COVID 19 GLOBAL

[fforest]

16 minutes ago, fygjam said:

Anyone who thinks that PCR is a test doesn't understand PCR.

Anyone who doesn't understand PCR won't understand the diagnostic test for the SARS-CoV-2 virus (which uses PCR as PART of the test).

PCR is a technique, a process, which may be used as a part of a diagnostic test. And such a diagnostic test may indicate if an infectious agent, such as the SARS-CoV-2 virus, is present. And if present, that infectious agent may make you sick. And whether you are sick (have symptoms) or not, you still can pass that infectious agent on to others.

As for Mullis and Fauci, Fauci thought AIDS was caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), Mullis didn't think there was any connection between HIV and AIDS (Mullis was called an HIV/AIDS denialist by some).

How unusual for a person with a differing view on something to bad mouth someone who has a counter view. You'd never find that on this forum.

 

 

If the PCR test is cycled up enough then everyone would test positive because EVERYONE has corona dna fragments in them.....If the pcr test was cycled down enough then no one would test positive.....Does the news ever say what cycles the pcr tests are run at?........No....... 100% never.......

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, Jambo said:

I am sure you are correct which means 'the world is NEVER going to see the end of Covid's mutations' and if that means annual vaccinations, as is the case currently with influenza, then we have to get used to that and get on with things.

Getting on with things can mean anything or nothing. It needs context otherwise its a pointless expression.

Sadly the expression can also infer a cop out, a surrender, or even 5th Column aimed activities etc.

It can mean anything or just empty words.

So some examples -

In the UK when death rates were spiraling out of control, they 'got on with things'  by broadening lockdowns, plus the existing social distancing, hand sanitizing and face mask use in indoor areas, public transport etc.

Once vaccinations became available, they were fast track for emergency use, ie they 'got on with things'.

The results were excellent - achieved by communities working to a common goal and 'getting on with things'.

But in other countries etc certain elements seemed determined to undermine effective measures that have been proven to contain the virus, they also  'got on with things' but in a dangerous way, endangering public health by what they were doing or not doing.

The far better way of 'getting on with things' is to back the science. It will have wins and some losses but our species can be smart and determined. At least one of the vaccination providers is manufacturing etc on a no profit, for cost basis.

To have various versions of (effective ?) vaccines available with a year is historically astounding.

Yes increasingly infectious mutations are on the rise and that means science will need to chase those mutations as well. Indications are future drug treatment might be a pill, tablet etc. Also while the new mutations appear to be more infectious there are indications that it may not be as deadly.

With the 1918 Flu there was no vaccination. They didn't know what caused it. All they had was social distancing, hand washing and face masks, yet the virus is believed to have mutated after 3 or 4 waves depending where you were, to a form relatively harmless to humans.

So the jury is probably out on whether 'the world is NEVER going to see the end of Covid's mutations as well. 

The more important questions are probably going to be -

1) How deadly are future mutations going to be to humans.

2) What progress is made by science in putting this bloody thing back in its box. At least the deadly forms.

Those answers lay in the future and the future is unknowable.

But I'll put my money on the science. Won't be perfect always, but what is ?

In the meantime, the effective and recommended measures are barely even an inconvenience and are basically just good manners.

Social distancing, frequent hand sanitizing and face mask use in indoor areas, public transport etc.

Thats what I call 'getting on with things'.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Zeb

[fygjam]

3 hours ago, fforest said:

If the PCR test is cycled up enough then everyone would test positive because EVERYONE has corona dna fragments in them.....If the pcr test was cycled down enough then no one would test positive.....Does the news ever say what cycles the pcr tests are run at?........No....... 100% never.......

“Apart from being completely wrong, this comment acts as excellent indicator of a person with
no understanding of PCR, the design of PCR tests or of the high-throughout use of PCR
processes to test human samples in a quality pathology laboratory setting.” He called the
comment “bizarre” and scorned at how it was being used by adversaries of the PCR tests.

This is getting scary, google popped that up (the article the quote came from) at the top of the list.

There is no hard and fast number for the cycle threshold (the cycle count) indicating positive or negative. The CT depends upon the test kit manufacturer, the reagents used, the primers, the probes, the specific parts of the viral genome being tested for and the hardware (thermal cycler) the test is being run on. In the early days it could also depend upon the operator running the test although I believe, in larger testing facilities at least, most of the testing process has been automated.

The manufacturer of a particular test kit will also supply the instructions on how to interpret the results including the CT.

