COVID 19 GLOBAL

[Nightcrawler]

2 minutes ago, roobob said:

True what you say mate.... but I think this one is here to stay ..... hopefully not.... but all signs at the moment it is.

cheers

I think moreso until the whole world has been able to deal with the current pandemic. Just as UK seems to be getting on top of things, other countries like India and Thailand for that matter are getting a new wave. I fear that the worst is yet to come in India, and it could be at a very heavy cost for their citizens. They are already struggling for hospital beds and treatment, and full vaccination seems a long way away. 

My personal view is that many countries will keep their isolation policies going to keep infections spread from other countries to a minimum. 

 

[roobob]

40 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

I think moreso until the whole world has been able to deal with the current pandemic. Just as UK seems to be getting on top of things, other countries like India and Thailand for that matter are getting a new wave. I fear that the worst is yet to come in India, and it could be at a very heavy cost for their citizens. They are already struggling for hospital beds and treatment, and full vaccination seems a long way away. 

My personal view is that many countries will keep their isolation policies going to keep infections spread from other countries to a minimum. 

 

Yes the UK has done well and along with the US in the run out the vaccine . Some minor hiccups with the vaccine but that has to be expected when new ones are introduced.

My personal view is that the virus is here to stay...vaccines are now available and are running out. I understand that the majority think lockdowns are the way to go.... but with the runout of vaccines.... the research facilities along with the expert medical and scientific brains we have in this modern era and the money that has been thrown at it.... it seems the only solution they continually come up with is lock all down.

My point is...after all this time...why not look at alternatives.

cheers

Edited April 23, 2021 by roobob

[lazarus]

Just now, roobob said:

Yes the UK has done well and along with the US in the run out the vaccine . Some minor hiccups with the vaccine but that has to be expected when a new ones are introduced.

My personal view is that the virus is here to stay...vaccines are now available and are running out. I understand that the majority think lockdowns are the way to go.... but with the runout of vaccines.... the research facilities along with the expert medical and scientific brains we have in this modern era and the money that has been thrown at it.... it seems the only solution they continually come up with is lock all down.

My point is...after all this time...why not look at alternatives.

cheers

Such as...?

[Yessongs]

Well, at we have something positive here locally right Lazarus? 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-goes-worst-first-virus-001356694.html

[roobob]

39 minutes ago, lazarus said:

Such as...?

Open up.... Test ..Trace ..Isolate... to start with.... let people get back to some resemblance of a normal life.

It has been over a year now... all you continually do is go the doom and gloom and never put out an alternative

So to ask you the same question...what would you do.... sit back and wait for years to come to the world is fully vaccinated?? Is that your solution??

Really why are people like you worried when others throw out alternative ideas that are different to yours?? All of us are in the same situation... so what is the problem when people express a different opinion to others???

cheers  

Edited April 23, 2021 by roobob

[Painter]

58 minutes ago, roobob said:

Open up.... Test ..Trace ..Isolate... to start with.... let people get back to some resemblance of a normal life.

It has been over a year now... all you continually do is go the doom and gloom and never put out an alternative

So to ask you the same question...what would you do.... sit back and wait for years to come to the world is fully vaccinated?? Is that your solution??

Really why are people like you worried when others throw out alternative ideas that are different to yours?? All of us are in the same situation... so what is the problem when people express a different opinion to others???

cheers  

Test, trace and isolate is great, and is/has been used in many countries. However, a question back to you...

Track and trace has been shown to work well with small numbers. When numbers of infections become too great, track and trace just can't cope.

What sort of numbers of new cases, in your opinion, can track and trace cope with, or should be able to  cope with? 100? 500? 1000? 

What happens when case numbers go above this number, and numbers keep rising?

Edited April 23, 2021 by Painter

[lazarus]

6 hours ago, roobob said:

Open up.... Test ..Trace ..Isolate... to start with.... let people get back to some resemblance of a normal life.

