The Derek Chauvin George Floyd Murder Trial.

[Evil Penevil]

6 hours ago, Horizondave said:

don't pop in here much but saw this the other day, maybe just a video to inform certain people how to behave when stopped by the police. Chris Rock is the provider of the tips and this was produced many years ago, I think 2007.

Very sound advice in that video.  The concept goes back a long time.  I can remember a slide show during my high school driver's' education class in 1965 on how to deal with police stops.  The teacher told us he was going to reveal the three most important rules for staying safe during a police stop.  The slide read:

1. No sudden movements.
2. No sudden movements.
3. No sudden movements.

He emphasized the importance of "remaining motionless" with your hands in the 10-2 position on the steering wheel. The teacher said not to move unless asked to by the cop and not to speak unless asked a question.  Pleading innocence, much, much less getting  angry, served no purpose, he added.

"Save your words for a judge in a courtroom," he told us.  "That's the place to claim the cop was wrong and you weren't speeding or driving carelessly.  The driver's seat in a stopped car at the side of a road is the WRONG place."

About five years later I learned an enhancement to that advice and follow it to this day.  I was working part-time as a car hiker for an auto transport company while attending university.  I don't think car hiking exists as a job category any longer, but back then it meant you drove other people's cars long distances, like coast-to-coast.

The cars I drove were generally expensive ones in at least one direction.  Because I was young and had long hair at that time, the cops often pulled me over because they suspected I'd stolen the car. The transport company had provided me with a clear plastic folder in which I kept my driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, transport contract, a noterized copy of my background check by the company,  emergency numbers to the company, etc.  The folder was to be clipped to the driver's side sun visor whenever the car was in motion.  That way I didn't have to reach down or root in the glove compartment when the cop asked for my license and documents. He could clearly see me reaching up with one hand.

I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Very smart, son," or similar words from cops during my car-hiking years. It's been five years since I was last pulled over by a cop and he said the same, except it was "sir" instead of "son.":

Evil

Edited May 8, 2021 by Evil Penevil

[Evil Penevil]

In contrast to the Chris Rock video, here's how not to act during a police stop.

She's actually not a professor, but she was formerly a part-time instructor at a community college.

Evil

[Golfingboy]

@Evil Penevil Yup, I forget exactly where and when I heard it.....shoot, I think it might have been a Fresh Prince episode where they get lost in a redneck town and Will tells Carlton “put your hands on the wheel”. But ever since I got my license in 1994, whenever I’ve been pulled over , I’ve always kept my hands on the wheel or in plain sight. Why give the officer another reason to be agitated, especially if you can already tell he’s had a bad day, or thinks the badge makes him God? 
 

Very simple advice to make a traffic stop go smoothly

Edited May 8, 2021 by Golfingboy

[Kathmandu]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:19 AM, john luke said:

I actually have a degree of sympathy for Derek Chauvin.  I do not know the man, nor do I know anyone that does.  It strikes me that he was a 'Street Cop'.  He strikes me as not the type who would secure promotion or make it in a specialist department but the type of 'cop' who on a daily basis was prepared to deal with the dregs of society on a daily basis.  

It is my opinion that every police force needs officers like that.  Wiser officers will pick and chose the jobs they deal with and on occasions stand back and let another officer get there first.  Mr Chauvin probably did not do that.  

His employers saw fit to abandon him and throw him to the wolves; they dismissed him, rather than suspended him from duty and even provided expert witnesses to testify that what he did was not in compliance with the rules.  They made public the settlement at the time of jury selection which on balance of probability was more likely than not to have an effect on the decision making processes of the jurors.  For their trouble they now have a high level enquiry into the way the Force operates.  The likely outcomes of the enquiry are in my view unlikely to promote the detection of crime and offenders being brought to justice.  

In UK for many years we have had police powers of stop and search which members of certain communities claimed was disproportionately applied to them.  Numerous reports and commissions about stop and search; the outcome was that many officers who were anxious to progress their career development took the easy way out and avoided using the power.  Criminals avoided justice and officers avoided getting complaints.  Was that in the best interests of the community; I would suggest not.

Derek Chauvin was without doubt not the perfect cop; I would however suggest that he was the 'cop' that most would want when they were the victim of crime.  I would go on to suggest that a significant amount of low level crime in USA will not be addressed, if committed to members of BAME community who fail to submit to arrest procedures and dare I say it, struggle, fight back or run away or even are percieved likely to do so. 

