmandu said:

Mr. Smooth was the first to report 6-7. It was an over reach and a weak attempt to bolster a weak argument. As his parrot you fell right in line. You are being a troll.

Read the autopsy report. He was a big guy at 6-4. The issue is why the need you constantly twist the facts?. It is a pattern of deception and exaggeration with you and Smooth. Of course, you're not smart enough to know the diff, but Smooth is which I find particularly putrid. I'll need to book your posts. Sorry.

Listen here Kat, what facts are being twisted? If a post of mine revealed Floyd was 6'7" instead of 6"4", it was because that was the height reported in the news article I read bout him. So...the MEDIA got that point wrong about Floyd.

But I guess with a guy like you, size DOES matter, eh?

Anytime you want to measure your intellect with mine, especially given the very low quality of content of your posts in these political threads, you let me know. The adolescent crap you post, and you're what, mid 40's at least, right? Maybe older than that? I sometimes have to shake my head thinking I'm reading something written by a 13 year old snot nose high school freshman when glazing over your chicken scratch.

As a far left progressive, you, of all people, should know all about deception and exaggeration and lies, regarding what you believe. So much of what you think, when you think, just isn't true. I simply point out your fallacies.

As does roobob. 

Floyd didn't deserve the fate that happened to him and the cop was found guilty and will soon be sentenced. But as I pointed out earlier, his trial wasn't a fair one and should be granted a new one based upon his lawyer's appeal. I think he will be found guilty a second time, based upon the evidence, but hopefully a new trial, perhaps in a different city and/or state, would be without the circus-like atmosphere with political and social (and MEDIA) pressures that was present in the Minneapolis trial.

We should know something later this year.

[Evil Penevil]

19 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

It's clear that some of us judge this incident different ways from slightly different angles

For me, the most important factor in deciding if an officer used an appropriate amount of force is the level of non-compliance he encountered, especially when telling a POS to keep his hands visible. That's the ultimate issue regarding officer safety.  When the officer tells a POS to put his hands on the steering wheel, on his head or behind his back, the POS should obey instantly.  If he or she doesn't, they are inviting a more forceful response by the officer.

19 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

Floyd was obviously no angel but I still cannot see that the restraint put upon him justified the offence that he was being arrested for. 

It's the level of non-compliance, not the seriousness of the offense under investigation, that determines the officer's response.  Many suspected serial killers and mass murderers have been taken into custody without violence because they offered no resistance.

Take a look at these clips:

This is why it's so important for the officer to be able to see the POS hands. In the next video, the officer approached what he thought was a disabled vehicle.  He had his flashlight in one hand and his other hand wasn't on his holster.  The driver, Qavon Webb, a wanted felon, jumped from the vehicle and shot six times without warning.  When he ran out of bullets, he attacked the officer on the ground. 

Can someone tell me what the officers did to deserve getting shot?

Evil

[lazarus]

When I was a kid in the 1960s my Dad owned a LE uniform store. Often LEOs carried three guns: a service revolver; a smaller gun tucked into a Sam Brown belt; and an ankle gun. It was widely known that many LEOs were killed with their own guns, so carrying more than one made sense.

My point is...LEOs are prepared for the worst at all times. It is a dangerous job. Yet, once a POS (as Evil calls 'em) is in restraints that danger is significantly lower. George Floyd was in restraints when Chauvin murdered him.

 

 

 

[Evil Penevil]

In the video below, the officer stopped a car for a routine traffic offense, but soon noticed the uncooperative driver had a gun in his pocket.  The driver ignored the officer's order to put his hands up.  Even after Jason Hoops was shot, he refused to drop the gun.  He was a convicted felon on probation and possession of a firearm would have sent him back to prison.  He had told friends he wasn't going back to prison and would resist violently.  I can see no difference in the way the officer treated a white suspect compared to how white officers treat Black suspects.

The next video is long with a lot of background, but it illustrates how far officers go in their attempts to diffuse the situation and avoid violence.  Again, the guy who got shot was a felon with warrants for his arrest. You can also see him mouthing the words, "shoot me," to the officer.  He had used his government stimulus check to buy an illegal gun.

Evil

[Nightcrawler]

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

For me, the most important factor in deciding if an officer used an appropriate amount of force is the level of non-compliance he encountered, especially when telling a POS to keep his hands visible. That's the ultimate issue regarding officer safety.  When the officer tells a POS to put his hands on the steering wheel, on his head or behind his back, the POS should obey instantly.  If he or she doesn't, they are inviting a more forceful response by the officer.

It's the level of non-compliance, not the seriousness of the offense under investigation, that determines the officer's response.  Many suspected serial killers and mass murderers have been taken into custody without violence because they offered no resistance.

Take a look at these clips:

This is why it's so important for the officer to be able to see the POS hands. In the next video, the officer approached what he thought was a disabled vehicle.  He had his flashlight in one hand and his other hand wasn't on his holster.  The driver, Qavon Webb, a wanted felon, jumped from the vehicle and shot six times without warning.  When he ran out of bullets, he attacked the officer on the ground. 

Can someone tell me what the officers did to deserve getting shot?

Evil

I understand your argument but the 2 videos are not related to the GF/DC case and two wrongs never make a right. 

After initial non compliance, Floyd was brought to the ground and cuffed. I know that I keep repeating it but it is crucial to the case. The 4 officers were in NO danger from that point if indeed they were ever in danger.  GF was not armed. We will have to agree to disagree on this. 

Yes, law enforcement can be a dangerous job and there are going to be times when terrible things happen as in those videos. But that IMO does not justify what happened in Floyd's case. Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's throat for another 3 minutes after Floyd stopped breathing

That said, I am not an American and have no real experience of US policing. Things are rather different in UK, I guess partly because we don't share the same gun culture. Nonetheless, there have been a number of cases where suspects have died under arrest and they are always investigated one would hope

 

 

[lazarus]

More guns off the street in San Francisco.

It makes much more sense for police to look for potentially violent offenders than it does for petty crimes.