Golf

[Golfingboy]

Kudos to my boy Rory for “defending” his Canadian Open 3 years later

[AussieBob]

3 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

Tiger reportedly turned down just shy of $1B……basically would have doubled his net worth for crossing the line. Impressive IMO

But we are a long way from seeing the impact of all this. Do the Saudis have deep enough pockets to just throw billions at these players? Will the PGA just permanently expel all the defectors(not that it matters to those aged 40+ anyway)? Will LIV become THE dominant force & attract kids coming out of college? Will the majors include all the same players as last year and be just as important? When you hear DJ got $130M, is that 100% upfront, how many years must he commit, could he be screwed if LIV goes tits-up? 
 

A lot remains to be seen, I for one am surprised it got off the ground and is a “real thing”. For the longest while thought it was all talk and would be easily squashed by PGA Tour before the first tournament teed off

I heard the same about Tiger - but given he has just withdrawn from US Open I dont think we will see him for a while.

Good questions - we will have to wait and see how it all pans out.  Norman reckons the Saudis have committed to providing the funding for 4 years and it is all locked in - they certainly have the money.  But who knows how it will all go - business deals can suddenly fall apart for the smallest of reasons.

As you know I am all in favour of it succeeding and the PGA being crushed and taken apart. That crushed/destroyed wish of mine will not happen, but hopefully the PGA will have to compromise. I did a check of this year's earning on PGA tour - there are already 95 players who have earned over $1million so far this season. But when I look past the first 20 or so on that list, I start asking -- who??  And then I ask how much does any of those players actually bring the crowds and the audiences to the game - the answer is SFA when compared with Tiger, Rory, etc,  Rory has earned $5 million this year - he is worth 100 times more to the game/industry than most of the players on that list.   That is bad IMO, but this is far far worse - there was a guy they were talking about on the PGA tour who had never won a tournament - but he had made almost $15 million.  The top players in the game are being ripped off so that average and mediocre players can make a lot of money, and so that the PGA can keep control over the game/industry.  It needs to be changed - big time. 

Imagine Tom Brady only getting paid a $5-10million, so that lots of other players can make $1 million a year in the NFL.  IMO the elite of any sport deserve to get most of the rewards - it should not be possible for a 'journeymen' to make $15 million on the PGA tour. The elite golf players are being ripped off - it is so obvious, but the PGA has refused to change for decades. 

But the added benefit of the change that the LIV will hopefully bring about, is the elite players competing against each other a lot more, and in a lot more locations around the world.  It is a world game, but the PGA controls who plays where and when - and they demand 'their' players play mostly in the USA.  If the LIV 'wins out' then I can see an elite competition happening whereby we see the top 50+ players in the world competing against each other 10-12 times a year. At the moment we only see all of the best players in the 4 Majors and the Players, and in events like the Ryder Cup (but even that excludes the non-US/Europe players).  The rest of the time we only see a few of the best in each tournament because many are 'resting' - or it does not 'fit in with their schedule'. 

Back in the 'old' days of golf, Jack et al used to compete against each other all the time - it was not just in the majors. Nowadays we have to look at each event's player list to see who has decided to play this weekend's tournament.  Just look at this weeks RBC Canadian Open - Rory, Justin, Cam are playing - but there are only 10 of the top 50 in the world playing. They should all be playing each other a lot more - a lot more - that is what we deserve (and pay for).  I dont give a rat's rear about the bloke who is at number 100 on the tour earnings every year - and it pi**es me off that he is making over $1 million a year. 

[Jambo]

11 hours ago, AussieBob said:

I heard the same about Tiger - but given he has just withdrawn from US Open I dont think we will see him for a while.

Good questions - we will have to wait and see how it all pans out.  Norman reckons the Saudis have committed to providing the funding for 4 years and it is all locked in - they certainly have the money.  But who knows how it will all go - business deals can suddenly fall apart for the smallest of reasons.

