Thai Vloggers

[forcebwithu]

Police issue guidance on controversial new data law

The Royal Thai Police (RTP) has issued a set of recommendations on the use of personal photos, videos and other files without violating the new Personal Data Protection Act (PDPA), which will come into effect on Wednesday.

Deputy police spokesman Pol Col Siriwat Deepor said on Tuesday that people can still take pictures and videos of others unintentionally and use them for personal purposes, but they must not cause damage to anyone.

Under the new law, people can post pictures and video clips of themselves with others for personal purposes online, without the intention of commercial gain or causing damage, he said.
...

 

I hope this puts an end to vloggers intentionally recording and posting videos of people for commercial gain without their consent.

I recognize there is a grey area where they are walking and recording what they see and people are recorded in passing. It's the creeps and aggressive vloggers out there that focus on individuals or groups of people without their consent that I hope this law will put a stop to.

[Butch]

On 6/1/2022 at 4:03 AM, forcebwithu said:

Police issue guidance on controversial new data law

The Royal Thai Police (RTP) has issued a set of recommendations on the use of personal photos, videos and other files without violating the new Personal Data Protection Act (PDPA), which will come into effect on Wednesday.

Deputy police spokesman Pol Col Siriwat Deepor said on Tuesday that people can still take pictures and videos of others unintentionally and use them for personal purposes, but they must not cause damage to anyone.

Under the new law, people can post pictures and video clips of themselves with others for personal purposes online, without the intention of commercial gain or causing damage, he said.
...

 

I hope this puts an end to vloggers intentionally recording and posting videos of people for commercial gain without their consent.

I recognize there is a grey area where they are walking and recording what they see and people are recorded in passing. It's the creeps and aggressive vloggers out there that focus on individuals or groups of people without their consent that I hope this law will put a stop to.

I agree, in fact I was just watching one of "Buzzin's" latest videos on Soi 8 where he is very careful of filming people, at one point pointing the camera up towards the side of a Hotel and talking about it as there were people walking towards him, also asking permission to sim a camera in a bar and asking Thai ladies if they're happy to be on film, and also avoiding filming Poppy Bar at the bottom until he was across the road.

Trevor is probably the best and most considerate of them all, plus he makes the best content. It's those wankers who film covertly that annoy me, especially the ones with the camera hidden in the bag and controlled by phone.

[Evil Penevil]

From a background article in the Bangkok Post  on the PDPA:

It's very unclear what will be the exact effects of Thailand's Personal Data Protection Act.  It's mainly intended to regulate data collection, use and storage in e-commerce and by entities like Facebook and Google.  The Thai law  is closely based on the E.U.'s European General Data Protection Regulation, which has been copied by a number of countries.

The PDPA certainly has implications for social media posts by private individuals, but much will hang on how the law is enforced by Thai police and how it's interpreted by the Thai courts.  A lot depends on the meaning attached to words like 'commercial gain" and "damage."  There's been discussion elsewhere that the new law will shut down the numerous YouTube vloggers who haunt Pattaya's streets and bars.  These vloggers seldom have the consent of the people they film other than those who sit for an interview.

Here's the crucial question: on what grounds would the police take action?  Because an image was used for commercial gain or because it caused harm?  Neither is clear-cut.

I doubt many of the Pattaya vloggers are making much money directly from YouTube. Many people believe that if an uploaded YouTube video gets a lot of views, it automatically earns money.  That is NOT true.  The channel must be monetized before it earns a cent and monetization involves an application process which is quite selective.  I don't think YouTube permits monetization of "adult" channels such as those of the Pattaya vbloggers. I don't mean channels with explicit images; those aren't allowed on YouTube at all. I'm referring to channels focused  on sex and prostitution.   

I could be wrong, though, on this point and some Pattaya vloggers may have achieved monetization for their uploads.  But even without monetization, it's possible for vloggers to make money through "arrangements" with business owners.  Whether the Thai police would get involved on the basis of that sort of "commercial gain" is unlikely but not out of the question.