Every force needs and should support street 'cops'.

I foresee not a good period ahead for policing in the USA.

How is it looking for your "golden boy" now. Do we need more Chauvin's or fewer?

[roobob]

3 hours ago, Kathmandu said:

How is it looking for your "golden boy" now. Do we need more Chauvin's or fewer?

I am sure whatever happens.... the ones who think Chauvin did not get a fair hearing will not take to their knees like the Woke crowd that regard Floyd as the second coming of the Messiah.

How are the knees holding up???  Are they still ok after all the show pony carrying on over Floyd??

cheers

Edited May 9, 2021 by roobob

[forqalso]

2 minutes ago, roobob said:

I am sure whatever happens.... the ones who think Chauvin did not get a fair hearing will not take to their knees like the Woke crowd that regard Floyd as the second Messiah.

How are the knees holding up???  Are they still ok after all the show pony carrying on over Floyd??

cheers

Because if you’re against the use of summary execution, you have to think the victim of such is Jesus Christ.  Wow.
Even 2,000 years ago the Romans knew people deserved a trial before their execution, so it’s really not the best comparison.  

[roobob]

2 hours ago, forqalso said:

Because if you’re against the use of summary execution, you have to think the victim of such is Jesus Christ.  Wow.
Even 2,000 years ago the Romans knew people deserved a trial before their execution, so it’s really not the best comparison.  

If your knees get sore...I believe you can get some knee pads to help you out.

What a sad reflection you are...worshipping a habitual criminal with numerous convictions...... including one where he threatened a pregnant lady and her unborn child.

When is your next BLM meeting??

cheers.

[galenkia]

7 minutes ago, roobob said:

If your knees get sore...I believe you can get some knee pads to help you out.

What a sad reflection you are...worshipping a habitual criminal with numerous convictions...... including one where he threatened a pregnant lady and her unborn child.

When is your next BLM meeting??

cheers.

I don't think anyone is defending Floyd as some sort of upstanding citizen, just saying that cop's are not judge, jury and executioner. And this one has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. 

So needs to learn you have no right to think you are above the law just because you carry a badge. 

[roobob]

11 minutes ago, galenkia said:

I don't think anyone is defending Floyd as some sort of upstanding citizen, just saying that cop's are not judge, jury and executioner. And this one has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. 

So needs to learn you have no right to think you are above the law just because you carry a badge. 

Understand what you are saying Gal.... but some of the posts here about Floyd you would think he is a reincarnation of Simon Templar...555

cheers

[forqalso]

31 minutes ago, roobob said:

If your knees get sore...I believe you can get some knee pads to help you out.

What a sad reflection you are...worshipping a habitual criminal with numerous convictions...... including one where he threatened a pregnant lady and her unborn child.

When is your next BLM meeting??

cheers.

Which habitual criminal are you talking about, Floyd or Chauvin?  https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/831934-chauvin-three-other-officers-face-new-charges-for-floyd-death
 It seems your hero, the murderer, couldn’t control a 14 year old boy without nearly choking him to death too.  Weak minded men like you often make odd choices for their hero worship.  

[lazarus]

13 minutes ago, forqalso said:

Which habitual criminal are you talking about, Floyd or Chauvin?  https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/831934-chauvin-three-other-officers-face-new-charges-for-floyd-death
 It seems your hero, the murderer, couldn’t control a 14 year old boy without nearly choking him to death too.  Weak minded men like you often make odd choices for their hero worship.  

don't feed the trolls. they just keep coming back for more.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by lazarus

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, galenkia said:

I don't think anyone is defending Floyd as some sort of upstanding citizen, just saying that cop's are not judge, jury and executioner. And this one has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. 

So needs to learn you have no right to think you are above the law just because you carry a badge. 

As Furillo said to J.D. LaRue on Hill Street Blues, "we catch 'em but we don't cook 'em".

 

 

[john luke]

4 minutes ago, fygjam said:

As Furillo said to J.D. LaRue on Hill Street Blues, "we catch 'em but we don't cook 'em".

 

 

And be careful out there.

[fygjam]

6 minutes ago, john luke said:

And be careful out there.

