COVID 19 GLOBAL

[lazarus]

8 hours ago, roobob said:

Good example why we now have some good contributors not posting on this topic and several others.

 

Curious.

Who are these "good contributors" and do you know for a fact that they are not posting due to the convivial nature of our running Covid discussion? Please give us a few examples.

 

[lazarus]

21 minutes ago, bob lt said:

You hit the quote button in an earlier post.

The second time (the one of yours that I quoted) you quoted selectively.

However, as @lazarus isn't bothered, no point in me correcting you.

Cheers

 

Right. Not bothered...just entertained. I wish I could be on tour with the "vaccinators" too, someday. 😉

I've had the vaccine (Moderna) and take calculated health precautions as Covid is still in my community.

And, I did not (need to) ask my doctor for permission to get the vaccine.

Edited September 11, 2021 by lazarus

[Glasseye]

 

[galenkia]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:58 AM, roobob said:

As I said above...I will not take a chinese vaccine and I will wait until I can get the vaccine of my choice when it is available. When I choose the vaccine I will look at taking, I will talk with my Dr about it and if I am then happy with the information I have gathered I will then get vaccinated. What vaccine it will be...I have not decided yet but I will make sure you are one of the first to know.

I will take the vaccine because I take the flu jab..so yes... to me....both virus are much the same and should be treated as such.

It seems some antivaxers are taking medical advice from Drs for deciding not to take the vaccine and vaccinators are also high users of the same Social Media to get their message across as the antivaxers.

cheers  

Way I see it is that no vaccination or medicine is 100% safe for everyone, and as billions of people will be vaccinated even half a percent of them suffer side effects that's gonna be millions of people. I'm neither pro or anti vaccination, just see it as a necessary evil to be able to get on with our lives somewhat normally. 

I just took what was offered, which was Pfizer, and had no ill effects whatsoever. Some people I know have felt pretty ill from it. Luck of the draw really. 

I'm sure your fellow Aussies back home would be happy to take any offered. But at least you intend to get done, just need to work on @fforest now. 😀

[Krapow]

I said from the off i thought this was just a ploy/push to get people vaccinated. 

Also, on Tuesday Boris to unveil the Plan for Winter, with loads of emergency Covid 'laws' to be repealed, stuff like the power to close schools and businesses etc.

And confirming unless something catastrophic happens, there will no more full lockdowns, at least in England. In Scotland, they're more interested in another Indy ref, and will want to align with the EU rather than England.

The vaccines have clearly been the way out of this, as said for a while. There's clearly an acceptance we have to learn to live with this, and we will. 

Now will our resident conspiracy nutters accept that actually, reality is, there was/is a global pandemic, and no, the lizard people didn't decide it was their time and decide to take over.

No of course they won't, they're so far down the lunatic conspiracy rabbit hole from twitter for the likes, they're never coming back. 

 

[Krapow]

2 hours ago, galenkia said:

 

I'm sure your fellow Aussies back home would be happy to take any offered. But at least you intend to get done, just need to work on @fforest now. 😀

Be funny to see what happens when Thailand mandates it for Visa renewals, sometime next year i'd say 

[lazarus]

1 minute ago, Krapow said:

Be funny to see what happens when Thailand mandates it for Visa renewals, sometime next year i'd say 

haha...he'll be first in line then.

 

[KWA]

Vaccine passport plan U-turn for England - they'll no longer be required.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

 

[Nightcrawler]

56 minutes ago, Krapow said:

I said from the off i thought this was just a ploy/push to get people vaccinated. 

Also, on Tuesday Boris to unveil the Plan for Winter, with loads of emergency Covid 'laws' to be repealed, stuff like the power to close schools and businesses etc.

And confirming unless something catastrophic happens, there will no more full lockdowns, at least in England. In Scotland, they're more interested in another Indy ref, and will want to align with the EU rather than England.

The vaccines have clearly been the way out of this, as said for a while. There's clearly an acceptance we have to learn to live with this, and we will. 

Now will our resident conspiracy nutters accept that actually, reality is, there was/is a global pandemic, and no, the lizard people didn't decide it was their time and decide to take over.

No of course they won't, they're so far down the lunatic conspiracy rabbit hole from twitter for the likes, they're never coming back. 

