COVID 19 GLOBAL

[lazarus]

5 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

It is a simple equation. 

Don't expect roooob to do understand the math. 

Foolishness + principles do not equal anything but stupidity.

Edited September 10, 2021 by lazarus
cleaned it up a bit...

[roobob]

9 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

His own life choice sure. 

I disagree that vaccinators and antivaxers are on the same page and equally guilty. 

How many people have died or become hospitalised as a result of the Covid virus compared to those who have been vaccinated? 

Those who promote vaccinations are largely promoting life, not death through disinformation. 

It is a simple equation. 

Some of his audience may well have died or become very sick. Hopefully there may be some positives from his death in that some of his followers now see the stark reality of what he was promoting. 

Yes there are some promoting vaccinations I agree, but there are some going beyond promoting vaccinations to demanding, threatening  and mandating to people that jab up or you will loose your livelyhood which can lead to financial destructions for themselves as well as their families. The flow on from there can also lead to where some of these people choose to take their own lives.

So yes, I put them both on the same page and equally as guilty.

cheers

[Nightcrawler]

48 minutes ago, roobob said:

Yes there are some promoting vaccinations I agree, but there are some going beyond promoting vaccinations to demanding, threatening  and mandating to people that jab up or you will loose your livelyhood which can lead to financial destructions for themselves as well as their families. The flow on from there can also lead to where some of these people choose to take their own lives.

So yes, I put them both on the same page and equally as guilty.

cheers

I am not sure about threatening but.......... 

You need to understand that whilst people have the freedom to decide not to be vaccinated, employers also have the freedom to impose vaccinations on staff. 

Freedoms cut both ways but none of us are truly free.

Society places all manner of restrictions on the populous, whether it be wearing seat belts, no smoking zones, antisocial behaviour, drink driving etc etc etc. All there for a reason. 

In certain jobs, employers require a medical examination, prior to being hired. Imagine just one infected person on a large oil rig. There is a duty to protect their employees and their business

It will be interesting to see just how strong these principles are, which are largely based on falsehoods, when it comes down to money in the pocket. 

Employers want an active workforce, less likely to become sick. One unvaccinated person could quickly spread the virus to other unvaccinated persons in workplace and also transmit break throughs to those vaccinated. They can become an extra cost the employers. 

When you weigh it up, someone who takes their own life because they refuse a vaccine which may protect their life, does not make a lot of sense. 

Who do they care most about? Feeding their family and the themself or some unfounded unproven conspiracy theory about vaccines? 

We are all responsible for our own actions. 

If millions of people were dropping dead as a direct result of vaccines, then I could see an argument. But they are not. 

Once antivaxers can come up with specific and truthful reasons for not being  vaccinated, other than bang on about their FREEDOMS, then maybe they would have a plausable excuse or argument. Princples are shallow without logical evidence 

 

[Starshine]

5 hours ago, fforest said:

No, but it will stop dumb antivaxer fuckwits from travelling

[Nightcrawler]

Let me tell you about Cancer treatment. Radio and Chemotherapy. I have had both and those treatments which  smash the fuck out of you both physically and mentally. 

They can be worse than the symptoms. But if we are unfortunate enough to develop cancer, which many are, its the patient's choice whether to go through it. Most do because the alternatives are often slow painful deaths. But they save lives. 

One of the reasons I get cross with Antivaxers banging on about their freedoms is that most, if not all, would accept intrusive therapy for Cancer. Yet they bang on about how intrusive they think that Covid vaccines are and about how they might affect them. Poor them 

Oh, they may get minor side effects for a day or two. Poor them. In some cases, the real crackpots are worried that they may become magnetic, Bluetooth enabled, suffer autism or die. 

In truth, they are being manipulated by just a few, who have other motives. 

I was vaccinated months ago, and not developed any of those symptoms. 

 

 

[fforest]

38 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

 

One of the reasons I get cross with Antivaxers banging on about their freedoms is that most, if not all, would accept intrusive therapy for Cancer.

 

 

I bet you anything (most)  anti-vaxers would not take traditional cancer treatments...

[Nightcrawler]

Just now, fforest said:

I bet you anything (most)  anti-vaxers would not take traditional cancer treatments...

Well, that remains speculative.  Maybe they would go for online remedies and animal drugs, or witch doctors,who knows. 

But if they dont, then thats up to them, as they are at least not spreading germs to anyone else. 

If they want to die prematurely in pain, that is there choice, as long as they can afford care and the cost of their funeral. 

