COVID 19 GLOBAL

[Horizondave]

10 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

More likely to have underlying health conditions ( diabetes etc ) and weaker immune systems 

One day we will probably get a very detailed account of why people died/are dying of Covid based on every conceivable medical and biological reason.

For we all we know old people could be dying not just because of underlying medical conditions but because their testosterone levels are reduced. Now that is just one example of the difference between young and old in men especially but it can not be discounted as no one has their finger on the exact reasons, those reasons will one day be finely analysed and confirmed, just not yet.

[fygjam]

23 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

More likely to have underlying health conditions ( diabetes etc ) and weaker immune systems 

Except it's an overactive immune system which causes the inflammation/cytokine storms which is why it has to be toned down with steroids.

I don't know if the immune system influences blood clot formation one way or the other.

 

[Evil Penevil]

1 hour ago, Stillearly said:

More likely to have underlying health conditions ( diabetes etc ) and weaker immune systems 

That's basically the answer.

49 minutes ago, fygjam said:

Except it's an overactive immune system which causes the inflammation/cytokine storms which is why it has to be toned down with steroids.

I don't know if the immune system influences blood clot formation one way or the other.

The immune system not only weakens with age but also functions less precisely.

"The explanation for the generally heightened risk to the elderly, but also for the fact that Covid-19 kills many younger people even as some seniors survive, lies in a growing understanding of 'immunosenescence.' Immunologists have identified some of the specific ways the immune system changes with age, allowing them to go beyond the simple assertion that it weakens.

'Older people are not as good at reacting to microorganisms they haven’t encountered before,' said physician and immunobiologist Janko Nikolich-Zugich of the University of Arizona College of Medicine. He calls it 'the twilight of immunity.'"

You can read the full article here: What explains Covid-19’s lethality for the elderly? Scientists look to ‘twilight’ of the immune system

More relevant excerpts from the article (my bold highlights )

"Our immune systems have two sets of defenses against viruses and other pathogens: a first-line army of cells, called leukocytes, that attack invading microbes within minutes to hours, and a second-line force of precisely targeted antibodies and T cells that surge to the battle front as late as several days after.

"With advancing age, the body has fewer T cells, which produce virus-fighting chemicals. By puberty, the thymus is producing tenfold fewer T cells than it did in childhood, Nikolich-Zugich said; by age 40 or 50, there is another tenfold drop.

"That leaves the body depleted of T cells that have not yet been programmed to defend against a specific microbe. Fewer such “naïve T cells” means fewer able to be deployed against a never-before-seen microbe.

“We just have fewer soldiers dealing with attackers we’ve never experienced before, like the new coronavirus,” Nikolich-Zugich said. (The body does retain the “memory T cells” that learned to fight attackers in youth, which is why immunization against smallpox and many other viral disease lasts decades.)

"Antibodies are made by B cells, and their decline is less precipitous than the fall-off in T cells. But old B cells, like old factories, can’t produce as much of their product — antibodies — as when they were new. Specifically, they have lower levels of the molecule that rearranges their genome so as to produce never-before-seen antibodies to a never-before-seen virus.

"As if old age weren’t cruel enough, it brings one more change to the immune system: It slows down how quickly natural killer cells and other first responders hand off the defense to activated T cells and B cells. “This initial response remains in overdrive,” Nikolich-Zugich said. The core of that response is a fusillade of inflammatory molecules called cytokines.

"That fusillade attacks the lungs and causes acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), a common cause of Covid-19 deaths.

"The cytokine barrage varies somewhat by sex, however. In a study published last month, Kuchel and colleagues showed that older men had, on average, more cytokine-producing cells than older women, who had more and better B cells and T cells.

"That might explain the apparent, but still tentative, sex-based differences in the Covid-19 epidemic, with elderly men generally faring worse than elderly women. Hobbled B and T cells leave the body with fewer anti-coronavirus defenses.

"Immunosenescence spells bad news if the new coronavirus continues to circulate, even at sub-pandemic rates, because it suggests that older people who have survived Covid-19 may not have robust immunity should they be exposed to the virus again.

"With the flu, younger people have a stronger 'immune memory' than older people — their T cells and B cells primed to attack if a flu virus they contracted decades ago returns. If immune memory for coronavirus resembles that for flu, Kuchel said, then “young people will be much more protected when it comes back.”

Edited June 28, 2020 by Evil Penevil

[lazarus]

This is what I have witnessed while out and about the last month or so, especially at the beach in California on warm days.
Lots of teenagers and college age people hanging out close together, drinking, and playing games with shared equipment.
But not just young people -- multiple families with kids -- no social distancing, no masks.
The recent spike in cases is really no surprise.