 

That should be good news for antivaxers. Maybe they will stop banging on about their Freedoms, in the UK at least. Kind of takes the wind out of their sails

[fforest]

1 hour ago, Nightcrawler said:

That should be good news for antivaxers. Maybe they will stop banging on about their Freedoms, in the UK at least. Kind of takes the wind out of their sails

As long as any country has vax passports its a threat to everyone....The time for the party is when no country has them...

[Nightcrawler]

1 hour ago, fforest said:

As long as any country has vax passports its a threat to everyone....The time for the party is when no country has them...

What countries have mandatory vaccine passports currently? 

It's only a threat to the unvaccinated, not anyone else who has been vaccinated 

You do realise, of course, that pubs, bars and restaurants have right and freedom to decide who they will allow in their premises. That has always been the case and will continue, just as we have the freedom of deciding who we chose to let into our homes (unless it's a Police Search Warrant) 😊 That said, of course many businesses will not be asking for evidence of vaccination as profit will come first. 

There is a difference between a Vaccine Passport and proof of vaccine which is up to those who have registered on the NHS site. In UK. 

So I guess we will hear and see less antivaxers demonstrating on our streets and promoting themselves on Social Media, now that they have their Freedom and Covid Passports will not be mandatory. 

Somehow, I don't think they will stop there as they will have to find something else to fill their time with. 

More than likely, they will revert back to the old worn out conspiracy theories, who knows? 

But I am sure they will find something else to moan about. Maybe they will revert to Antimasking 😁

How else will their organisers keep raking in the profits? 

I have been vaccinated. But why would a vaccine passport be a threat to me? 

The time to Party is when Covid is under control and all people act responsibly by not spreading it and when 98% of the World 's population have been fully vaccinated. 

 

[fygjam]

13 minutes ago, fforest said:

As long as any country has vax passports its a threat to everyone....The time for the party is when no country has them...

Why is it a threat to everyone?

I'd imagine the vaccinated couldn't give a rat's dropping.

 

 

[Starshine]

1 hour ago, fforest said:

As long as any country has vax passports its a threat to everyone....The time for the party is when no country has them...

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Butch]

I personally view Vaccine passports as a slight infringement on civil liberties.

Previously a business can decide upon whom it allows in to serve, let's use a pub as an example.  Under the vaccine passport system, the freedom of choice for the business would have been removed, because a business should be able to choose if it serves those who are not vaccinated, not make it a mandatory entry requirement.

By the same token, the public have the freedom of choice to enter if they want to. That freedom of choice has ( or could have been, sorry)  been removed due to the need for a "voluntary" passport. There are analogies that can be used in counter argument, such as mandatory mask wearing for example, but wearing a mask does not need a customer to hand over any kind of data or information about themselves.

I think the Govt has made the right decision, and hopefully those people in society who are responsible enough would have got the free vaccine anyway, so would be at much less risk when socialising.

I'm very much pro vaccine, I'm eager to get my booster if it is offered and I also am cautious about C-19 and try to be as responsible as possible when in public. However, while mandatory mask wearing was common sense (and I don't care about any "studies" saying they're not effective - even if they are 10% effective it's better than nothing at all) and I still wear one in the supermarket, a "passport" to enter a premises or function is really on the fringe of Big Brother stuff.

I would also echo a concern about the data and information that a VP would require, how secure that data was and exactly what information would be available to a venue in checking them. Fortunately now we won't need to know.

 

 

[lazarus]

Passport ✔️

Driver's License & Motorcycle Certification ✔️

Birth Certificate ✔️

Social Security Card ✔️

Automobile registration & Insurance Proof ✔️

Medical Insurance ID ✔️

University Degrees & Transcripts ✔️

Covid-19 Vaccination Card ✔️

. . .

Vaccine passport  -- oh no frickin' way...that's an infringement on my rights and privacy and will cause enormous incalculable person harm.

Too funny.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by lazarus

[Butch]

2 minutes ago, lazarus said:

Passport ✔️

Driver's License & Motorcycle Certification ✔️

Birth Certificate ✔️

Social Security Card ✔️

Automobile registration & Insurance Proof ✔️

Medical Insurance ID ✔️

University Degrees & Transcripts ✔️

Covid-19 Vaccination Card ✔️

. . .

