52 Year old Norweigan Man Takes How Own Life

[Zambo]

7 minutes ago, Glasseye said:

He's from a part of the World that sees many more days of darkness, literally. I recall that there is a link between the amount (lack of) daylight a person experiences and "depression". 

Maybe when he arrived to the sunny beaches the shock was too great?

Either way.... he is now on a road to nowhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdsAbzR8l5Y

Glasseye i believe you have some threads there, but they don't entirely string together.

If the hypothesis that he did kill himself holds up i expect alcohol adding to any existing depression about his wife/girlfriend and general feelings of failure would be an important part. The next point is the old saying "money can't buy happiness". Correct, but money does give the opportunity to change your life - and severe lack of money brings an inability to change your life. If you are depressed, short of money and working as a bar manager i think a downward spiral is quite possible.

[Glasseye]

14 minutes ago, Zambo said:

Glasseye i believe you have some threads there, but they don't entirely string together.

If the hypothesis that he did kill himself holds up i expect alcohol adding to any existing depression about his wife/girlfriend and general feelings of failure would be an important part. The next point is the old saying "money can't buy happiness". Correct, but money does give the opportunity to change your life - and severe lack of money brings an inability to change your life. If you are depressed, short of money and working as a bar manager i think a downward spiral is quite possible.

 

 

They all mesh together mate... 

[Glasseye]

Just now, Glasseye said:

 

 

They all mesh together mate... 

I tend to often throw a little dark humor into these types of stories. Probably not appropriate, but I don't care after working so many of them.

[Zambo]

13 minutes ago, Glasseye said:

I tend to often throw a little dark humor into these types of stories. Probably not appropriate, but I don't care after working so many of them.

All very depressing stuff. 

[Golfingboy]

The sunshine element does have some merit. My tests have come back all “normal range”, but some days when it’s sunny I make it a point to go on the deck shirtless for 30 minutes to absorb as much Vitamin D  as possible. For some people, deficiency can lead to many problems….. I worked nights many years, then stayed indoors during the pandemic…not sure how much this contributed to my recent illness. 
 

Have read many doctors prescribe à temporary mega-dose of D3, up to 100K units a week. Don’t know if I agree with that, my caplets are under 1K. But every one especially with long winters should have this scientifically checked to get their exact number, I’ve heard of guys wondering why they’re sick, and having a 4 when healthy is 30+…..no wonder! 
 

B1 and B12 deficiencies also can create a host of issues. I’m going to look into TRT as well, seems to have changed many men’s lives

Edited September 4, 2023 by Golfingboy

[maipenrai]

Sunshine/daylight can have a lot to do with it - I lived for a year well above the Arctic Circle, in Inuvik, NWT, where the sun didn't even peek above the horizon for a month in the dead of winter, and it was dreadful; I took a cut in pay to get out of there and move further south to Dawson City, home of the historic Klondike Gold Rush, which was a great place in the summertime but boring and depressing in the winter when all of the tourists and summer workers were gone and it was dark and cold much of the time. Every year we'd have a suicide or two in the dead of winter, and this in a town with a permanent population of only about 800-1000 at that time - used to shake everybody up when this happened. 

My own personal Thai connection to this was a former board member that I had met once or twice who distinguished himself by dropping off the top floor of View Talay 6 in the middle of the day, right beside the swimming pool - poor form, I thought, being so public about it... 

[lazarus]

I've known several people who committed suicide that were clinically depressed. Either they went off their meds, or the meds no longer worked. Seems the mental pain just gets to be too much.

That said, when I lived in Bangkok I noticed that a lot of ex-pats were not totally "there." Some folks move to Thailand thinking it will solve their problems when actually it makes them worse. Hence, the "flying club."

. . .

Risk factors, protective factors, and warning signs

https://afsp.org/risk-factors-protective-factors-and-warning-signs/

What leads to suicide?
There’s no single cause for suicide. Suicide most often occurs when stressors and health issues converge to create an experience of hopelessness and despair. Depression is the most common condition associated with suicide, and it is often undiagnosed or untreated. Conditions like depression, anxiety, and substance problems, especially when unaddressed, increase risk for suicide. Yet it’s important to note that most people who actively manage their mental health conditions go on to engage in life.

Risk factors
Risk factors are characteristics or conditions that increase the chance that a person may try to take their life.