The quote at the beginning came from

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-who-instructions-pcr-guidan-idUSKBN2A429W

The article also includes some links to other articles on PCR. Some may gain benefit from reading...

 

 

[Painter]

Article in today's telegraph....

The Union of France Oenologists have said their members should be prioritised for the covid vaccine, as they can't work without their sense of taste and smell.....

This year's plonk might be vinegar then....

[coxyhog]

27 minutes ago, Painter said:

Article in today's telegraph....

The Union of France Oenologists have said their members should be prioritised for the covid vaccine, as they can't work without their sense of taste and smell.....

This year's plonk might be vinegar then....

Since Brexit & the AZ fiasco I've tried to buy new world wines but it is difficult because there's some Frog & Spanish ones I really like.

 

[Krapow]

Things still going in the right direction in the UK, and also with number more manageable, thankfully the test and trace is working much better, another route back to some sort of normality alongside vaccines.

A total of 18,050 people tested positive for Covid-19 in England at least once in the week to 14 April, according to the latest Test and Trace figures.

This is down 9% on the previous week and is the lowest number since the week to 2 September 2020.

Of the 15,306 people transferred to the Test and Trace system in the week to 14 April, 89.8% were reached and asked to provide details of recent close contacts.

This is up slightly from 88.1% in the previous week.

[roobob]

Interesting development from Aussie.... it seems some front line NSW Medical  Staff ... at the moment the number is 70-80%......are cancelling the AZ vaccine and want to wait for another...like Pfizer.

If this is the case...as these people are on the front line... hopefully all the normal public will be given the reason why and also be given the choice of what vaccine they can take.

The link is a from a News Link...it has comments from the NSW Health Minister but maybe to some it wil not be enough evidence... do make your own mind up on the article.

cheers

Healthcare workers cancelling AstraZeneca jab appointments, waiting for Pfizer (msn.com) 

 

[roobob]

Some say that the Aussies have handled the problem well and have it all under under control but overall they have been sadly lacking in what they have done.  Well it seems they still cannot even get a simple thing like Hotel quarantine right... how hard can it be?? This is happening in more than one state... but at least with the incident in WA they have admitted they stuffed up... but really they should have not.

The link is a News Link ... .it has comments from the WA Premier...the WA Health Minister and the WA President of the AMA. Maybe to some it will not be enough evidence... do make your own mind up on the article.

cheers

WA Health knew virus hotel was 'high-risk' (msn.com)

[lazarus]

Walked my daughter to school this morning. First in-person classes in over 13 months. Secondary schools remain closed.

Things are looking up. Also, getting my 2nd Moderna shot tomorrow.

Still have to be vigilant. There is no vaccine for kids under 16 years old. Kids with underlying conditions (like my daughter with asthma) are at risk for serious illness.

. . .

We Are Turning COVID-19 Into a Young Person’s Disease
Even as cases drop among vaccinated Americans, the coronavirus still can spread among unvaccinated people—who will be disproportionately children.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/04/young-kids-vaccines-covid/618650/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210421&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

... In America, adults are racing headlong into a post-vaccination summer while kids are being left in vaccine limbo. Pfizer’s shot is likely to be authorized for ages 12 to 15 in several weeks’ time, but younger kids may have to wait until the fall or even early 2022 as clinical trials run their course. This “age de-escalation” strategy is typical for clinical trials, but it means this confusing period of vaccinated adults and unvaccinated kids will not be over soon. And the pandemic will start to look quite different.

How different? Vaccination is already changing the landscape of COVID-19 risk by age. In the U.S., hospital admissions have fallen dramatically for adults over 70 who were prioritized for vaccines, but they have remained steady—or have even risen slightly—in younger groups that became eligible more recently. This trend is likely to continue as vaccines reach younger and younger adults. Over the summer, the absolute number of cases may drop as mass vaccination dampens transmission while the relative share of cases among the unvaccinated rises, simply because they are the ones still susceptible. The unvaccinated group will, of course, be disproportionately children. By dint of our vaccine order, COVID-19 will start looking like a disease of the young.

This means vaccines are working, but it also means many Americans are flipping how they think about COVID-19 risk. Adults who spent the past year worrying about their elderly parents are now worrying about their kids instead.

. . .

[Krapow]

Looks like carnage in India at the moment, running out of beds, oxygen, ventilators. 

Plus the numbers being given by Indian authorises are vast undercounts.