It has been over a year now... all you continually do is go the doom and gloom and never put out an alternative

So to ask you the same question...what would you do.... sit back and wait for years to come to the world is fully vaccinated?? Is that your solution??

Really why are people like you worried when others throw out alternative ideas that are different to yours?? All of us are in the same situation... so what is the problem when people express a different opinion to others???

cheers  

Geez. I asked a simple question...& you answered it.

Then you went off on me. You don't know anything about me, or about how I live my life and take care of my family in the US & Thailand.

Maybe get a life, eh?

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by lazarus

[fforest]

10 hours ago, john luke said:

https://lloydspharmacy.com/pages/viraleze-antiviral-nasal-spray

Forget it......They are not interested in any other solutions or medications AT ALL ....Only the dna/gene vaccine, masks, lockdowns, social distancing,tracking, and nothing else.....

Edited April 23, 2021 by fforest

[Krapow]

6 hours ago, roobob said:

Yes the UK has done well and along with the US in the run out the vaccine . Some minor hiccups with the vaccine but that has to be expected when new ones are introduced.

My personal view is that the virus is here to stay...vaccines are now available and are running out. I understand that the majority think lockdowns are the way to go.... but with the runout of vaccines.... the research facilities along with the expert medical and scientific brains we have in this modern era and the money that has been thrown at it.... it seems the only solution they continually come up with is lock all down.

My point is...after all this time...why not look at alternatives.

cheers

Absolutely Covid is here to stay, no chance of it being eradicated in a global world. 

I've said for a while now that the end is in sight. By end i mean it will be managed like other respiratory virus's like flu, due to the vaccines and people using common sense re hygiene, which is no bad thing anyway.

Different places are at different 'stages', places like Israel, UK etc are clearly doing well, then you look at India or Brazil.

Which validates the use of lockdowns when the were required, when there was no vaccines, or only beginning to be rolled out. Had the UK not locked down in December when they were posting figures of 60,000 cases and near 2000 deaths a day, exponential growth, then it clearly would have got completely out of control, UK's health service would have been like India's is now, there would have been a huge death toll, and instability in the country, at least!

But lockdowns cause so much damage, economic, health, physical and mental etc. There's just no way Boris Johnson would have implemented them unless he felt he had no choice, re deaths and collapse of health service, country near imploding. 

The UK are in a very different place now, the lockdown has given time for the vaccines to bed in. I honestly don't think we'll see another full national lockdown like we've just had. I don't think there will ever be another need now. Sure cases will go up as we open up, and when it goes to winter again, such as other respiratory viruses. But due to the vaccines, i don't see the hospitalisations or deaths ever getting to the stage where a nation lockdown would have to be considered again in the UK. Possibly regional short sharp lock ones if needed, and managed with test and trace due to small numbers, though i'm even doubtful about that after this winter.

So yea, i agree, the virus is here to stay, lockdowns served their purpose at that time, basically saved lives and health services until we had vaccines like we do now, so now if we manage opening up with the vaccine roll out correctly, not a free for all it's all over like Chile did, then i just don't see the UK having to go into another national lockdown. 

[fygjam]

8 hours ago, Painter said:

Test, trace and isolate is great, and is/has been used in many countries. However, a question back to you...

Track and trace has been shown to work well with small numbers. When numbers of infections become too great, track and trace just can't cope.

What sort of numbers of new cases, in your opinion, can track and trace cope with, or should be able to  cope with? 100? 500? 1000? 

What happens when case numbers go above this number, and numbers keep rising?

Great question.

I wonder if we'll get an answer.

 

[roobob]

7 hours ago, lazarus said:

Geez. I asked a simple question...& you answered it.

Then you went off on me. You don't know anything about me, or about how I live my life and take care of my family in the US & Thailand.

Maybe get a life, eh?

 

You asked a simple question and I answered it.