• Health
• Mental health conditions
• Depression
• Substance use problems
• Bipolar disorder
• Schizophrenia
• Personality traits of aggression, mood changes and poor relationships
• Conduct disorder
• Anxiety disorders
• Serious physical health conditions including pain
• Traumatic brain injury

Environmental

• Access to lethal means including firearms and drugs
• Prolonged stress, such as harassment, bullying, relationship problems or unemployment
• Stressful life events, like rejection, divorce, financial crisis, other life transitions or loss
• Exposure to another person’s suicide, or to graphic or sensationalized accounts of suicide

Historical

• Previous suicide attempts
• Family history of suicide
• Childhood abuse, neglect or trauma

[tommy dee]

in my chosen occupation/addictin I get the police photos thru the night and morning coming in as they were taken.  sadly you become hardened to the way people die.. head this side of the road, body that  etc.

 

but when you KNOW the person its different.  Lee that was a part of the live board, way back when.. I saw those photos, that was the firs ttime ( motorbike accidewnt) and the last was an amazing swedish pal who was the lighting engineer at tiffany, he had lots of serious issues but i got the story of a man hung on his own balcony.. then saw.. that it was my pal.  that was heart breaking

but the pattaya jumpers club has thrived over the years.. as has the death by other cause group that competes.. its never ending.  I think this place is a magnet for many with issues, over and above the semi normal like us

[Glasseye]

8 minutes ago, tommy dee said:

in my chosen occupation/addictin I get the police photos thru the night and morning coming in as they were taken.  sadly you become hardened to the way people die.. head this side of the road, body that  etc.

 

but when you KNOW the person its different.  Lee that was a part of the live board, way back when.. I saw those photos, that was the firs ttime ( motorbike accidewnt) and the last was an amazing swedish pal who was the lighting engineer at tiffany, he had lots of serious issues but i got the story of a man hung on his own balcony.. then saw.. that it was my pal.  that was heart breaking

but the pattaya jumpers club has thrived over the years.. as has the death by other cause group that competes.. its never ending.  I think this place is a magnet for many with issues, over and above the semi normal like us

 

As Laz mentioned it's usually a combo of things, cascading into a moment that can't be turned back. Either way, suicide is a choice many may make in some fashion or another, regardless of "societies" stigmas, thoughts, or beliefs related. There are jumpers, etc. then there is the 98 year old who consciously decides to stop eating. It is our own lives, our own decision. As long as as no innocents are physically harmed. 

 

-----------------------------------------

 

And yes Tommy. People who you don't know... it becomes tolerable. People you know, it creates a gut wrenching impact. The visual becomes imeded in your mind and can return at any moment for any or no reason. That is when you look away for a few moments, allow yourself to sort it out, begin to fiddle with something else, then get back to what you do best.

[tko]

On 9/4/2023 at 1:28 PM, maipenrai said:

Sunshine/daylight can have a lot to do with it - I lived for a year well above the Arctic Circle, in Inuvik, NWT, where the sun didn't even peek above the horizon for a month in the dead of winter, and it was dreadful; I took a cut in pay to get out of there and move further south to Dawson City, home of the historic Klondike Gold Rush, which was a great place in the summertime but boring and depressing in the winter when all of the tourists and summer workers were gone and it was dark and cold much of the time. Every year we'd have a suicide or two in the dead of winter, and this in a town with a permanent population of only about 800-1000 at that time - used to shake everybody up when this happened. 

My own personal Thai connection to this was a former board member that I had met once or twice who distinguished himself by dropping off the top floor of View Talay 6 in the middle of the day, right beside the swimming pool - poor form, I thought, being so public about it... 

I was on a long assignment in Norway, and it started a light rain in late August the second year that didn't let up until it turned to snow and ice in October.  By November I'd had enough of the perpetual darkness and told my company I was going to be back in Texas within six months working for them or somebody else.  They got me transferred back in four months.

[Krapow]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:44 AM, tommy dee said:

I think this place is a magnet for many with issues, over and above the semi normal like us

Absolutely it is, anyone can get accepted, indeed made to feel like some sorta superstar sexy man, if they have the money.

It's when the money runs out, and the reality hits, and for many they sold up anything and everything they had on the initial 'buzz' when first discovered Pattaya. 

[Zambo]

1 minute ago, Krapow said:

Absolutely it is, anyone can get accepted, indeed made to feel like some sorta superstar sexy man, if they have the money.

It's when the money runs out, and the reality hits, and for many they sold up anything and everything they had on the initial 'buzz' when first discovered Pattaya. 

Yes agreed 100%. When you have sold up in an expensive home country and gone to live in a cheaper, more fun country and the money runs out you are pretty much out of options and without a safety net.

[Derek Dangleberries]

On 9/5/2023 at 6:44 AM, tommy dee said:

Lee that was a part of the live board, way back when.. I saw those photos, that was the firs ttime ( motorbike accidewnt)

The video of him in the body bag clearly showing his face getting zipped up was ... I can't find the words.. 

[ChiFlyer]

Returning to the personal aspect of this sad story.