As you know I am all in favour of it succeeding and the PGA being crushed and taken apart. That crushed/destroyed wish of mine will not happen, but hopefully the PGA will have to compromise. I did a check of this year's earning on PGA tour - there are already 95 players who have earned over $1million so far this season. But when I look past the first 20 or so on that list, I start asking -- who??  And then I ask how much does any of those players actually bring the crowds and the audiences to the game - the answer is SFA when compared with Tiger, Rory, etc,  Rory has earned $5 million this year - he is worth 100 times more to the game/industry than most of the players on that list.   That is bad IMO, but this is far far worse - there was a guy they were talking about on the PGA tour who had never won a tournament - but he had made almost $15 million.  The top players in the game are being ripped off so that average and mediocre players can make a lot of money, and so that the PGA can keep control over the game/industry.  It needs to be changed - big time. 

Imagine Tom Brady only getting paid a $5-10million, so that lots of other players can make $1 million a year in the NFL.  IMO the elite of any sport deserve to get most of the rewards - it should not be possible for a 'journeymen' to make $15 million on the PGA tour. The elite golf players are being ripped off - it is so obvious, but the PGA has refused to change for decades. 

But the added benefit of the change that the LIV will hopefully bring about, is the elite players competing against each other a lot more, and in a lot more locations around the world.  It is a world game, but the PGA controls who plays where and when - and they demand 'their' players play mostly in the USA.  If the LIV 'wins out' then I can see an elite competition happening whereby we see the top 50+ players in the world competing against each other 10-12 times a year. At the moment we only see all of the best players in the 4 Majors and the Players, and in events like the Ryder Cup (but even that excludes the non-US/Europe players).  The rest of the time we only see a few of the best in each tournament because many are 'resting' - or it does not 'fit in with their schedule'. 

Back in the 'old' days of golf, Jack et al used to compete against each other all the time - it was not just in the majors. Nowadays we have to look at each event's player list to see who has decided to play this weekend's tournament.  Just look at this weeks RBC Canadian Open - Rory, Justin, Cam are playing - but there are only 10 of the top 50 in the world playing. They should all be playing each other a lot more - a lot more - that is what we deserve (and pay for).  I dont give a rat's rear about the bloke who is at number 100 on the tour earnings every year - and it pi**es me off that he is making over $1 million a year. 

The PGA is going to have to pay generous Appearance Fees once again if they want to consolidate the top twenty world players competing with one another on a regular basis.

That is why the LIV tour is offering shed fulls of money just for taking part. Might not have secured the big names yet but you just need one or two to defect?

Gross hypocrisy to single golfers out for the sports washing blame game. 

[Britboy]

I'm a member at Centurion, where they're playing this first event, starting today. It's a great course.

Not bad crowds there, though I do wonder about the motives of some of these players who've "defected".

Rory is good mates with McDowell, can imagine they've had a good few discussions about the Saudis.

[Stillearly]

Back in the old days , the prize money was significantly smaller , so the top players had to play every week to make a decent living ... now since Tiger bought huge audiences and big money to the game they are all multi millionaires so can pick and choose... 

but it's obviously not enough for some 

[Stillearly]

31 minutes ago, Britboy said:

I'm a member at Centurion, where they're playing this first event, starting today. It's a great course.

Not bad crowds there, though I do wonder about the motives of some of these players who've "defected".

Rory is good mates with McDowell, can imagine they've had a good few discussions about the Saudis.

Rory still believes he can win majors , I think for the others that ship has sailed 

[Golfingboy]

I’m curious how the big sponsors will react. RBC dropped DJ, but that’s normal seeing as he chose to play LIV instead of the RBC Canadian Open. I still see him in short ads for Taylormade before a YouTube or golf video, so they haven’t dropped him yet. 
 

Like I’ve said, I’m all in favour of total player freedom, the PGA should not be acting like a dictatorship. Monahan the commissioner makes $5M/year to head a “non-profit”….yeah OK. Does he really think the expulsions will change anything? No way, those guys are mostly older & got guaranteed cash, set for life already. But I won’t be tuning in to LIV in the current form, with a bunch of has-beens. It’s almost like a glorified skins game during Xmas, only with 100x the cash in play. 
 