I asked the same simple question back to you where you do not answer. I did not/have not ask you anything about your personal life or about your family as it is none of my business to know. To tell you the truth...I do not even know why you would even bring that up.

All I said is why are people like you worried if others have different views and think other alternatives should be looked at for the problem on hand.

cheers

 

 

 

[roobob]

3 hours ago, Krapow said:

Absolutely Covid is here to stay, no chance of it being eradicated in a global world. 

I've said for a while now that the end is in sight. By end i mean it will be managed like other respiratory virus's like flu, due to the vaccines and people using common sense re hygiene, which is no bad thing anyway.

Different places are at different 'stages', places like Israel, UK etc are clearly doing well, then you look at India or Brazil.

Which validates the use of lockdowns when the were required, when there was no vaccines, or only beginning to be rolled out. Had the UK not locked down in December when they were posting figures of 60,000 cases and near 2000 deaths a day, exponential growth, then it clearly would have got completely out of control, UK's health service would have been like India's is now, there would have been a huge death toll, and instability in the country, at least!

But lockdowns cause so much damage, economic, health, physical and mental etc. There's just no way Boris Johnson would have implemented them unless he felt he had no choice, re deaths and collapse of health service, country near imploding. 

The UK are in a very different place now, the lockdown has given time for the vaccines to bed in. I honestly don't think we'll see another full national lockdown like we've just had. I don't think there will ever be another need now. Sure cases will go up as we open up, and when it goes to winter again, such as other respiratory viruses. But due to the vaccines, i don't see the hospitalisations or deaths ever getting to the stage where a nation lockdown would have to be considered again in the UK. Possibly regional short sharp lock ones if needed, and managed with test and trace due to small numbers, though i'm even doubtful about that after this winter.

So yea, i agree, the virus is here to stay, lockdowns served their purpose at that time, basically saved lives and health services until we had vaccines like we do now, so now if we manage opening up with the vaccine roll out correctly, not a free for all it's all over like Chile did, then i just don't see the UK having to go into another national lockdown. 

Great post...thanks for the answer.

cheers

[lazarus]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

You asked a simple question and I answered it.

I asked the same simple question back to you where you do not answer. I did not/have not ask you anything about your personal life or about your family as it is none of my business to know. To tell you the truth...I do not even know why you would even bring that up.

All I said is why are people like you worried if others have different views and think other alternatives should be looked at for the problem on hand.

cheers

No, you asked the question and then danced around it in your regular derogatory fashion.

But hey...why not stir up the pot when you can.

Maybe it's you who cannot accept "different views"...? 

[roobob]

1 minute ago, lazarus said:

No, you asked the question and then danced around it in your regular derogatory fashion.

But hey...why not stir up the pofor the problem when you can.

Maybe it's you who cannot accept "different views"...? 

Let me apologise to you and others like you for causing you so much worry due to others having and expressing  different views to yours and think other alternatives should be looked at for the problem at hand.  Again... it is beyond me why you even mentioned private lives and family as nothing has been said along those lines. 

 No problem....I was happy to answer your question...obvious you are not happy to reciprocate.... fair enough.... we move along.... the world will not end.

Have a nice day.

cheers

[lazarus]

28 minutes ago, roobob said:

Let me apologise to you and others like you for causing you so much worry due to others having and expressing  different views to yours and think other alternatives should be looked at for the problem at hand.  Again... it is beyond me why you even mentioned private lives and family as nothing has been said along those lines. 

 No problem....I was happy to answer your question...obvious you are not happy to reciprocate.... fair enough.... we move along.... the world will not end.

I'll accept that as your last word and move on.

Is it time to ditch your face mask? This is the story from California USA...

Should California end its outdoor mask mandate? Bay Area experts weigh in
https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Should-California-end-its-outdoor-mask-mandate-16122486.php

Coronavirus cases have dropped sharply. A majority of California adults are vaccinated. And the risk outside is low. So why do we still need a pandemic restriction that everyone seems to hate — the outdoor mask mandate?