Vaccine passport  -- oh no frickin' way...that's an infringement on my rights and privacy and will cause enormous incalculable person harm.

Too funny.

 

 

 

 

I think it is what happens to the information and data that these venues get. In normal everyday life I don't have to show any ID to anyone for anything.

If I want to avail of free medical care then part of that requirement is for me to surrender my NHS number, they have a fairly secure and robust IT system (hopefully) so I know my data is relatively safe. It also stops me from being mis prescribed any meds as all the info is in there for the Doctor to check.

Same for my bank, my insurance providers and one would hope, the UK Home Office. However, a restaurant and bar perhaps not. It does entirely depend upon how much info and data they can access of course, but I do find myself agreeing with skeptics that I don't want some random guy working in or even owning a bar / restaurant knowing anything more about me than he needs to, or potentially having access to it.

 

[lazarus]

10 minutes ago, Butch said:

I don't want some random guy working in or even owning a bar / restaurant knowing anything more about me than he needs to, or potentially having access to it.

Sure...understandable.

But if you use a cash card or credit card to pay he already can (or does). There is also probably a security system that can use facial ID if needed (e.g., when reviewing the data for a robbery).

What about bars & liquor stores that require IDs for people who look young? It's almost universal here that an ID is checked (or scanned). They have cameras, to.

CCTV is almost ubiquitous in some places.

IMO...if you're not vaccinated...stay home. If you are and are asked to prove it...do.

I have my vaccination card on my phone. Have yet to be asked.

Edited September 12, 2021 by lazarus

[Stillearly]

27 minutes ago, Butch said:

I think it is what happens to the information and data that these venues get. In normal everyday life I don't have to show any ID to anyone for anything.

If I want to avail of free medical care then part of that requirement is for me to surrender my NHS number, they have a fairly secure and robust IT system (hopefully) so I know my data is relatively safe. It also stops me from being mis prescribed any meds as all the info is in there for the Doctor to check.

Same for my bank, my insurance providers and one would hope, the UK Home Office. However, a restaurant and bar perhaps not. It does entirely depend upon how much info and data they can access of course, but I do find myself agreeing with skeptics that I don't want some random guy working in or even owning a bar / restaurant knowing anything more about me than he needs to, or potentially having access to it.

 

When I visited Sydney a few years back , you had to register your ID passport / drivers license to be in a bar after six , think they photocopied it or scanned it ( iirc ) , didn't bother me I had a choice if I wanted to drink or not 

 

same in Las Vegas , I was with a group whose age range was late 30's to early 50's , we all had to show ID before we could enter a bar / club 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Stillearly

[Butch]

19 minutes ago, lazarus said:

Sure...understandable.

But if you use a cash card or credit card to pay he already can (or does). There is also probably a security system that can use facials ID if needed (when reviewing the data).

What about bars & liquor stores that require IDs for people who look young? It's almost universal here that an ID is checked (or scanned).

IMO...if you're not vaccinated...stay home.

The operator in a pub won't have full access to a persons CC or card details, they also won't have any information if the person pays by cash in the UK at least. some retailers ask for an email to send an receipt to, but they provide a paper one if required anyway.

Liqour vendors (in UK) can ask for ID by law, as they can be liable for criminal prosecution if they sell to underage buyers, it's a legal requirement but tbh I'm not sure of the laws in the USA, however, the customer has a choice to go elsewhere , surrender ID or not bother. Also, the vendor checks the age against the ID , they don't make a note of it, or at least not in the UK, they cannot legally take a copy of your ID, only use it to check details visually as far as I'm aware because Data protection won't allow them to. If they do want to take a copy, they need permission. 

I very well might be wrong on that as it's a good 24 years since I worked in front line customer service!! (thankfully).

Having a vaccine passport is or was not a legal requirement, it was going to be a voluntary requirement for entry into some venues, and entering without one I don't think would have led the individual to be criminally responsible for any offence, neither possibly would the service provider.

As mentioned, it's only my personal opinion on it, getting jabbed is responsible not only socially but also to our loved ones. If I was an anti vaxxer, then managed to get covid  (had it already, very unpleasant) which in turn killed a relative of mine then I couldn't live with myself, knowing that my own selfish (in)actions led to an entirely avoidable death.