I think it might lead to some positive change, and I’m all for the Rory’s, Collins, and Koepkas cashing in on what they are worth to the maximum. Just like Ronaldo, Lebron, Lewis Hamilton etc……But call me boring, I don’t mind the current structure of the PGA. It wasn’t that broken, and we’re only having this discussion because some foolish investors backed by unlimited oil wealth ,thought it would be great to try and change the norm

[Britboy]

5 minutes ago, Golfingboy said:

I’m curious how the big sponsors will react. RBC dropped DJ, but that’s normal seeing as he chose to play LIV instead of the RBC Canadian Open. I still see him in short ads for Taylormade before a YouTube or golf video, so they haven’t dropped him yet. 
 

Like I’ve said, I’m all in favour of total player freedom, the PGA should not be acting like a dictatorship. Monahan the commissioner makes $5M/year to head a “non-profit”….yeah OK. Does he really think the expulsions will change anything? No way, those guys are mostly older & got guaranteed cash, set for life already. But I won’t be tuning in to LIV in the current form, with a bunch of has-beens. It’s almost like a glorified skins game during Xmas, only with 100x the cash in play. 
 

I think it might lead to some positive change, and I’m all for the Rory’s, Collins, and Koepkas cashing in on what they are worth to the maximum. Just like Ronaldo, Lebron, Lewis Hamilton etc……But call me boring, I don’t mind the current structure of the PGA. It wasn’t that broken, and we’re only having this discussion because some foolish investors backed by unlimited oil wealth ,thought it would be great to try and change the norm

What I don't like about it is it could well totally screw up the Ryder Cup, plus I like the push players make to be world no. 1. If there's two tours and the PGA not recognising LIV that'll be screwed too.

Your phrase of has-beens is part accurate, players like Westwood and some of the hangers on. But Sergio and DJ could still win big on the PGA tour and it sounds like a few others may defect too, including DeChambeau.

From what I read the majors are not part of the PGA tour, but I wonder how welcomed the LIV players (who qualify) will be by the PGA tour players at those events.

It looks like this is going to really screw up golf as we know it.

[Golfingboy]

1 minute ago, Britboy said:

What I don't like about it is it could well totally screw up the Ryder Cup, plus I like the push players make to be world no. 1. If there's two tours and the PGA not recognising LIV that'll be screwed too.

Your phrase of has-beens is part accurate, players like Westwood and some of the hangers on. But Sergio and DJ could still win big on the PGA tour and it sounds like a few others may defect too, including DeChambeau.

From what I read the majors are not part of the PGA tour, but I wonder how welcomed the LIV players (who qualify) will be by the PGA tour players at those events.

It looks like this is going to really screw up golf as we know it.

Bryson HAS moved over, he was probably the last one to make it official few days ago. The PGA Tour operates the President’s  Cup & already said the defectors are banned from the next one in September. USGA runs the US Open next week and said ALL are welcome, which I like. The Open in July won’t ban anybody either. 
 

It’s still early, and the PGA cannot expect respect by just giving ultimatums. But next April/May, Augusta and PGA Championship, I COULD see those two siding with Monahan, if there’s no compromise reached. But I hope not, the majors should always have the strongest fields, be a shame if that changes just because guys chose to be free agents

[Golfingboy]

[Stillearly]

[Stillearly]

Or course the great thing for DJ is he doesn't need to win anymore, just walk around the course for two days  ( is there a cut in LIV .. ) and be paid 

[AussieBob]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:38 AM, Stillearly said:

Back in the old days , the prize money was significantly smaller , so the top players had to play every week to make a decent living ... now since Tiger bought huge audiences and big money to the game they are all multi millionaires so can pick and choose... 

but it's obviously not enough for some 

Golf has a lot more money than the top players are getting - compared to all other broadcasted sports worldwide. Remember than golf is on most of the year - other sports have much shorter seasons.  The PGA spreads it out amongst all the PGA players, and that has attracted players from many other countries - at the expense of the players, spectators and businesses in those other countries.