The deceased's family is in Pattaya at this time and are taking the corpse back to Norway for burial. There will be a Buddhist Memorial on the Dark Side on Friday the 8th. I plan on attending, just to show my support for his friends in the extended crowd.

I am most certainly not looking forward to 3 hours of monk chants. hmma-bamma- ... I want to go home. 😞

I agree with many of the general dynamics that posters have been discussing. At the same time, I feel that there is something different in this particular sad story 

[forcebwithu]

7 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Returning to the personal aspect of this sad story.

The deceased's family is in Pattaya at this time and are taking the corpse back to Norway for burial. There will be a Buddhist Memorial on the Dark Side on Friday the 8th. I plan on attending, just to show my support for his friends in the extended crowd.

I am most certainly not looking forward to 3 hours of monk chants. hmma-bamma- ... I want to go home. 😞

I agree with many of the general dynamics that posters have been discussing. At the same time, I feel that there is something different in this particular sad story 

It may happen the service starts early and is over and done with quickly, as happened for Striderman's service. The few memorial services I've been to for westerners, the ceremonies were all less than an hour.

[fforest]

9 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Returning to the personal aspect of this sad story.

The deceased's family is in Pattaya at this time and are taking the corpse back to Norway for burial. There will be a Buddhist Memorial on the Dark Side on Friday the 8th. I plan on attending, just to show my support for his friends in the extended crowd.

I am most certainly not looking forward to 3 hours of monk chants. hmma-bamma- ... I want to go home. 😞

I agree with many of the general dynamics that posters have been discussing. At the same time, I feel that there is something different in this particular sad story 

Ship the body to Norway??..........Man if I Croak, I say just have a weenie roast give the ashes to the fish, and be done with it....

Take my money that would have been spent on $$$ shipping and do something useful like give it to the Father Ray Orphanage....

 

People do not realize how soon you will be forgotten when you're gone...Hey, what's the last time any of you guys went to visit ANY of your relative's expensive burial plots or headstones in a cemetery?

Between Once, twice tops, and never is my guess....

Edited September 7, 2023 by fforest

[ChiFlyer]

6 hours ago, fforest said:

Ship the body to Norway??..........Man if I Croak, I say just have a weenie roast give the ashes to the fish, and be done with it....

Take my money that would have been spent on $$$ shipping and do something useful like give it to the Father Ray Orphanage....

 

People do not realize how soon you will be forgotten when you're gone...Hey, what's the last time any of you guys went to visit ANY of your relative's expensive burial plots or headstones in a cemetery?

Between Once, twice tops, and never is my guess....

I tend to agree, but I was told this was the family's decision. They are in mourning.

[ChiFlyer]

8 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

It may happen the service starts early and is over and done with quickly, as happened for Striderman's service. The few memorial services I've been to for westerners, the ceremonies were all less than an hour.

I think the difference may be is what you described is the case for cremations. We attended a cremation service a few weeks back and it was similar to what you describe about Striderman's service.

This service for the Norwegian guy is not a cremation, but rather a memorial service. The Mrs tells me that those run longer. I shall see.

[Zambo]

6 hours ago, fforest said:

People do not realize how soon you will be forgotten when you're gone...Hey, what's the last time any of you guys went to visit ANY of your relative's expensive burial plots or headstones in a cemetery?

I agree partially, yes no need for expensive plots, headstones or urns. The person isn't there.

But happy memories of a person are different from a marker and can last.

[Glasseye]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:21 AM, fforest said:

Ship the body to Norway??..........Man if I Croak, I say just have a weenie roast give the ashes to the fish, and be done with it....

Take my money that would have been spent on $$$ shipping and do something useful like give it to the Father Ray Orphanage....

 

People do not realize how soon you will be forgotten when you're gone...Hey, what's the last time any of you guys went to visit ANY of your relative's expensive burial plots or headstones in a cemetery?

Between Once, twice tops, and never is my guess....

 

I think I understand what you are saying regading the "forget you". 

But, I never forget the past loved ones in my life. They surge through my mind and soul constantly. Their memory is what gives my life the most meaning. 

But, I agree I don't need to visit their headstone to remember them.

 

 

[lazarus]

5 hours ago, Glasseye said:

But, I agree I don't need to visit their headstone to remember them.

In Scandinavia / far Northern Europe it's a long tradition to visit ancestors in cemeteries. 

[ChiFlyer]

1 hour ago, lazarus said:

In Scandinavia / far Northern Europe it's a long tradition to visit ancestors in cemeteries. 