It's also important to note is that the PDPA does not forbid vloggers from taking videos in public places; it regulates how those videos can be used and in theory provides a remedy for anyone whose image is used "for commercial gain" without their consent. That is in fact an extension to the Internet of the laws which already protect the use of images in print and broadcast ads.  In many countries, it's been the law for a long time that a model must sign a release form if his or her image is used for commercial purposes.  Nothing really new there; it's simply the law catching up with new technology.

Will the PDPA stop the farang vloggers?  Yes.  No.  Maybe.  It depends on how vigorously the law is enforced.  I don't think it will shut down any channels overnight, but it could give the more aggressive stalker-style and hidden-camera vloggers reason to reconsider what they are doing.

A more effective way to cause the vloggers grief is to report their videos to YouTube for promoting prostitution or for racist portrayals of Thai women.  I  don't watch the Pattaya vloggers' videos so I can't report them.  But if a channel gets enough complaints, YouTube will take it down.

The PDPA has some possible implications for boards like Thailand-247, but I'll deal with those in a separate post.

Evil

Edited June 3, 2022 by Evil Penevil

[Evil Penevil]

I want to call attention to two paragraphs in the article I linked to in my previous post, particularly to the  highlighted sentence.

"Phongphan Polyiem, a lecturer and lawyer who specialises in human resources and Thai labour law, provided a few examples during a seminar on the PDPA that could result in fines of up to 500,000 baht and/or imprisonment for up to six months.

"He said taking someone's photo directly off Google to edit and/or add messages, whether it is supporting or criticising the person, is considered a violation of the PDPA. Posting about someone's illness and health data on social media platforms or issuing a notice to a specific employee through a mass Line group chat with other employees in it are also examples of violations."

It seems this could apply to some threads on Thailand-247.  I don't think there is any reason to be immediately concerned, especially since the police have said they will mostly warn potential  offenders during the law's first year of operation.  But it's a situation which is worth watching for signs that Thailand is becoming in practice as well as theory more restrictive about photos posted on the Internet.

I doubt the Thai police are going to be too interested in farang boards in English.  The real question is what they will do if a farang reports a farang board for violation of PDPA.  Will the police launch an investigation or will they simply shrug it off as too obscure for their attention?

I also wonder how many farang residents of Thailand would undertake a civil lawsuit in a Thai court to have a picture removed and perhaps seek monetary compensation for the damage the photo did to their reputation? It's always struck me as best to keep as a low a profile as possible in Thailand with Thai authorities. 

Evil

[Bazle]

21 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

"He said taking someone's photo directly off Google to edit and/or add messages, whether it is supporting or criticising the person, is considered a violation of the PDPA. 

So will you stop posting pictures of Gabor? 

[Evil Penevil]

50 minutes ago, Bazle said:

So will you stop posting pictures of Gabor? 

That's probably a good idea and I'll be happy to report him for the pics he's posted of me.  

Evil

[Golfingboy]

To go with the above, I read on Thai expat Facebook page you will be required to have a sticker or something declaring your vehicle has a dashcam. WTF is this? Another “offence” to generate fines for the BiB, or protecting themselves from embarrassing extortion attempts later appearing online ??

Edited June 4, 2022 by Golfingboy

[tommy dee]

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

That's probably a good idea and I'll be happy to report him for the pics he's posted of me.  

Evil

he isnt a poster here so a non issue 🙂

[forcebwithu]

4 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I want to call attention to two paragraphs in the article I linked to in my previous post, particularly to the  highlighted sentence.

"Phongphan Polyiem, a lecturer and lawyer who specialises in human resources and Thai labour law, provided a few examples during a seminar on the PDPA that could result in fines of up to 500,000 baht and/or imprisonment for up to six months.

"He said taking someone's photo directly off Google to edit and/or add messages, whether it is supporting or criticising the person, is considered a violation of the PDPA. Posting about someone's illness and health data on social media platforms or issuing a notice to a specific employee through a mass Line group chat with other employees in it are also examples of violations."