Rory gets 4-5 times as much as the 100th PGA player? If he wins a few events. Multiple top 10 finishes and all the media attraction means nothing??   That would be like paying Tom Brady or Rossi or Jordan $4-5 million a year, so that 100 others can all earn $1 million. The big names should be paid big salaries - winning should be a bonus. That is was LIV is all about - no cuts - just the top players all earning big bucks and bonuses for wins. 

The PGA has refused for a long time to consider this approach - they will lose more players when they see what others are earning. Which is why we have the problem with the  PGA - the money dwarfs what is available in other countries - because the PGA designed their game that way - and they refuse to change because they want to maintain that control - they dont care about the game or players worldwide.

 

[AussieBob]

On 6/10/2022 at 7:06 AM, Golfingboy said:

I’m curious how the big sponsors will react. RBC dropped DJ, but that’s normal seeing as he chose to play LIV instead of the RBC Canadian Open. I still see him in short ads for Taylormade before a YouTube or golf video, so they haven’t dropped him yet. 
 

Like I’ve said, I’m all in favour of total player freedom, the PGA should not be acting like a dictatorship. Monahan the commissioner makes $5M/year to head a “non-profit”….yeah OK. Does he really think the expulsions will change anything? No way, those guys are mostly older & got guaranteed cash, set for life already. But I won’t be tuning in to LIV in the current form, with a bunch of has-beens. It’s almost like a glorified skins game during Xmas, only with 100x the cash in play. 
 

I think it might lead to some positive change, and I’m all for the Rory’s, Collins, and Koepkas cashing in on what they are worth to the maximum. Just like Ronaldo, Lebron, Lewis Hamilton etc……But call me boring, I don’t mind the current structure of the PGA. It wasn’t that broken, and we’re only having this discussion because some foolish investors backed by unlimited oil wealth ,thought it would be great to try and change the norm

Cant agree with all of that - some of it but not all. 

The sponsors of clothing etc is aside from PGA sponsors support - they are separate - controlled and allowed by PGA (to wear gear while playing) but separate. 

The first LIV round was good - will be watching round 2 today (they have it on free replay - all 5 hours). The format seems a little confusing but after a while I started to get it. Not so sure the team aspect is a winner though - the players are playing more like a singles event - with the team points not so clearly understood at any given moment. But I think it will develop and improve as the games move forward. Overall I enjoyed it - and there was no bad luck of the draw crap - everyone played at the same time - the whole day was finished  in under 5 hours.  I liked it a lot. 

If the PGA responds and sets up an elite competition whereby the top 50 players in the world are paid to play, and play is under a format where there are no cuts, and they play twice a month, and they must play every event, and the events are held all over the world, then LIV will have changed the game for the better. 

I also hope if/when LIV is forced to break away from PGA, R&A etc etc that they also change the rules - a lot. I hope they also change stupid rules like - bad luck about that divot ion the middle of the fairway, or out of bounds or a lost ball is an extra shot penalty, etc etc etc - that would be grerat for the game - both Pro and more so for the Amatuers. . 

[AussieBob]

3 hours ago, Stillearly said:

Or course the great thing for DJ is he doesn't need to win anymore, just walk around the course for two days  ( is there a cut in LIV .. ) and be paid 

No cut - each player is on a salary/contract - big bucks for the big names, less for the unknowns. But there is significant bonuses available to all who play each event for how well they play - many $millions - much more than what is on offer at the Majors and it is spread across fewer players and there is no cut. Winning bonuses for each event and overall season - both as a player and as part of a team.  Each team is 4 players - 12 teams so far. The competition could take 18 teams of 4 players (72 in total) - it is shotgun start stroke play.  

[Golfingboy]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

No cut - each player is on a salary/contract - big bucks for the big names, less for the unknowns. But there is significant bonuses available to all who play each event for how well they play - many $millions - much more than what is on offer at the Majors and it is spread across fewer players and there is no cut. Winning bonuses for each event and overall season - both as a player and as part of a team.  Each team is 4 players - 12 teams so far. The competition could take 18 teams of 4 players (72 in total) - it is shotgun start stroke play.  