No point on betting, as there is no evidence either way. 

[Nightcrawler]

7 minutes ago, fforest said:

I bet you anything (most)  anti-vaxers would not take traditional cancer treatments...

would you ????

[fygjam]

20 minutes ago, fforest said:

I bet you anything (most)  anti-vaxers would not take traditional cancer treatments...

What about Ivermectin? Are they into horse dewormer or is that a different band of fruit-loops?

 

 

[KhunDon]

1 hour ago, fforest said:

I bet you anything (most)  anti-vaxers would not take traditional cancer treatments...

I suspect you’d end up a pauper if you did bet the farm on your unsubstantiated post.
A £5 bet at odds of 2-1 would probably wipe you out anyway. 🤔

However, putting aside their families for the moment, cancer only affects the person who has it, so it doesn’t matter if they refuse treatment for the disease, though I bet near the end they’ll be screaming for other medications such as Morphine.

Covid is different, it’s a highly transmissible disease, so if the antivaxers are knowingly carrying it, but don’t declare it and if they work with the elderly or sick and pass it on to them and subsequently the person dies, then IMHO that is tantamount to murder. 

Harsh words I know, but prove me wrong.

 

[roobob]

4 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

I am not sure about threatening but.......... 

You need to understand that whilst people have the freedom to decide not to be vaccinated, employers also have the freedom to impose vaccinations on staff. 

Freedoms cut both ways but none of us are truly free.

Society places all manner of restrictions on the populous, whether it be wearing seat belts, no smoking zones, antisocial behaviour, drink driving etc etc etc. All there for a reason. 

In certain jobs, employers require a medical examination, prior to being hired. Imagine just one infected person on a large oil rig. There is a duty to protect their employees and their business

It will be interesting to see just how strong these principles are, which are largely based on falsehoods, when it comes down to money in the pocket. 

Employers want an active workforce, less likely to become sick. One unvaccinated person could quickly spread the virus to other unvaccinated persons in workplace and also transmit break throughs to those vaccinated. They can become an extra cost the employers. 

When you weigh it up, someone who takes their own life because they refuse a vaccine which may protect their life, does not make a lot of sense. 

Who do they care most about? Feeding their family and the themself or some unfounded unproven conspiracy theory about vaccines? 

We are all responsible for our own actions. 

If millions of people were dropping dead as a direct result of vaccines, then I could see an argument. But they are not. 

Once antivaxers can come up with specific and truthful reasons for not being  vaccinated, other than bang on about their FREEDOMS, then maybe they would have a plausable excuse or argument. Princples are shallow without logical evidence 

 

 

An employer does not have the right to tell any person what medicines they have to take/put in their body.

I agree with you that freedoms cut both ways...but as can be seen...freedoms are only cutting one way at the moment and will get worse.

To me, any one who takes their own life in any circumstances is sad and does not make sense but the pressure now being seen placed on ordinary people that if they do not line up and get vaccinated then their livelyhood will be taken from them which can result in financial ruin for their families and themselves.

Agree... millions are not dropping dead from the result of being vaccinated but in the same token, millions of vaccinated people are not dropping dead with mixing with unvaccinated people.

cheers 

Edited September 10, 2021 by roobob

[roobob]

1 hour ago, KhunDon said:

I suspect you’d end up a pauper if you did bet the farm on your unsubstantiated post.
A £5 bet at odds of 2-1 would probably wipe you out anyway. 🤔

However, putting aside their families for the moment, cancer only affects the person who has it, so it doesn’t matter if they refuse treatment for the disease, though I bet near the end they’ll be screaming for other medications such as Morphine.

Covid is different, it’s a highly transmissible disease, so if the antivaxers are knowingly carrying it, but don’t declare it and if they work with the elderly or sick and pass it on to them and subsequently the person dies, then IMHO that is tantamount to murder. 

Harsh words I know, but prove me wrong.

 

The flu is a highly transmittable disease which has a large death rate...has the flu/influenza shots been mandated for all to have??

So going by your thinking if someone passes the flu/influenza on to another person and they die, it is tantamount to murder.

Oh dear

cheers

Edited September 10, 2021 by roobob

[lazarus]

18 minutes ago, roobob said:

The flu is a highly transmittable disease which have a large death rate...has the flu/influenza shots been mandated for all to have??

Much like comparing apples to oranges.

You know the difference, don't you?

. . .