Young people driving spike in coronavirus cases, health officials say

Health officials are imploring young people to wear masks and practice social distancing as coronavirus transmission among younger Americans continued to drive record outbreaks in several states.

The pleas come as governors in Texas and Florida instituted new limits on bars and alcohol consumption to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus, citing the skyrocketing number of young people who are contracting it. At the White House Friday, Vice President Mike Pence and other members of the Trump administration's coronavirus task force, in its first briefing in weeks, urged young people to take the virus more seriously.

"Younger Americans have a particular responsibility to make sure that they're not carrying the coronavirus into settings where they would expose the most vulnerable," Pence said.

Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said younger people are often asymptomatic or have mild symptoms but can easily spread the virus to older or immune compromised patients.

While the virus is most dangerous to the elderly, it can be devastating to younger victims as well, health professionals said. Younger coronavirus patients are a widening percentage of total coronavirus hospitalizations, with those in the 18 to 49 age group growing from about 27% of hospitalizations the week ending March 7 to 35% last week, CDC figures show...

story:  https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Young-people-urged-to-take-virus-more-seriously-15370998.php

[fforest]

 

[lazarus]

555...no surprise here:

The data is in: Fox News may have kept millions from taking the coronavirus threat seriously

Three serious research efforts have put numerical weight — yes, data-driven evidence — behind what many suspected all along: Americans who relied on Fox News, or similar right-wing sources, were duped as the coronavirus began its deadly spread.

Dangerously duped.

The studies “paint a picture of a media ecosystem that amplifies misinformation, entertains conspiracy theories and discourages audiences from taking concrete steps to protect themselves and others,” wrote my colleague Christopher Ingraham in an analysis last week.

Here’s the reality, now backed by numbers:  (hint...see next post below for report)

Those who relied on mainstream sources — the network evening newscasts or national newspapers that President Trump constantly blasts as “fake news” — got an accurate assessment of the pandemic’s risks. Those were the news consumers who were more likely to respond accordingly, protecting themselves and others against the disease that has now killed more than 123,000 in the United States with no end in sight...

 

more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-data-is-in-fox-news-may-have-kept-millions-from-taking-the-coronavirus-threat-seriously/2020/06/26/60d88aa2-b7c3-11ea-a8da-693df3d7674a_story.html

Edited June 28, 2020 by lazarus

[KhunDon]

12 minutes ago, fforest said:

 

I think he a member of this forum. 🤔

[lazarus]

Believe it or not?

A matter of life, or possible death. Academia -- Harvard Kennedy School -- weighs in. 

. . .

The causes and consequences of COVID-19 misperceptions: Understanding the role of news and social media

https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/the-causes-and-consequences-of-covid-19-misperceptions-understanding-the-role-of-news-and-social-media/

We investigate the relationship between media consumption, misinformation, and important attitudes and behaviours during the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. We find that comparatively more misinformation circulates on Twitter, while news media tends to reinforce public health recommendations like social distancing. We find that exposure to social media is associated with misperceptions regarding basic facts about COVID-19 while the inverse is true for news media. These misperceptions are in turn associated with lower compliance with social distancing measures. We thus draw a clear link from misinformation circulating on social media, notably Twitter, to behaviours and attitudes that potentially magnify the scale and lethality of COVID-19.

. . .

The Relation between Media Consumption and Misinformation at the Outset of the SARS-CoV-2 Pandemic in the US

https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/April19_FORMATTED_COVID-19-Survey.pdf

Implications
Public understanding of needed preventative measures and rejection of bogus ones is important because
SARS-CoV-2 is highly contagious and potentially lethal (cdc.gov). Pollsters have identified partisan
differences in views on SARS-CoV-2. In particular, a number of March 2020 polls showed that Republicans
were less worried than were Democrats about exposure to the virus (Gallup 2020), less likely to consider
the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak a major health threat (Pew 2020), and more likely to approve of President
Donald Trump’s handling of the “coronavirus pandemic” (Marist, 2020). Like this work, our early March
data registered differences tied to partisanship in their concern about SARS-CoV-2, specifically that
Republicans were less knowledgeable about the relative lethality of SARS-CoV-2. In addition, our data
suggested an association between exposure to some kinds of media, conservative and social media in
particular, and being misinformed, associations that persist when partisanship is considered. Our data
warrant five recommendations.

[Horizondave]

20 minutes ago, fforest said:

 

Kind of agree with the guy, he certainly doesn't need to be muzzled, a face mask would never cover the fact that he acts like a mad dog.......