It seems this could apply to some threads on Thailand-247.  I don't think there is any reason to be immediately concerned, especially since the police have said they will mostly warn potential  offenders during the law's first year of operation.  But it's a situation which is worth watching for signs that Thailand is becoming in practice as well as theory more restrictive about photos posted on the Internet.

I doubt the Thai police are going to be too interested in farang boards in English.  The real question is what they will do if a farang reports a farang board for violation of PDPA.  Will the police launch an investigation or will they simply shrug it off as too obscure for their attention?

I also wonder how many farang residents of Thailand would undertake a civil lawsuit in a Thai court to have a picture removed and perhaps seek monetary compensation for the damage the photo did to their reputation? It's always struck me as best to keep as a low a profile as possible in Thailand with Thai authorities. 

Evil

Valid point about the risk to a forum for hosting posts which feature people who have had their picture taken without their knowledge. BIB would probably see the forum as having deeper pockets than the individual, and they would also have more leverage knowing a business has more at stake as a going concern.

Fortunately I can't remember seeing any such posts on 247, but noticed several on another forum that it's clear the photographer is surreptitiously "stalking" his female subjects. Very creepy behavior IMHO.

[Derek Dangleberries]

3 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Fortunately I can't remember seeing any such posts on 247, but noticed several on another forum that it's clear the photographer is surreptitiously "stalking" his female subjects. Very creepy behavior IMHO.

Shit yeh!

One in particular that filmed receptionists/agents showing him around condo buildings, walking up stairs doing his best to film "up-skirt" shots.

He was the bloke trying to film a girl puking up in WS but a motorcy taxi stood in his way and the wanker started an argument....Top Notch Wanker!

[Evil Penevil]

6 hours ago, tommy dee said:

he isnt a poster here so a non issue 🙂

I was referring to the numerous times he's posted my pic on Facebook and on other forums when he was active there.  

The few times I've used Gabor's image, I've done so in a satirical style or as a parody.  That was allowed in the past in Thailand and still is allowed in some countries, including the U.S. It's what's called the "fair use" exception to copyright protection.   However, PDPA trumps copyright laws.  Copyright laws protect the right of the creator to control how the work is reproduced;  data protection laws protect the privacy of individuals.  PDPA no longer allows "fair use" or at least makes it more problematic.  It illustrates the type of change that PDPA could bring about.

6 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Valid point about the risk to a forum for hosting posts which feature people who have had their picture taken without their knowledge. BIB would probably see the forum as having deeper pockets than the individual, and they would also have more leverage knowing a business has more at stake as a going concern.

Fortunately I can't remember seeing any such posts on 247, but noticed several on another forum that it's clear the photographer is surreptitiously "stalking" his female subjects. Very creepy behavior IMHO.

The photograph can have taken and posted to the Internet with the subject's consent, but if a third party finds the photo through a Net search and reposts it without consent, it is a potential violation of PDPA.  However, it's not enough that the photo has merely been reposted, the plaintiff would also have to prove that his or image was either used  1) for the poster's commercial gain; or that 2) the reposting, as opposed to the original posting, caused harm.

With PDPA and similar laws, legislation is catching up with technology.  The Internet has been largely unregulated since its inception.  People were free to post comments and images that would have been banned from traditional media or at least punished if they did occur.   But on the Internet, people were able to make billions of such posts anonymously with no accountability whatsoever.

Countless photos and videos of Thai girls have been posted without their permission and in many cases to their detriment.  PDPA MAY be a means of addressing the most egregious cases.  I say MAY because no one knows how strictly or vigorously it will be enforced.

Thailand-247 has been ahead of the curve since its start in that it has never allowed the posting of shall we say provocative pictures no matter the source.   If there are no pics, there can't be complaints about them.

Evil

 

[Evil Penevil]

3 hours ago, Derek Dangleberries said:

Shit yeh!

One in particular that filmed receptionists/agents showing him around condo buildings, walking up stairs doing his best to film "up-skirt" shots.

He was the bloke trying to film a girl puking up in WS but a motorcy taxi stood in his way and the wanker started an argument....Top Notch Wanker!