Coronavirus vs. Flu Deaths

COVID-19: Current COVID-19 deaths: 4,608,243 (since start of pandemic in early 2020)

source: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths. WHO recommends annual influenza vaccination as the most effective way to prevent influenza. Vaccination is especially important for people at higher risk of serious influenza complications and for health care workers."

source: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by lazarus

[roobob]

37 minutes ago, lazarus said:

Much like comparing apples to oranges.

You know the difference, don't you?

. . .

Coronavirus vs. Flu Deaths

COVID-19: Current COVID-19 deaths: 4,608,243 (since start of pandemic in early 2020)

source: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

"Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion, cases of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths. WHO recommends annual influenza vaccination as the most effective way to prevent influenza. Vaccination is especially important for people at higher risk of serious influenza complications and for health care workers."

source: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-03-2019-who-launches-new-global-influenza-strategy
 

 

 

 

So going by what you posted above.... why have the pro vaccine mob not been for years pushing  for flu/influenza shots to be mandated as compulsory and employers mandating them??

We are not talking about oranges and apples... we are talking about two highly infectious diseases recognised by WHO??

Surely there could not be something sinister going on could there?? 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by roobob

[lazarus]

18 minutes ago, roobob said:

"...the pro vaccine mob..."

Where is the pro-vaccine mob?

I've only seen anti-vaxx sheep protesting.

(btw: I get a flu shot every year -- it's just the smart thing to do)

[lazarus]

35 minutes ago, roobob said:

We are not talking about oranges and apples... we are talking about two highly infectious diseases recognised by WHO??

No comparison. Covid is much more infectious and deadly than the flu.

Maybe you don't understand that?

[roobob]

39 minutes ago, lazarus said:

No comparison. Covid is much more infectious and deadly than the flu.

Maybe you don't understand that?

Really?? Going what you have posted...it seems the flu/influenza could give covid a good run for it's money. One billion infected flu cases a year and you say that covid is more infectious...wow..

cheers

This is what you posted. A billion cases cases yearly..is remains one of the world's greatest public health challenges ."Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths. WHO recommends annual influenza vaccination as the most effective way to prevent influenza. Vaccination is especially important for people at higher risk of serious influenza complications and for health care workers."

[bob lt]

5 minutes ago, roobob said:

Really?? Going what you have posted...it seems the flu/influenza could give covid a good run for it's money. One billion infected flu cases a year and you say that covid is more infectious...wow..

cheers

This is what you posted. A billion cases cases yearly..is remains one of the world's greatest public health challenges ."Influenza remains one of the world’s greatest public health challenges. Every year across the globe, there are an estimated 1 billion cases, of which 3 to 5 million are severe cases, resulting in 290 000 to 650 000 influenza-related respiratory deaths. WHO recommends annual influenza vaccination as the most effective way to prevent influenza. Vaccination is especially important for people at higher risk of serious influenza complications and for health care workers."

Ah, quoting the part  that suits. If you are going to quote, don't forget the part about Covid deaths. 

"COVID-19: Current COVID-19 deaths: 4,608,243 (since start of pandemic in early 2020)"

If you spread these deaths over 18 months, that equates to 256k per month or more than 3,000,000 per year.

Total cases 223,369,412, total deaths 4,608,983 at 10/9/2021 source jhu

Cheers

[Nightcrawler]

2 hours ago, roobob said:

So going by what you posted above.... why have the pro vaccine mob not been for years pushing  for flu/influenza shots to be mandated as compulsory and employers mandating them??

We are not talking about oranges and apples... we are talking about two highly infectious diseases recognised by WHO??

Surely there could not be something sinister going on could there?? 

 

It's not either or. There has been a vaccine for Flu for years and usually recommended by a GP for those over 60. It also tends to be a seasonal virus particularly more acute in Winter. 

But Covid, is a new virus and far more contagious and deadly than Flu. The fact that it has ripped through nearly every country in the world within a very short period is proof of that. 

There is nothing sinister about it, unless you are a conspiracy theorist who thinks that Covid is just a hoax and a way of controlling the populus

Most Flu cases go unreported and unless you have underlying respiratory problem and or are over 65

But here is the main point.......... 

In a bad flu year in UK up to 30,000 people may die each year in UK

In 2020, 134,000 Covid infected people died. 

Do the maths, that 104,000 more people died of Coronavirus related symptoms. 

In 1918 the Spanish Flu is estimated to have taken over 50 million lives worldwide, with a 50% recovery rate

There were no vaccines, few wore masks and observed social distancing. There was little to no treatment available either. 