[fforest]

2 minutes ago, Horizondave said:

Kind of agree with the guy, he certainly doesn't need to be muzzled, a face mask would never cover the fact that he acts like a mad dog.......

Well he is right about one thing....Covid has very little to do with a disease....And every thing to do with taking rights away...

[fygjam]

4 minutes ago, fforest said:

Well he is right about one thing....Covid has very little to do with a disease....And every thing to do with taking rights away...

Actually Covid or Covid-19 to be precise has everything to do with disease. It's the name given to the disease caused by infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Please try and be factual!

 

[Lemondropkid]

3 hours ago, KhunDon said:

My local is 14 miles from my home, but  I haven’t been in since late January. The pub is tiny and narrow and it would be impossible to stay 1mt apart, let alone 2mt. Even if it did open next month, I’d be steering clear of going in for several months yet. Pity really, because it’s a fantastic little freehold pub with very friendly local customers and we always have a great laugh in “complaints corner”.

Everyone takes the mickey out of everyone else and the banter flies too and fro, but never any nasty stuff. Most beers are from small breweries and the wines are always good and the landlord lays on free food on Sunday evenings and stands his round as well. 
I miss it. 😢

 

Sounds like the perfect pub- aside from the 14 miles away part🙂

I really fear for the small independent pubs like yours and how they will survive . And you are right again even at 1 metre,  not going to be practical or economic for many to open. Closest thing I have is a micro pub that puts on 4 casks from small & local brewers. 

 They are going to reopen mid July but don't see at 1 metre it working out for them. It will take a  sudden steep fall in the infection rate and the scrapping of social distancing to save them I fear. 

[lazarus]

28 minutes ago, fforest said:

Well he is right about one thing....Covid has very little to do with a disease....And every thing to do with taking rights away...

I hope COVID-19 doesn't stop Santa Claus from coming dumping down your chimney at Christmas.
Lumps of coal...right.

I mean...he has a right to do that, right?

Edited June 28, 2020 by lazarus

[dcfc2007]

13 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

I take it that you don't have any kids or grandkids?

It's not that simple. A lot of parents do not want to send their kids back to school until September.. it's not just about teachers. People ultimately should have the right to make a judgement about putting themselves at risk, not just employers who have laid off thousands of workers. It's a two way street with different parameters involved.

C19 is a new virus with little known about it when it first reached the shores of the UK but it was known to spread very rapidly and data from the Wuhan outbreak was all that was available. There was a real.risk that the NHS would be unable to cope with a major influx of patients. The government had little choice but to plan for the worst scenario in the event that existing hospitals would not be able to cope and not have the right number and quality of PPE equipment and ventilators. 

As the Virus also made its way into Italy, the UK saw the effects that the virus was having on resources and the high death rates. It would not be long before the UK would be in the same danger.

As Scientist, medical specialists and politicians have learned more about the virus, it has become easier to deal with through testing and monitoring and can be used in the event of another pandemic in the future and there will be at least one every century.  Not to mention the possibilities of strain mutations and a second or third wave. Scientists do not know for sure whether a person who has had the virus can catch it again and pass it on whilst appearing to be asymptomatic.

Many people are returning to work and essential services have all been carried out during the first few months, with April/May being the height of infection and death rates.

People that cannot make a car journey or walk to work will be forced into packed buses trains and tubes where they are most likely to be at risk of both getting the virus and passing it on especially in London and other major cities.

I disagree with you entirely that we should carry on as before the outbreak and that could be disastrous by causing a reverse in lockdown which will cost the economy even more in the longer term. 

The easing of the lockdown in phases is the correct way to go, monitoring each phase to analyse the risks and benefits before further easing. We are not yet ready for normality, but a series of new norms. 

Why do you think a place like Pattaya is so slow to open up, when there are zero reported cases?. It is because there are lots of factors to consider

But countries in the rest of the world also  have to take their time in opening back up. 

C19 made its way across the globe via mainly sir travel..

Airlines may not resume many of their scheduled flights until September and have laid off thousands of staff both in the sir and on the ground. Even when they start to resume, many people may not want to travel on a plane for hours sitting a few inches away from a stranger. They are not ready as many other services are not ready, nor should they be. 

What you might wish for any many of us would like, is to resume normality now, but that is not possible and for many good reasons.  It's not going to happen.

It maybe different for you in Ireland, but that is a small place with fairly low infection rates. That cannot be compared with the UK as a whole let alone a vast country like the USA with rising numbers of infection.