Up-skirt and down-blouse photos taken and posted without the subjects' consent have been illegal in Thailand and many other countries for several years now.  The chances of a photographer actually getting punished for  posting them have been small in Thailand, but in the U.S., several guys have gone to jail for such photos.

Filming a girl puking in the street is, however, not illegal.  Under the PDPA,  posting it to the Internet would be.  As you say, the guy is a top-notch wanker for trying, but he wasn't doing anything illegal at the time.  However, he did something very stupid and disrespectful and could certainly have regretted getting into an argument with a moto driver.

Evil

[Horizondave]

I am shocked by some of the photos of girls posted in a Philippines forum I am on. Some post to get a positive response as if they are a stud, 'look at me guys', when the majority of the girls are not as attractive as the poster believes.

Fact is 100s of girls are being seen naked to the eyes of 1000s of members and I bet 99 percent are not aware or gave authority for the publication of the pics. The photos are also usually accompanied by very derogatory terms to describe the girl. 

I don't personally like seeing naked photos on forums, if I want that I will view Porn although most of the photos on this forum are just sexy without being hardcore and, no doubt, the girls are happy to get avid views and likes.

I think the law does need to change to protect individuals and especially girls from some of the disgusting pics posted on public forums (without consent). 

Just my opinion though.

[Butch]

Years ago when we had the "Thaigers" forum, as the owner of the domain I was contacted a few times, noteably by one third party Company who didn't want their product associated with a forum "extolling the virtues of prostitution in South East Asia" - It was in fact an independent Travel Company who advertised Hotels in Pattaya. They threatened all sorts of legal action which they could not back up and as such were ignored. They even went as far as sending me a copy/ paste legal email, which I ignored.

We were also contacted by 2 individuals requesting a photo or image of them was removed, with which we duly complied (one was from a BM's TR where the person was in the background!). We did it out of respect for the person's privacy and moral obligation rather than out of a legal obligation.

The moral of the yarn being that these legal "threats" - for want of a better word - can come from anywhere and at anytime. The most innocuous thread or posting might flag up, maybe a couple of years later with action being demanded. Apart from previously being a rather toothless demand, it appears that with the law tightening or at least having some mileage with regards interpretation from the Thai authorities at least, maybe some of these vloggers should start exercising due diligence, especially the "covert" filmers.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Butch

[forcebwithu]

As far as I know this is the first reported incident of a vlogger/live streamer getting into a physical altercation. In this case the live streamer ignored a request not to record a person and then proceeds to make matters worse by telling the guy "fck you".

Pattaya Man Fined 1,000 Baht for Punching South Korean Live Streamer, Live Streamer Fined As Well

YT video of the incident below. Age restricted because the guy continues to live stream with a bloody nose and thinks it's funny.

After watching the video it seems to me the guy was looking to provoke a reaction to garner more views for his live stream.

Bunch of kunts that ignore requests not to be recorded.

 

[Lantern]

^Total wanker. Deserved all he got.

[Butch]

There's a SE Asian guy who live streams in Treetown from one of the coffee shops most evenings. Nice little setup, the camera is pointing towards himself and he seems to be answering questions most of the time. Tends to keep himself to himself tbh and I've yet to see him walking around filming everyone.

I've noticed there are a few more vloggers nowadays, with the established ones still producing essentially the same content but recycled,. There's only so many Soi's you can walk along, people you can interview and subjects someone can opine upon before it gets stale. In the same way there's only so many bars you can film.

I still find Nick Dean and Buzzin useful for up to date bar news, but that's all, but I probably watch 1 video a week at the very most.

Also, Pattaya Pariah has made another appearance but doesn't seem to be posting about Pattaya, more doing general observations about life.

I've noticed a few guys walking and filming, especially along Bukhao. I think they're now accepted but still not particularly liked by most.