 

[Painter]

US adds UK to "do not travel to" list

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/travel-news-covid-green-red-list-international-summer-holidays/amp/

The US State Department has heightened its travel warning against the UK, now categorising it as ‘Level Four: Do Not Travel’. This is the strongest advisory rating, indicating a “very high level of COVID-19”.

 

Some 116 countries have also been reclassified as ‘Do Not Travel’, including Canada, France, Germany and Israel. China and Japan remain at ‘Level 3: Reconsider Travel’.

 

 

Sorry...no idea why text will test your eyesight!

 

[Krapow]

1 minute ago, Painter said:

US adds UK to "do not travel to" list

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/travel-news-covid-green-red-list-international-summer-holidays/amp/

The US State Department has heightened its travel warning against the UK, now categorising it as ‘Level Four: Do Not Travel’. This is the strongest advisory rating, indicating a “very high level of COVID-19”.

 

Some 116 countries have also been reclassified as ‘Do Not Travel’, including Canada, France, Germany and Israel. China and Japan remain at ‘Level 3: Reconsider Travel’.

 

 

Sorry...no idea why text will test your eyesight!

 

Was gonna say that was strange, then i seen Israel on the 'do not travel' list as well, even more strange.  

But China and Japan are a lower level!

[lazarus]

2 hours ago, Krapow said:

Looks like carnage in India at the moment, running out of beds, oxygen, ventilators. 

Plus the numbers being given by Indian authorises are vast undercounts.

 

☠️ 

 

Photos: A Deadly Second Wave of COVID-19 in India

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2021/04/deadly-second-wave-of-covid-19-in-india/618648/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210422&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

[fforest]

2 hours ago, Krapow said:

Was gonna say that was strange, then i seen Israel on the 'do not travel' list as well, even more strange.  

But China and Japan are a lower level!

Does anyone really want to go to the UK anyways?

[Zeb]

8 hours ago, roobob said:

Some say that the Aussies have handled the problem well and have it all under under control but overall they have been sadly lacking in what they have done.

Really ?

Lets look at the Scoreboard -

 

Scource -

https://covidlive.com.au/wa

Western Australia has a population of about 2.6 Million and has recorded 9 Covid deaths in total - so thats under 3.5 deaths per Million of population.

WA's handling of this pandemic in comparison to other areas around the world looks like this -

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

WA    -  Under 3.5     Very Low loss of Lives. Lives almost normal for Months

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The approach taken in Western Australia saved many lives and returned life to very close to normal quickly.

WA voters recognise this and recently returned its Government to power with 69.7% of the two-party vote - a famous victory by any measure.

...................................................................................................................

So WA hasn't achieved perfection seems to be the basis of your comment above they have 'been sadly lacking in what they have done'.

No they haven't been perfect - but they have beaten most other places in the world in protecting their population. The WA population in return support and have rewarded their Government. The WA people quite rightly feel a sense of achievement by their community.

A magnificent effort by all involved in 'Getting on with it'.

Let us all know when you find perfection .

In the meantime most places in the world would give their eyeteeth to have a Scoreboard like the above.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Zeb

[fygjam]

8 hours ago, roobob said:

Some say that the Aussies have handled the problem well and have it all under under control but overall they have been sadly lacking in what they have done.  Well it seems they still cannot even get a simple thing like Hotel quarantine right... how hard can it be?? This is happening in more than one state... but at least with the incident in WA they have admitted they stuffed up... but really they should have not.

The link is a News Link ... .it has comments from the WA Premier...the WA Health Minister and the WA President of the AMA. Maybe to some it will not be enough evidence... do make your own mind up on the article.

cheers

WA Health knew virus hotel was 'high-risk' (msn.com)

Not the only ones.

Sydney COVID quarantine hotel outbreak fears spread to Victoria

There are fears a potential outbreak at a Sydney quarantine hotel have spread to another state as authorities rush to track down contacts.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/sydney-covid-quarantine-hotel-outbreak-fears-spread-to-victoria/news-story/5a26bc2cdf1d8c13baaa9658fc5c067b

 

I put it down to all the idiots screaming "bring the Aussies home".

Basically there are not enough suitable facilities to quarantine incoming arrivals.

Reduce the cap!

 

 

 

[roobob]

2 hours ago, fygjam said:

Not the only ones.

Sydney COVID quarantine hotel outbreak fears spread to Victoria

There are fears a potential outbreak at a Sydney quarantine hotel have spread to another state as authorities rush to track down contacts.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/sydney-covid-quarantine-hotel-outbreak-fears-spread-to-victoria/news-story/5a26bc2cdf1d8c13baaa9658fc5c067b

 

I put it down to all the idiots screaming "bring the Aussies home".