We will have to agree to disagree, i'm afraid and we will have to rely upon medical experts and government departments to decide what is the best course of action. The government will be only too aware of the economical impact of this Pandemic

Sorry for the rather long reply, and would not blame anyone for not reading it all

Why does having kids and grandkids make your opinion more valid? The unions are holding the country to ransom, there are few recorded cases of child to adult transmission of Covid-19.

Children are nowhere near as infectious with covid as adults, and the death rate of children with covid is so low it has actually puzzled the 'scientists'.

The last time I checked there two deaths in the UK of children under 15, terribly sad, but no reason to disrupt the education of millions of children. 

The truth is that the teaching unions are dominated by far-left, remainiac, momentum nutters. The main opponent to reopen the schools was Ellie Sharp. 

She is a teacher and a union rep who was the most vocal opponent. What she wasn't telling people was that she's a momentum member and Corbynista scumbag. 

Open the schools in August and get the kdis eduction back on track. Any teachers that refuse to go back should be sacked, that simple. 

 

https://order-order.com/2020/05/22/sky-news-gets-there-eventually/

[Nightcrawler]

48 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

Why does having kids and grandkids make your opinion more valid? The unions are holding the country to ransom, there are few recorded cases of child to adult transmission of Covid-19.

Children are nowhere near as infectious with covid as adults, and the death rate of children with covid is so low it has actually puzzled the 'scientists'.

The last time I checked there two deaths in the UK of children under 15, terribly sad, but no reason to disrupt the education of millions of children. 

The truth is that the teaching unions are dominated by far-left, remainiac, momentum nutters. The main opponent to reopen the schools was Ellie Sharp. 

She is a teacher and a union rep who was the most vocal opponent. What she wasn't telling people was that she's a momentum member and Corbynista scumbag. 

Open the schools in August and get the kdis eduction back on track. Any teachers that refuse to go back should be sacked, that simple. 

 

https://order-order.com/2020/05/22/sky-news-gets-there-eventually/

So really your beef is with the left ?

You should try writing to the government and ask them to sack all these left wing teachers who don't want to go back. There is a major shortage of teachers so there will be even less kids getting taught. Or you could apply to be a teacher yourself and fill their heads with your right wing ideas 😄

Maybe all those parents who do not want to return their children to school until September, should be shot or imprisoned too? They are all bound to be Marxist activists ☹️

It isn't going to happen, just as we are not going back to the old normal anytime soon. 

There is only one month until normal summer holidays

[Washedup]

When ya born into this world you get a ticket to the freak show and when ya born in America you get a front row seat..better Hold Fast

[dcfc2007]

23 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

So really your beef is with the left ?

You should try writing to the government and ask them to sack all these left wing teachers who don't want to go back. There is a major shortage of teachers so there will be even less kids getting taught. Or you could apply to be a teacher yourself and fill their heads with your right wing ideas 😄

Maybe all those parents who do not want to return their children to school until September, should be shot or imprisoned too? They are all bound to be Marxist activists ☹️

It isn't going to happen, just as we are not going back to the old normal anytime soon. 

Any man worth is salt has a problem with the left. 

[Nightcrawler]

1 minute ago, dcfc2007 said:

Any man worth is salt has a problem with the left. 

Then I suggest you start a topic about it in the Politics club where you can have your own soap box.

Corona virus is apolitical in its objectives

[dcfc2007]

3 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

Then I suggest you start a topic about it in the Politics club where you can have your own soap box.

Corona virus is apolitical in its objectives

Are you seriously suggesting there is no politics to the Covid-19 response? 

[Nightcrawler]

1 minute ago, dcfc2007 said:

Are you seriously suggesting there is no politics to the Covid-19 response? 

I am seriously suggesting that it does not become a political topic as has been mentioned several times now. So let's leave it there. 

[Horizondave]

2 hours ago, fforest said:

Well he is right about one thing....Covid has very little to do with a disease....And every thing to do with taking rights away...

Edit.... probably a few have read my reply but I decided to edit it as it is a hopeless task replying to an idiot.......and I won't get caught doing that again....I have better things to do.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Horizondave

[Nightcrawler]

Was just reading that Leicester (UK) has had a bit of a spike recently and could face a lockdown again. 

It maybe a one off, we shall have to wait and see, and whether other areas see rises in cases as the UK is seeing a general downward trend..

 

[Stillearly]

[Horizondave]

50 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

Was just reading that Leicester (UK) has had a bit of a spike recently and could face a lockdown again. 

It maybe a one off, we shall have to wait and see, and whether other areas see rises in cases as the UK is seeing a general downward trend..

 

Leicester, is that a city that Chelsea just beat lol

[KhunDon]