Bob , look you’re entitled to your opinion. But I’d rather not comment on LIV anymore with you.Sounds like a broken record, there’s no way in hell I can get behind this operation, especially with Greg in charge, always hated him. Best driver of the ball ever with the old technology, but otherwise a c—t. Him and my immigrant Canadian Stephen Ames should be best mates, two of a kind, so self-absorbed. 
 

Now you want to talk pace of play? Well yes  12 groups in a shotgun solves that, I agree. But that’s not how golf is played. And you say more $, less players(Top 50 only), elite field? And how often are we supposed to switch it up Bob? Just because you were great the last 7–8 years, the youngster who’s 22 playing the mini-tours should be shut out unless he shoots 61-62 every week? We already have the FedEx Cup playoffs and a $15M bonus to boot. The Champions Tour I believe is still like that, 81 spots most weeks, 27 threesomes, but less than 10 get there by Q-School or Monday qualifying….rest are solely by PGA career earnings. Very tough, but I guess it’s an additional pension freebies for older golfers

The divot rule 100% must be changed. Think it cost the late Payne Stewart in the 1998 US Open, among others. Christ if we can putt with the stick in, we can drop somewhere else having hit the fairway

OK rant over, I will glued to my TV at 3 pm EST for the crappy field at my nation’s Open 🇨🇦 
 

[AussieBob]

3 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

Bob , look you’re entitled to your opinion. But I’d rather not comment on LIV anymore with you.Sounds like a broken record, there’s no way in hell I can get behind this operation, especially with Greg in charge, always hated him. Best driver of the ball ever with the old technology, but otherwise a c—t. Him and my immigrant Canadian Stephen Ames should be best mates, two of a kind, so self-absorbed. 
 

Now you want to talk pace of play? Well yes  12 groups in a shotgun solves that, I agree. But that’s not how golf is played. And you say more $, less players(Top 50 only), elite field? And how often are we supposed to switch it up Bob? Just because you were great the last 7–8 years, the youngster who’s 22 playing the mini-tours should be shut out unless he shoots 61-62 every week? We already have the FedEx Cup playoffs and a $15M bonus to boot. The Champions Tour I believe is still like that, 81 spots most weeks, 27 threesomes, but less than 10 get there by Q-School or Monday qualifying….rest are solely by PGA career earnings. Very tough, but I guess it’s an additional pension freebies for older golfers

The divot rule 100% must be changed. Think it cost the late Payne Stewart in the 1998 US Open, among others. Christ if we can putt with the stick in, we can drop somewhere else having hit the fairway

OK rant over, I will glued to my TV at 3 pm EST for the crappy field at my nation’s Open 🇨🇦 
 

Fair enough - lets stay away from Norman - he is a very polarising person.

But just to briefly answer your points - the younger players will have the incentive to do well and earn heaps by getting into the invited list of players each year (like in Basketball, NFL, Hockey, etc etc). Currently in golf the average players are capable to make serious money without being real good - $15 million without a win and only a few top 10s is wrong.  The LIV wanted to be a part of the overall tours - the Asian Tour supported and sanctioned them - but the PGA will not accept a new member/competitor - so LIV went ahead without them.

Glad we agree about the rules - but it is even more important for us amateurs. What might be OK for the pros on their manicured well maintained courses, is utterly ridiculous to impose on us amateurs playing on average amateur managed golf courses, with too many aholes who do replace divots at all, nor rack the greens at all, and on greens and bunkers and fairways that are just nowhere near the quality the Pros have. I remember the first time I played in a ProAm - I could not believe how good the fairways were - so easy to hit a good shot - and the bunkers were perfect - so easy to get out of - the greens were very quick, but they were true and they were all the same speed. Forcing amateurs to play by the same rules as Pros is just effin ridiculous.    

[AussieBob]

The PGA has banned/suspended their registered players who competed in the LIV event in London.  The DP World Tour (European Tour) is thinking about their decision - but obviously under a lot of pressure to follow the PGA. The Asian Tour sanctioned the LIV events so their players have no issues. 