Basically there are not enough suitable facilities to quarantine incoming arrivals.

Reduce the cap!

 

 

 

I suggest you read and comprehend what I said in my post about the hotel quarantine before running to hit your google search. 

I said that it has happened in more than one state and it should not happen in any of them.

All Australians have a right to return to their homeland as the UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Australia is a sign up signatory to.... which says ..." no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country. That is what is occurring now..... aussies are being deprived and have so for over 9 months now. There are facilities available and certainly there is enough facilities to handle the number especially over the 9 months period that this has been going on. Maybe the Govt could have taken over the facilities that the tennis players and their entourages who blatantly jumped the queue used.

cheers 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by roobob

[roobob]

1 hour ago, Zeb said:

Really ?

Lets look at the Scoreboard -

 

Scource -

https://covidlive.com.au/wa

Western Australia has a population of about 2.6 Million and has recorded 9 Covid deaths in total - so thats under 3.5 deaths per Million of population.

WA's handling of this pandemic in comparison to other areas around the world looks like this -

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

WA    -  Under 3.5     Very Low loss of Lives. Lives almost normal for Months

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The approach taken in Western Australia saved many lives and returned life to very close to normal quickly.

WA voters recognise this and recently returned its Government to power with 69.7% of the two-party vote - a famous victory by any measure.

...................................................................................................................

So WA hasn't achieved perfection seems to be the basis of your comment above they have 'been sadly lacking in what they have done'.

No they haven't been perfect - but they have beaten most other places in the world in protecting their population. The WA population in return support and have rewarded their Government. The WA people quite rightly feel a sense of achievement by their community.

A magnificent effort by all involved in 'Getting on with it'.

Let us all know when you find perfection .

In the meantime most places in the world would give their eyeteeth to have a Scoreboard like the above.

 

Nothing what so ever to do with my post about the ineptness of the ones in charge of running the hotel quarantine system.... nothing what so ever at all.

Nice job at editing my post to take it away completely from what I posted about to make it suit your own agenda...... surely you are not that sad and desperate to want to be seen as the forum expert on this matter.... you need to get out more and smell the roses mate.... relax a bit. 

cheers

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by roobob

[Zeb]

13 minutes ago, roobob said:

Nothing what so ever to do with my post about the ineptness of the ones in charge of running the hotel quarantine system.... nothing what so ever at all.

Best wishes in finding 'Perfection'. Australia doesn't offer it.

Best you just stay where you are then.

In doing so you will raise the IQ of both Australia and whatever place you are.

But try to remain positive - this little ditty may help

When you go through life make this your goal - look for the doughnut and not the hole.

555

[fforest]

i feel like a billionaire but im not im an asymptomatic billionaire!

[thumper63]

32 minutes ago, fforest said:

i feel like a billionaire but im not im an asymptomatic billionaire!

All that matters is that we still love ya.

Edited April 23, 2021 by thumper63

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

I suggest you read and comprehend what I said in my post about the hotel quarantine before running to hit your google search. 

I said that it has happened in more than one state and it should not happen in any of them.

All Australians have a right to return to their homeland as the UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Australia is a sign up signatory to.... which says ..." no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country. That is what is occurring now..... aussies are being deprived and have so for over 9 months now. There are facilities available and certainly there is enough facilities to handle the number especially over the 9 months period that this has been going out. Maybe the Govt could have taken over the facilities that the tennis players and their entourages who blatantly jumped the queue used.

cheers 

T

Hmm. You post something from your news feed and it's all grist for the mill in your relentless attempts to bash Western Australia. I post something (just a headline mind you) from my news feed and I'm running off doing google searches. (PS. did you catch the WA state election results and how it reflected on the way the pandemic was being handled in WA?)

You are correct however (and for once), cross contamination between rooms just should not happen. I suggest that all quarantine hotels in all states be closed and all incoming passengers be stopped until a full examination of the facilities has been completed and any shortcomings rectified.

Now I'm sure you had to google (or other search engine) the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It's just a pity you didn't read all of it. Australians are NOT being arbitrarily denied entry. They are not even being denied entry. They just have to wait their turn.

For instance Article 4, paragraph 1 states

1 . In time of public emergency which threatens the life of the nation and the existence of which is officially
proclaimed, the States Parties to the present Covenant may take measures derogating from their
obligations under the present Covenant to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation,
provided that such measures are not inconsistent with their other obligations under international law and do
not involve discrimination solely on the ground of race, colour, sex, language, religion or social origin.