[Stillearly]

This one's sad , a young Aussie guy , Ricky in Issan , living up country with his wife and newborn twin daughters, he wife died a couple of weeks ago from dengue... now he is trying to decide what's best for him and his daughters ... hope it works out ok for him 

https://youtube.com/@rickyisaan?si=11MdpB747BQ7KtWY

[forcebwithu]

5 hours ago, Stillearly said:

This one's sad , a young Aussie guy , Ricky in Issan , living up country with his wife and newborn twin daughters, he wife died a couple of weeks ago from dengue... now he is trying to decide what's best for him and his daughters ... hope it works out ok for him 

https://youtube.com/@rickyisaan?si=11MdpB747BQ7KtWY

My heart goes out to the guy. Can't begin to imagine the pain and loss he's going through now. RIP to his wife.

[Golfingboy]

11 hours ago, Stillearly said:

This one's sad , a young Aussie guy , Ricky in Issan , living up country with his wife and newborn twin daughters, he wife died a couple of weeks ago from dengue... now he is trying to decide what's best for him and his daughters ... hope it works out ok for him 

https://youtube.com/@rickyisaan?si=11MdpB747BQ7KtWY

tFP, surprised I had not already heard of him. Very sad indeed, especially as he says she was the breadwinner and they were just scraping by in Isaan.....2 month old twins, damn....

I guess dengue can take some people out that quick, had no idea

[Stillearly]

52 minutes ago, Golfingboy said:

tFP, surprised I had not already heard of him. Very sad indeed, especially as he says she was the breadwinner and they were just scraping by in Isaan.....2 month old twins, damn....

I guess dengue can take some people out that quick, had no idea

I've only watched a few videos so far , but looks like she had her own Thai youtube following ( 60,000 subscribers) and sold stuff to her followers through Facebook, she even built the house for them ..

they both had dengue .. and I'm the same , I didn't realise how bad it could be for someone so young .. 😢

 

[KhunDon]

23 hours ago, Stillearly said:

This one's sad , a young Aussie guy , Ricky in Issan , living up country with his wife and newborn twin daughters, he wife died a couple of weeks ago from dengue... now he is trying to decide what's best for him and his daughters ... hope it works out ok for him 

https://youtube.com/@rickyisaan?si=11MdpB747BQ7KtWY

So, so sad and she doesn’t seem to have been very old. I was reading up on what vaccines are available for this and there’s a couple in trials from 2017 in India that show reasonably good responses in 2-45 year olds, especially if they are seropositive (have had mild Dengue fever before) before they receive the vaccine. 
Not sure if that would have saved her or not, as she seemed to have gone to stage 3 very quickly and required multiple attempts to resuscitate her, to no avail. 
At least he has his mother there as it seems his in-laws are poorly with the father in law 
terminally ill and mother in law sick in hospital as well. 
I wish him and his twins all the luck in what ever he decides to do in the future. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by KhunDon

[Aqualung]

17 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

My heart goes out to the guy. Can't begin to imagine the pain and loss he's going through now. RIP to his wife.

I stumbled across his video regarding the passing of his young wife. 

Awful situation to be in. Early days yet as what he should do regarding the 2 babies. 

For me, and me only I would with the blessings of the Thai family involved, return to his own country with them. 

I really can't see how he could sustain being a father figure to them otherwise. That said, I don't know his financial circumstances. 

Tough times and decisions ahead. 

 

 

[Stillearly]

I think he will try to stay , at least the first few years ..

there's an income to be had via utube and any other SM apps ...

 

I wish him well , although it's not the type of channel that will attract me 

[KhunDon]

17 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

I think he will try to stay , at least the first few years ..

there's an income to be had via utube and any other SM apps ...

 

I wish him well , although it's not the type of channel that will attract me 

He did mention that he wasn’t making any money from his Vlogg due to the change YouTube has made recently, plus his wife was the breadwinner selling stuff online and her blog if I heard correctly. 
He mentioned that he was hoping to get Australian citizenship for the 2 children so that if he needed he could return to his birthplace to work, using the degree he had.  
If his Thai in-laws are too ill to help care for the children and he can’t make enough money from his online work, then perhaps it’s better to move back too Australia where he has a network of family to help, at least for a few years. 
 

Either way I wish him luck, he’s gonna need it. 
Maybe a Go Fund Me page would help and would allow him to stay. I’ve seen some requests on there for money for much less deserving people.