Many experts and advocates are asking just that.

“The emerging consensus seems to be that we should end outdoor mask mandates in the next few weeks,” contends Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert with UCSF and one of the earliest and most vocal proponents for using masks to curb the spread of COVID-19.

She’s become among the most vocal critics of outdoor masking in recent weeks, joining a cohort of experts from across the country who suggest that they’re unnecessary and overly restrictive at this stage of the pandemic...

... An analysis of five global studies conducted by UCSF infectious disease experts determined that less than 10% of all coronavirus infections occurred outdoors. The odds of indoor transmission are nearly 19 times greater. Dr. Nooshin Razani, one of the UCSF researchers, said the outdoor number could be even lower since many documented infections occurred over extended time at construction sites and summer camps.

But the UCSF paper comes with a caveat: Relaxed mitigation measures could make outdoor settings less safe...

... Even though California is doing well with low case counts and hospitalizations, spikes elsewhere could quickly change the picture, as “the virus doesn’t respect state borders,” said Swartzberg of UC Berkeley.

“I would err on that side that there still be a mandate for the outside until some of these (vaccination) figures get closer to what we might consider to be herd immunity,” said Dr. Stephen Shortell, former dean of the UC Berkeley School of Public Health. “We’re not quite where we need to be.”

The risks outweigh the benefits, particularly as we enter a period when vaccinated people may be relaxing other protective behaviors around the unvaccinated, he said...

. . .

Really... it's "up to you"...unless the authorities will give you grief.

[fygjam]

11 hours ago, roobob said:

Open up.... Test ..Trace ..Isolate... to start with.... let people get back to some resemblance of a normal life.

News flash. TTI has been used as part of infection control in many places for more than a year. Not really an alternative, more a supplement. It works a lot better when used with lockdowns because a lockdown ISOLATES the outbreak to a smaller geographic area.

Question.

How long did it take to bring last year's major Victorian outbreak under control using TTI plus lockdowns?

Question.

What infection control measures were used during the NSW Northern Suburbs outbreak last year?

Question.

How long would it take to bring the current situation in India under control using just TTI?

Question.

In the NSW Northern Suburbs outbreak mentioned above they were testing at over 60,000 tests per day (at at least $AU100 per test). How many daily tests would be required in India? At what cost?

 

2 hours ago, roobob said:

I did not/have not ask you anything about your personal life or about your family as it is none of my business to know.

 

23 hours ago, roobob said:

Oh .... I have asked a few times..... are you a born and bred Sandgroper.

 

22 hours ago, roobob said:

So again..... are you a born and bred sandgroper??

You keep asking and I keep ignoring because you're right, it's none of your damn business! Oh, and it's not relevant to the thread either!

 

[Jambo]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

Let me apologise to you and others like you for causing you so much worry due to others having and expressing  different views to yours and think other alternatives should be looked at for the problem at hand.  Again... it is beyond me why you even mentioned private lives and family as nothing has been said along those lines. 

 No problem....I was happy to answer your question...obvious you are not happy to reciprocate.... fair enough.... we move along.... the world will not end.

Have a nice day.

cheers

[Jambo]

57 minutes ago, lazarus said:

I'll accept that as your last word and move on.

Is it time to ditch your face mask? This is the story from California USA...

Should California end its outdoor mask mandate? Bay Area experts weigh in
https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Should-California-end-its-outdoor-mask-mandate-16122486.php

Coronavirus cases have dropped sharply. A majority of California adults are vaccinated. And the risk outside is low. So why do we still need a pandemic restriction that everyone seems to hate — the outdoor mask mandate?

Many experts and advocates are asking just that.

“The emerging consensus seems to be that we should end outdoor mask mandates in the next few weeks,” contends Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert with UCSF and one of the earliest and most vocal proponents for using masks to curb the spread of COVID-19.