 

[Evil Penevil]

21 hours ago, forqalso said:

Do the crimes of use or producing a counterfeit bill carry the death sentence without trial?  

No, but you knew that already.

21 hours ago, forqalso said:

Use of a counterfeit bill carries no penalty if there was no intent to commit fraud.  GF could have received it somewhere down the line and had no idea it was fake,  but we’ll probably never know.  

Minneapolis police didn't go to Cup Foods to punish GF for passing a counterfeit bill; they went to investigate the use of what was possibly a fake $20 bill. The statutory penalty for using counterfeit money was irrelevant at that point. The cops didn't get very far with their investigation because GF freaked out as soon as they arrived.

22 hours ago, forqalso said:

It doesn’t matter what Hall was up to, having him for a friend might be a violation of probation or parole and maybe it could put one back in jail for VOP; but again, not a crime that carries the death penalty without trial.

His crying, shouting, begging not to be shot, failure to comply, etc., may have been a result of mental illness combined with substance abuse.  The drugs he had in his system can cause some heavy-duty delusions. Early on GF tells Officer Lane that he (GF) had been shot in the past by cops.  There's no evidence GF had ever in any city suffered a gunshot wound, whether the gun was fired by police or others.

That lie could have been GF's paranoia talking, but it also could have been a deliberate act to divert attention from the fake bills and  drugs in the car.  GF could have been hoping to give Morries Hall and Shawanda Hill  the opportunity to dump or hide the illegal stuff while cops struggled with him.  It's common tactic.  GF behaved in a similar fashion when arrested during a 2019 traffic stop.

I've written about the $20 bill in an earlier post.  I've quoted that post at the end of this post.

22 hours ago, forqalso said:

If Hall’s refusal to testify means something to you, what does Chauvin’s refusal to testify say?

It tells me the situations for Chauvin and Hall are very different.  Chauvin's failure to testify in his own behalf should not be taken as a indication of guilt or innocence.  Hall would have been subpoenaed to testify at Chauvin's trial.  Hall's lawyer said that any testimony Hall gave could be used against him in charges Hall was facing in other cases. Hall was exercising his right not to incriminate himself, his lawyer successfully argued.

Evil

On 4/6/2021 at 3:01 PM, Evil Penevil said:

It's really, really important to check original sources regarding the George Floyd case.  The Internet is swimming in deliberate disinformation.

There's no question that George Floyd attempted to use a counterfeit bill at the convenience store.  The big unanswered question for me is, "Where did he get the counterfeit bills?"  I haven't seen any news coverage that addressed that point.

  This is a photo from the inside of the car where GF had been sitting.

You can read a summary of the trial testimony by the cashier who accepted the bill here:  Cashier Says He Offered To Pay After Realizing Floyd's $20 Bill Was Fake

An excerpt from the article:

"Before the police were called, Martin and his co-workers made two trips to the SUV that Floyd was sitting in outside Cup Foods, trying to get him to come back to the store, Martin said. He recalled telling Floyd and his friends that the bill Floyd had just used was fake, and that his boss wanted to talk to him.

But Floyd and the other occupants, a man and a woman, refused to return to the store, he added. After the first attempt, Martin went back to his manager.

'I'd offered to pay, but he said no, just tell them to come back inside,' Martin told the jury.

After Floyd and his friends again refused to return to the store, Martin testified, his manager told another co-worker to call the police."

EP note:  If George Floyd had gone back inside the store, he'd probably be alive today.

YouTube video of the testimony:

And a lengthier version that includes the lead-up to GF's purchase of the cigarettes:

This is a link to the transcript of the 911 call from the store about the counterfeit bill.  There are other documents relating to the case on this page:

May 25, 2020 officer-involved death

Two articles from 2020 that mention the counterfeit bill:

Counterfeit $20 bill now part of George Floyd murder case

'All from a counterfeit bill': What we know about fake currency and George Floyd's death

...

Evil

x

 

[forqalso]

5 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

No, but you knew that already.

Minneapolis police didn't go to Cup Foods to punish GF for passing a counterfeit bill; they went to investigate the use of what was possibly a fake $20 bill. The statutory penalty for using counterfeit money was irrelevant at that point. The cops didn't get very far with their investigation because GF freaked out as soon as they arrived.