The public emergency which threatens the life of the nation (in fact the entire globe) was officially proclaimed by the very United Nations itself. 

I also think, given the current circumstances, that all signatory states to the convention would see Article 12, paragraph 3 being applicable.

3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by
law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the
rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.

You can continue to repeat your lie that tennis players and their entourages jumped some nonexistent queue and I will continue to point out the lie that it is.

However, as I have said before, if you're so concerned about Australians not being able to return at present, start a Go Fund Me page. Based on the 40 million quarantine cost for 1200 tennis players and associates you'd be looking at about 1.2 billion. I don't think that covers the charter flights either.

As an aside. I notice you don't have an avatar. Could I suggest

 

it's a cherry picker.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by fygjam

[roobob]

2 minutes ago, fygjam said:

Hmm. You post something from your news feed and it's all grist for the mill in your relentless attempts to bash Western Australia. I post something (just a headline mind you) from my news feed and I'm running off doing google searches. (PS. did you catch the WA state election results and how it reflected on the way the pandemic was being handled in WA?)

You are correct however (and for once), cross contamination between rooms just should not happen. I suggest that all quarantine hotels in all states be closed and all incoming passengers be stopped until a full examination of the facilities has been completed and any shortcomings rectified.

Now I'm sure you had to google (or other search engine) the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It's just a pity you didn't read all of it. Australian are NOT being arbitrarily denied entry. They are not even being denied entry. They just have to wait their turn.

For instance Article 4, paragraph 1 states

1 . In time of public emergency which threatens the life of the nation and the existence of which is officially
proclaimed, the States Parties to the present Covenant may take measures derogating from their
obligations under the present Covenant to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation,
provided that such measures are not inconsistent with their other obligations under international law and do
not involve discrimination solely on the ground of race, colour, sex, language, religion or social origin.

The public emergency which threatens the life of the nation (in fact the entire globe) was officially proclaimed by the very United Nations itself. 

I also think, given the current circumstances, that all signatory states to the convention would see Article 12, paragraph 3 being applicable.

3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by
law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the
rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.

You can continue to repeat your lie that tennis players and their entourages jumped some nonexistent queue and I will continue to point out the lie that it is.

However, as I have said before, if you're so concerned about Australians not being able to return at present, start a Go Fund Me page. Based on the 40 million quarantine cost for 1200 tennis players and associates you'd be looking at about 1.2 billion. I don't think that covers the charter flights either.

As an aside. I notice you don't have an avatar. Could I suggest

 

it's a cherry picker.

 

Again look at my posts ...I am talking about Australia as a whole .... I bet you had easy access to the cherrypicker...lol

Thanks for pointing that out and proving me correct with the part you highlighted in blue.

By letting in foreign actors and tennis players and their entourages it is clear that the Aussie Govt has gone against the charter it signed up to and the ones bearing the brunt of this are the aussie citizens that have been stranded overseas for over 9 months now and being refused access to their own country.

It seems that you have more concern for foreign queue jumpers than stranded fellow aussie citizens ..... that is sad.... very sad.

cheers

Oh .... I have asked a few times..... are you a born and bred Sandgroper.

[fygjam]

19 minutes ago, roobob said:

Again look at my posts ...I am talking about Australia as a whole .... I bet you had easy access to the cherrypicker...lol

Thanks for pointing that out and proving me correct with the part you highlighted in blue.

By letting in foreign actors and tennis players and their entourages it is clear that the Aussie Govt has gone against the charter it signed up to and the ones bearing the brunt of this are the aussie citizens that have been stranded overseas for over 9 months now and being refused access to their own country.

It seems that you have more concern for foreign queue jumpers than stranded fellow aussie citizens ..... that is sad.... very sad.

cheers

Oh .... I have asked a few times..... are you a born and bred Sandgroper.

There was no queue therefore there were no queue jumpers!

I've said before, put up some your own dosh to fund their mandatory quarantine, show us you're genuine.

To show how generous I am, here's a business idea for you to help you fund it

Isan style furniture flat pack. Just don't tell Ikea.

 

[Jambo]

5 hours ago, fforest said:

Does anyone really want to go to the UK anyways?

I do!

I miss my family members in Scotland I have not seen for close to 3 years.

ps.

Could you lot shut the f**k up about Australia. I am sure I am not alone in being bored to tears reading you two serving insults backwards and forwards.  As we Scots ( even plastic Cockney Scots like me) would say "Getafuck!"

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Jambo