My mother's family was Czeck. Her parents (immigrants to the US) had 10 kids (5 died as children) and collectively they barely had a pot to piss in. Yet the family spent a significant portion of their money on burial plots. Sundays would often be spent at the grave sites. They did work 6 days a week. The burial site visit required a one hour bus ride each way across the city of Chicago. They could not afford a car.

Oddly enough, the family girl's burials would not get a mention on the major family tombstone. They would often be buried off to the side out of the way. By comparison the boys would get family tombstone mentions with pictures. A couple of my cousins recently corrected this by adding additional information to the major family tombstone. IMO -> nice move.

My mother was the first female of her generation that was "allowed" to go to high school. She had a couple of uncles who were outraged by this waste of money. Mom was only permitted to take 2 years of secretarial classes. She made the most of this and after my father died in the Korean War, it served her well. And yes she would drag my sister and I to the cemetery on Sundays. We both hated it. Mom did not learn how to drive, until I was about 7 years old, so we did the one hour cross city bus ride. I did learn a lot about the streets of Chicago.

A sad story? I don't think so. Many of my cousins and myself had university educations and did well enough in life. I met with one of said cousins at the grave sites on my last visit to the US. We cleaned things up a bit and chatted about all of the above.  

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by ChiFlyer

[ChiFlyer]

Well - I did get my lazy ass out of bed early enough for the Mrs and I to attend the memorial service.

The service was held in the house where the man died. There were only two Farangs at the service and about 20 Thai people. Most of the man's closer friends are back in Norway at this time.

The area where he lived is heavily Thai. Not many Farangs living in this housing area (Eakmongkol 4 on the Dark Side). Actually, it is not shown on Google Maps, but I found my way via real estate listings via Google.

Strange day, at least for me. We were told that the service would start at 11 AM. We got there about 10:45 and it was in progress. Evidently the monks showed up at 9:45 because they had a busy day. 🙄 The service lasted to about Noon.

A Thai friend of the Mrs was a close friend of the deceased. Believe it or not, I mean that the friendship was non-sexual. She paid for the service. We kicked in a little. The wife of the deceased was there. She paid for nothing, including for the transportation to the hospital the night he died. The non-sexual friend paid for that as well. The non-sexual friend was very sick a few years back. The deceased paid her medical bills and kept an eye on her as she recovered. They were friends, not lovers.

The deceased had a lover from Korat for 6 years. They split up and one week later he married his wife. She is pretty, but I tend to avoid Thai woman with dead husbands.

The Mrs was chatting with a neighbor of the deceased. She was told that said neighbor had heard a cry for help the night the man died. Said neighbor was afraid to talk to the police, the Mrs feels the same way.

Edited September 8, 2023 by ChiFlyer

[Zambo]

7 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

The Mrs was chatting with a neighbor of the deceased. She was told that said neighbor had heard a cry for help the night the man died. Said neighbor was afraid to talk to the police, the Mrs feels the same way.

This is a bit gruesome and not very neighbourly. It sounds as if he had last minute second thoughts but couldn't get out and then the noose took his weight. You can't blame her. It just becomes a doubt, if she had grabbed a knife and rushed round could she have cut the rope, or more likely she would have been too late anyway. All very sad.

[ChiFlyer]

16 hours ago, Zambo said:

This is a bit gruesome and not very neighbourly. It sounds as if he had last minute second thoughts but couldn't get out and then the noose took his weight. You can't blame her. It just becomes a doubt, if she had grabbed a knife and rushed round could she have cut the rope, or more likely she would have been too late anyway. All very sad.

I should really stop going on about this. The guy is dead and nothing is going to change that. At the same time, I feel that justice was not done to determine what happened.

Kind of makes me wonder a little about us ex-pats assuming the worse about a person meeting his end here in Bang Lamung. We are all damaged to start with? Maybe, but that is not automatically the whole story. 

The following facts raise suspicions about what happened.

• The Pattaya Police have a history of saying "dead Farang must have killed himself". The depth of their follow-up is very limited.
• The brother of the widow reported to the police that "they were not married". I have been sent pics of an elaborate wedding ceremony. Maybe they did not register with the Amphoe.
• This guy was not a newbie dumb ass. He had been coming out here for 10 years staying usually about 3 months at a time. He had a seasonal job in Norway and he spent Summers here. This is not a sudden change of Sunlight psychological reaction. About 2 years back he started staying here full time.
• The neighbors statement bothers me. Also, the widow after noticing the Mrs interaction with said neighbor tried to add the Mrs as a friend in Line. They had only met once before. The Mrs. immediately blocked her.
• The Mrs is having dreams about the deceased trying to talk to her. They were non-sexual friends as well. I do believe that dreams can be the resolution of subconscious observations.

Do I have any idea what really happened. Eff no, but a lot of this feels bad.