Do we want a repeat of that, when we now have vaccines, more effective treatments and communication capabilities to combat Covid 19?

Apples, oranges and bananas, 219 million people, mainly in Africa and Asia, died of Malaria in 2017.

Vaccines are currently being tested for Malaria and could be a game changer. Mosquitos refused to wear masks and socially distance themselves from humans

😊

CHEERS 

 

[Nightcrawler]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:10 AM, roobob said:

You are pretty close to the mark.

 

I am not anti vax.... vaccines are the way to go....but I believe that the people have the right to make the choice of what vaccine they want to take and when they want to take it. What a person puts in their body is their choice...not to be mandated by Govt. There will be some who will not be able to take it due to medical reasons and also people who do not want to take the vaccines now available and again...they should have that right and should not discriminated against.. 

Myself...I will not take a Chinese vaccine......I will wait to get a vaccine of my choice when it is is available...will then talk with my Dr about it.... and if I am happy....then I will get vaccinated. If I have to pay to get the vaccine of my choice...no problem...I am prepared to do that and will willingly do so. 

I believe lockdowns do not work...they never have...they never will  To me the way to go is and has been from Day one.....

Test...Trace...Isolate..... learn to live with the virus as it is not going away...and open up.

On Fauci.... correct what you said I think about him above....and the sooner the better.

Hope the glasses of vino went down well after a hard days toil.

cheers 

 

Glad to see it.  I agree that people wiyj certain medical problems should be exempt (never argued against that )

So what vaccine are you going to chose ?  Are you going to take the advice of your doctor ? I guess he is an expert then, unless of course he is an antivaxer 😁 or a  quack. Is that your doctor in BKK or in your home country.?

What I am slightly confused about is WHY you will take the vaccine, since you have implied that Covid is no more dangerous than Flu 

Perhaps if some of the antivaxers took medical advice from their Doctors rather than from Social Media, they might be better informed 

Lockdowns have worked to reduce infections until the vaccine roll out kicked in. Certainly in UK anyway. 

Cheers

[Kathmandu]

[KhunDon]

6 hours ago, roobob said:

The flu is a highly transmittable disease which has a large death rate...has the flu/influenza shots been mandated for all to have??

So going by your thinking if someone passes the flu/influenza on to another person and they die, it is tantamount to murder.

Oh dear

cheers

I said the following :

“Covid is different, it’s a highly transmissible disease, so if the antivaxers are knowingly carrying it, but don’t declare it and if they work with the elderly or sick and pass it on to them and subsequently the person dies, then IMHO that is tantamount to murder”. 

Why shouldn’t they be charged with murder, or at the very least, manslaughter?

They knowingly passed on a disease to an elderly or medically vulnerable person, knowing full well that the disease would more than likely kill them. 
 

It’s no different to the many cases of HIV/AIDS that were knowingly passed on to unsuspecting people in the late 80’ and early 90’s, where a person knew they were infected with a disease that would be fatal to the other person, yet chose not to tell the person their status before they engaged in sex with them. 
Many cases out there, where the person was charged and found guilty and received long jail sentences.

 

[lazarus]

Just to be clear for *some* people who evidently do not understand the importance of vaccinations for Covid-19.

. . .

Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds
Moderna vaccine is most effective, says another study, the largest to date in U.S. to assess real-world effectiveness

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

People who were not fully vaccinated this spring and summer were more than 10 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, than those who were fully vaccinated, according to one of three major studies published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that highlight the continued efficacy of all three vaccines amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

A second study showed that the Moderna coronavirus vaccine was more effective in preventing hospitalizations than its counterparts from Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson. That assessment was based on the largest U.S. study to date of the real-world effectiveness of all three vaccines, involving about 32,000 patients seen in hospitals, emergency departments and urgent-care clinics across nine states from June through early August...

(note: article is free to access / no paywall)

. . .

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status — 13 U.S. Jurisdictions, April 4–July 17, 2021

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_w

Interim Estimates of COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness Against COVID-19–Associated Emergency Department or Urgent Care Clinic Encounters and Hospitalizations Among Adults During SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant Predominance — Nine States, June–August 2021

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e2.htm?s_cid=mm7037e2_w

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by lazarus

[lazarus]

 

[fforest]

Today is Saturday, September,11,  2021

20 years ago today was September 11 2001

 

The 47 story Salamon Btothers building (WTC7) close to the World trade center has also collapsed.....

 

The 9/11 circus was just a warm-up for covid.....

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by fforest