Worth noting that the majority of players in London are not USA players. But after Bryson De Chambeau has announced he is playing the next LIV event, the rumours are that some/all of the following may join him:  Patrick Reed, Rickie Fowler, Matt Wolff, Pat Perez, Bubba Watson and Jason Kokrak. 

The LIV management has responded that the PGA Tour's decision is vindictive and probably a breach of employment and/or contract laws as they are basically 'free agents' not employees.  Ian Poulter has declared he will legally challenge the decision, and there are several others considering joining in that legal challenge - it is unknown what legal/financial support LIV will provide to the players' legal challenge.  However, several other players, most notably Sergio Garcia, have said they dont care and the PGA can shove it up their ..........

[Jambo]

2 hours ago, AussieBob said:

The PGA has banned/suspended their registered players who competed in the LIV event in London.  The DP World Tour (European Tour) is thinking about their decision - but obviously under a lot of pressure to follow the PGA. The Asian Tour sanctioned the LIV events so their players have no issues. 

Worth noting that the majority of players in London are not USA players. But after Bryson De Chambeau has announced he is playing the next LIV event, the rumours are that some/all of the following may join him:  Patrick Reed, Rickie Fowler, Matt Wolff, Pat Perez, Bubba Watson and Jason Kokrak. 

The LIV management has responded that the PGA Tour's decision is vindictive and probably a breach of employment and/or contract laws as they are basically 'free agents' not employees.  Ian Poulter has declared he will legally challenge the decision, and there are several others considering joining in that legal challenge - it is unknown what legal/financial support LIV will provide to the players' legal challenge.  However, several other players, most notably Sergio Garcia, have said they dont care and the PGA can shove it up their ..........

If I was Sergio I would do exactly the same. Hr is realistic to know that he is now making up the numbers nearer the top than the bottom but well past his wonderful best. Take the shed full of money mate.

 

[Golfingboy]

The Canadian Open always attracted very bad fields the last 15-20 years, as it was always scheduled the week before/after both Opens. But now with LIV taking away some talent, I don’t think I’ve seen a Top 5 with this quality. Funny eh? 
 

 

 

[Golfingboy]

Oh my Rory being Rory again. 200 yards from ankle deep cabbage, muscles it on the green to almost make eagle. Next hole, tries to drive a par 4 and it looks OB…..luckily it’s sitting on next tee box, he flops a beauty to 6 feet but lips out. Sad….

Finau just missed a 5 footer after a beautiful wedge…..if he putted better today he would be on 59 watch. Christ he just stuffed another one on par 3 16th

Edited June 11, 2022 by Golfingboy

[Golfingboy]

Finau in the house at -11, Rory one back now.

Rory has got the driver working OK again, these are insane numbers. This is in Toronto at sea level, not JoBurg at 7,500 feet……

 

 

[Golfingboy]

From Patrick Reed’s Twitter……ouch! 
 

 

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

Finau in the house at -11, Rory one back now.

Rory has got the driver working OK again, these are insane numbers. This is in Toronto at sea level, not JoBurg at 7,500 feet……

 

 

Will Finau fold and collapse like a cheap suit yet again - or will he show some internal fortitude. Could be a great last day to watch if he steps up - both bombers hitting it a mile.  Too far IMO but that is for another day/year.

 

 

[AussieBob]

LIV was great - last day showed how good it is.  The Sth Africans cleaned up with Charl winning over $5 million all up. Big crowds and lots of live streaming - service overloaded at one point but YouTube all good.  A few kinks to iron out but overall it was excellent.  Patrick Reid and Pat Perez have joined - I expect a few more coming soon - probably after the Open.

In answer to that post slagging off Reid on Twitter - the answers are obvious:

1. You are a snowflake liberal right - emotional personal abuse is MOI for you guys.

2.  Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki - how many innocent women and children killed or maimed for life.  Saudis have a long long way to go to ever get near that - let alone in Vietnam, Korea, Libya, etc etc etc (Pot and Kettle mate?) 

3.. I get you would love some more oil for the Saudis - especially now it is $5 a gallon in US.