Anyone not vaccinated and going out is stupid anyway.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Butch

[lazarus]

11 minutes ago, Butch said:

The operator in a pub won't have full access to a persons CC or card details, they also won't have any information if the person pays by cash in the UK at least. some retailers ask for an email to send an receipt to, but they provide a paper one if required anyway...

Yes. Paying cash is the way to go.

But... (from: https://www.lifelock.com/learn-fraud-how-to-avoid-credit-card-skimming.html )

Here’s how credit card skimming works
As you slide your credit or debit card into a compromised machine, the card skimmer reads the magnetic strip on your card and stores the card number. Your PIN can be captured, too, if a fake keypad was placed over the real one. Later, a thief scoops up the information and either sells it or uses it himself.

The number of compromised cards at U.S. ATMs and merchants rose 70 percent in 2016, according to FICO’s Card Alert Service. But you can learn how to avoid credit card skimmers.

You’re most likely to see these devices at gas pumps, ATMs or metro station ticket kiosks. But if your card leaves your sight at a restaurant or department store, an employee could use a skimmer to get your card info, too. ...

. . .

I'm not nit-picking anything you have written. It's just IMO having a vaccination ID (of some sort) does not seem like an intrusion on my privacy in light of all the other personal information that is "out there." And if it means I can get back to my sweet gal in Lijiang, Yunnan PRC  sooner...I'm all for it.

[Butch]

3 minutes ago, lazarus said:

I'm not nit-picking anything you have written. It's just IMO having a vaccination ID (of some sort) does not seem like an intrusion on my privacy in light of all the other personal information that is "out there." And if it means I can get back to my sweet gal in Lijiang, Yunnan PRC  sooner...I'm all for it.

I agree with you 100%, while I don't like the idea of a vaccine passport and think it is an invasion of civil liberties, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't get one.

In some ways, VP's could be argued as the way forward. As time goes on and C-19 becomes less of a threat, having a VP is a means to an end for people to be free from some of the restrictions imposed, ironically. Also, it could make the difference for some businesses to survive or not, for people to keep their jobs, homes and livelihoods, in which case there is a very strong argument for them.

Reassurance is what is needed, along with transparency regarding the data collection and where it'll end up and what will be done with it and then ratified in law.

In an ideal world it'll just be simple correlation of a few details which are then deleted after 24 hours, by law and nothing kept back. A more cynical and sinister scenario would be the data is kept, processed and becomes property of the venue to do what they want with.

I'd like to think many people would share that concern, but then again, looking at what some people post on facebook these days, data protection is the furthest thing from their minds.

 

[lazarus]

4 hours ago, Butch said:

...In an ideal world it'll just be simple correlation of a few details which are then deleted after 24 hours, by law and nothing kept back. A more cynical and sinister scenario would be the data is kept, processed and becomes property of the venue to do what they want with.

I'd like to think many people would share that concern, but then again, looking at what some people post on facebook these days, data protection is the furthest thing from their minds.

In the US...anything that is public record is available for free (or with a charge) to anyone online. From there it is a slippery slope to anything that is not public record. A good data sleuth can get deep into a person's affairs with little trouble.

In terms of a VP...if it encourages some of the naysayers to get the vaccine and help hasten the end to the pandemic I'm all for it. If you don't want the vaccine no worries...just stay home, or at least away from people who may be at risk, children, small dogs, etc.). 🐶

Most digital personal privacy went out the window with smartphones. Data miners, triangulators, and security hackers have already seen to it.

Edited September 12, 2021 by lazarus

[fforest]

 

[fforest]

But no vax passports in the uk....yea right

 

 

[Nightcrawler]

1 hour ago, fforest said:

But no vax passports in the uk....yea right

 

 

Corrected for yer

More than 1,000 people demonstrated against extending the use of the Covid Certificate in the Swiss capital, Bern, on Wednesday evening

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/protesters-march-against-covid-certificate/46933634

To be clear, Vaccine Passports are used for International Travel. 

I doubt that those who have been vaccinated including the 8.5 million Swiss citizens  are too bothered. 

Pass that onto Gary, whoever the+ck he is 😊

Cheers