His crying, shouting, begging not to be shot, failure to comply, etc., may have been a result of mental illness combined with substance abuse.  The drugs he had in his system can cause some heavy-duty delusions. Early on GF tells Officer Lane that he (GF) had been shot in the past by cops.  There's no evidence GF had ever in any city suffered a gunshot wound, whether the gun was fired by police or others.

That lie could have been GF's paranoia talking, but it also could have been a deliberate act to divert attention from the fake bills and  drugs in the car.  GF could have been hoping to give Morries Hall and Shawanda Hill  the opportunity to dump or hide the illegal stuff while cops struggled with him.  It's common tactic.  GF behaved in a similar fashion when arrested during a 2019 traffic stop.

I've written about the $20 bill in an earlier post.  I've quoted that post at the end of this post.

It tells me the situations for Chauvin and Hall are very different.  Chauvin's failure to testify in his own behalf should not be taken as a indication of guilt or innocence.  Hall would have been subpoenaed to testify at Chauvin's trial.  Hall's lawyer said that any testimony Hall gave could be used against him in charges Hall was facing in other cases. Hall was exercising his right not to incriminate himself, his lawyer successfully argued.

Evil

x

 

The medical testimony said Chauvin continued his action for almost three and a half minutes after his victim stopped breathing.  Was it the lie about being shot, his companions with criminal records or the fake twenty that necessitated that the murder continue?

[fygjam]

20 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

they went to investigate the use of what was possibly a fake $20 bill.

The cops didn't get very far with their investigation because GF freaked out as soon as they arrived.

Perhaps GF freaked out (as you put it) because the cops (at least one) already had their/his firearm out and was screaming things like "show us your fucking hands" , "put your fucking hands on top of the steering wheel".

Is this police SOP for investigating the possible use of a fake $20 bill?

 

[roobob]

2 hours ago, forqalso said:

The medical testimony said Chauvin continued his action for almost three and a half minutes after his victim stopped breathing.  Was it the lie about being shot, his companions with criminal records or the fake twenty that necessitated that the murder continue?

 

2 hours ago, fygjam said:

Perhaps GF freaked out (as you put it) because the cops (at least one) already had their/his firearm out and was screaming things like "show us your fucking hands" , "put your fucking hands on top of the steering wheel".

Is this police SOP for investigating the possible use of a fake $20 bill?

 

Maybe Floyd should have been responsible for his own actions like all of us.

He was arrested.... he was put into the back of a Police car which going by his record he was not unfamiliar with.

He then decided to resist arrest and remove himself from the police vehicle.

All the Police were doing was answering a call from a business of the general public. Chauvin was one of the Police Officers near...he did not know who was involved.

It seems some of the kneelers here think once Chauvin got there ....seeing knew who the fellow was... he should have just got back in the Police car and drove away...555. 

I am sure that the likes of @Kathmandu.... @lazarus.... @Painter..... @fygjam..... @forqalso..... etc... that if they had a home invasion and the first Police Officer on the scene was Chauvin that they would have turned him away as they knelt with the home invaders ..or would they say.. ...do your job as we need protection against these criminals..

cheers

Edited May 9, 2021 by roobob

[Evil Penevil]

 

3 hours ago, fygjam said:

Perhaps GF freaked out (as you put it) because the cops (at least one) already had their/his firearm out and was screaming things like "show us your fucking hands" , "put your fucking hands on top of the steering wheel".

You are mistaken.  Officer Lane approached the driver's side of the car without his firearm drawn and even without his hand on the holster. You can see his right hand in the reflection in the car window in the screenshots below:

He tapped on the window with his flashlight and that's when GF began to reach for something with his right hand.  Officer Lane gave him repeated orders not to reach for anything and to keep his hands on the steering wheel, but GF refused to comply. Only when GF reached under the seat did Lane draw his gun.  Once GF complied, he holstered it again. You can see the sequence clearly in the video snip below.

 

3 hours ago, fygjam said:

Is this police SOP for investigating the possible use of a fake $20 bill?

No, but it is routine procedure for dealing with suspects who refuse to comply with police orders to keep their hands visible.  It's an officer safety issue. I can't see how this could be controversial in any way.  Officer Lane didn't have a chance to say anything before GF started squirming and reaching.  GF's whole demeanor in response to a tap on the window was certainly suspicious.  The seriousness of the offense doesn't determine the officer's response; it's the suspect's level of compliance and a lack of resistance that decides whether an arrest goes down peacefully or not.