She’s become among the most vocal critics of outdoor masking in recent weeks, joining a cohort of experts from across the country who suggest that they’re unnecessary and overly restrictive at this stage of the pandemic...

... An analysis of five global studies conducted by UCSF infectious disease experts determined that less than 10% of all coronavirus infections occurred outdoors. The odds of indoor transmission are nearly 19 times greater. Dr. Nooshin Razani, one of the UCSF researchers, said the outdoor number could be even lower since many documented infections occurred over extended time at construction sites and summer camps.

But the UCSF paper comes with a caveat: Relaxed mitigation measures could make outdoor settings less safe...

... Even though California is doing well with low case counts and hospitalizations, spikes elsewhere could quickly change the picture, as “the virus doesn’t respect state borders,” said Swartzberg of UC Berkeley.

“I would err on that side that there still be a mandate for the outside until some of these (vaccination) figures get closer to what we might consider to be herd immunity,” said Dr. Stephen Shortell, former dean of the UC Berkeley School of Public Health. “We’re not quite where we need to be.”

The risks outweigh the benefits, particularly as we enter a period when vaccinated people may be relaxing other protective behaviors around the unvaccinated, he said...

. . .

Really... it's "up to you"...unless the authorities will give you grief.

 

[Jambo]

39 minutes ago, fygjam said:

News flash. TTI has been used as part of infection control in many places for more than a year. Not really an alternative, more a supplement. It works a lot better when used with lockdowns because a lockdown ISOLATES the outbreak to a smaller geographic area.

Question.

How long did it take to bring last year's major Victorian outbreak under control using TTI plus lockdowns?

Question.

What infection control measures were used during the NSW Northern Suburbs outbreak last year?

Question.

How long would it take to bring the current situation in India under control using just TTI?

Question.

In the NSW Northern Suburbs outbreak mentioned above they were testing at over 60,000 tests per day (at at least $AU100 per test). How many daily tests would be required in India? At what cost?

 

 

 

You keep asking and I keep ignoring because you're right, it's none of your damn business! Oh, and it's not relevant to the thread either!

 

[fygjam]

6 minutes ago, Jambo said:

[roobob]

Once again the spotlight is on the ineptness of the Govt running of the hotel quarantine system in Aussie land.  

This time the spotlight is being shined by the Australian Medical Association President. 

Breaches still happening near on 12 months down the track ..... you would think that they would know what to do by now.... heck they could not even select the right hotel in this case.

cheers 

Western Australia Covid lockdown: hotel quarantine failures condemned as McGowan urges Morrison to ‘step up and help’ (msn.com)

[Painter]

13 hours ago, Painter said:

Test, trace and isolate is great, and is/has been used in many countries. However, a question back to you...

Track and trace has been shown to work well with small numbers. When numbers of infections become too great, track and trace just can't cope.

What sort of numbers of new cases, in your opinion, can track and trace cope with, or should be able to  cope with? 100? 500? 1000? 

What happens when case numbers go above this number, and numbers keep rising?

 

5 hours ago, fygjam said:

Great question.

I wonder if we'll get an answer.

 

I guess not....

[fygjam]

20 minutes ago, Painter said:

 

I guess not....

Surprising really, that one so vociferous becomes so reticent.

 

[lazarus]

2 hours ago, Jambo said:

 

https://www.stickboybkk.com/news/mask-up-in-surat-thani-or-face-20000-baht-fine/

Edited April 24, 2021 by lazarus

[Krapow]

14 hours ago, fforest said:

Forget it......They are not interested in any other solutions or medications AT ALL ....Only the dna/gene vaccine, masks, lockdowns, social distancing,tracking, and nothing else.....

• US health regulators have lifted an 11-day pause on the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 jab, but will add a warning label about the potential for extremely rare blood clots. It comes after Europe's drug regulator also ended restrictions on the J&J jab this week