3 hours ago, forqalso said:

The medical testimony said Chauvin continued his action for almost three and a half minutes after his victim stopped breathing.  Was it the lie about being shot, his companions with criminal records or the fake twenty that necessitated that the murder continue?

No, it was GF's resistance  while in handcuffs that led Chauvin to kneel on Floyd's neck.  It was wrong of him to continue to kneel for as long as he did. It was a violation of MPD rules and a mistake that will cost Chauvin 20 years in jail.

Evil

Edited May 9, 2021 by Evil Penevil

[lazarus]

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

No, it was GF's resistance  while in handcuffs that led Chauvin to kneel on Floyd's neck.  It was wrong of him to continue to kneel for as long as he did. It was a violation of MPD rules and a mistake that will cost Chauvin 20 years in jail.

Chauvin is a killer cop. It was not a "mistake." There are no excuses.

That's why he is guilty and going to jail.

[forqalso]

2 hours ago, roobob said:

 

Maybe Floyd should have been responsible for his own actions like all of us.

He was arrested.... he was put into the back of a Police car which going by his record he was not unfamiliar with.

He then decided to resist arrest and remove himself from the police vehicle.

All the Police were doing was answering a call from a business of the general public. Chauvin was one of the Police Officers near...he did not know who was involved.

It seems some of the kneelers here think once Chauvin got there ....seeing knew who the fellow was... he should have just got back in the Police car and drove away...555. 

I am sure that the likes of @Kathmandu.... @lazarus.... @Painter..... @fygjam..... @forqalso..... etc... that if they had a home invasion and the first Police Officer on the scene was Chauvin that they would have turned him away as they knelt with the home invaders ..or would they say.. ...do your job as we need protection against these criminals..

cheers

You really don’t get it.  Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd’s neck for three and a half minutes after he stopped breathing, while he was handcuffed. No one is saying the cops shouldn’t do their jobs, if they can’t put a 6’7” (182cm) man in the small back seat area of their car, there is another option besides killing him in the streets.  Bring in a van. It’s cheaper the the $27,000,000 settlement the city has to pay and the cops don’t end up in prison. It’s really not that difficult of a concept to grasp. The police should do their jobs, but that doesn’t include murdering people in my name.  Not applauding a murder doesn’t make me anti-cop.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by forqalso

[Kathmandu]

15 hours ago, forqalso said:

Which habitual criminal are you talking about, Floyd or Chauvin?  https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/831934-chauvin-three-other-officers-face-new-charges-for-floyd-death
 It seems your hero, the murderer, couldn’t control a 14 year old boy without nearly choking him to death too.  Weak minded men like you often make odd choices for their hero worship.  

@forqalso. You're wasting your time with rooboob. He couldn't pour sand out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel. 🤣🤣🤣

[Evil Penevil]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:56 PM, nampla69 said:

Why do you American boys put up with this Robyn di Angelo crock of as BM Larry Detroits finest would say rat shit.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I  reject Critical Race Theory and Robyn di Angelo's corollary of "white fragility."  It's nonsense and an intellectual fraud.   Whenever the occasion arises, I will oppose CRT and di Angelo's ideas as best I can.

Evil

[roobob]

5 hours ago, forqalso said:

You really don’t get it.  Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd’s neck for three and a half minutes after he stopped breathing, while he was handcuffed. No one is saying the cops shouldn’t do their jobs, if they can’t put a 6’7” (182cm) man in the small back seat area of their car, there is another option besides killing him in the streets.  Bring in a van. It’s cheaper the the $27,000,000 settlement the city has to pay and the cops don’t end up in prison. It’s really not that difficult of a concept to grasp. The police should do their jobs, but that doesn’t include murdering people in my name.  Not applauding a murder doesn’t make me anti-cop.

 

 

You do not get it. They did put the 6'7" man into the back of of a police car ..but he removed himself so was resisting arrest. Why did he not just sit there ..go to the station....call his lawyer. ?? It really is not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

Why did the city officials pay out $27million even before the case was heard/concluded? Going on that they are inept...they should all be removed from office. Well that is another story.

cheers

 

[Glasseye]