COVID 19 GLOBAL

[Bazle]

^^^

"As far as I am aware, it has never been the case that Covid vaccination stops you contracting the virus, rather than it helps the body fight against the symptoms." 

Not so. At the beginning we were told it would stop infection. In fact, this is the line Health Minister Anutin is still pushing in Thailand. 

"That said, it is difficult to argue, that vaccines have not saved millions of lived worldwide. Of course I am.also aware, like with most vaccines generally, that there can be side effects in a small percentage of recipients." 

It could be argued that Western countries are suffering from as yet unexplained excess deaths. African countries which were mainly not vaccinated were not decimated by Covid as we were told they would be.

"No doubt when or if we are finally over Covid and its mutations, that there will be more research and of course major enquiries, reports and recommendations but in my opinion, it is still too early." 

Do you really expect that government enquiries will tell us the truth? 

[fygjam]

 

[Nightcrawler]

21 minutes ago, Bazle said:

^^^

"As far as I am aware, it has never been the case that Covid vaccination stops you contracting the virus, rather than it helps the body fight against the symptoms." 

Not so. At the beginning we were told it would stop infection. In fact, this is the line Health Minister Anutin is still pushing in Thailand. 

"That said, it is difficult to argue, that vaccines have not saved millions of lived worldwide. Of course I am.also aware, like with most vaccines generally, that there can be side effects in a small percentage of recipients." 

It could be argued that Western countries are suffering from as yet unexplained excess deaths. African countries which were mainly not vaccinated were not decimated by Covid as we were told they would be.

"No doubt when or if we are finally over Covid and its mutations, that there will be more research and of course major enquiries, reports and recommendations but in my opinion, it is still too early." 

Do you really expect that government enquiries will tell us the truth? 

That depends what the Truth is . 

Conspiracy theories don't tell us the Truth any more than the Media or governments. 

Often, the Truth, is what people want to believe. 

I am under the impression that vaccines would reduce death and  hospitalizations. The vaccines have had to play catch up, and it would be impossible to claim that each booster would be totally effective for All future mutations  of the Virus but that is an issue for current and future research.   

I have to wonder what may have happened if governments had sat on their hands and done nothing?

As it stands at the moment, in UK, NO.citizen is forced to be vaccinated and there are longer restrictions on the unvaccinated  

The big question if course, is .......

What is more likely ?

- Death or lllnest cause by the Covid virus or

- Death or illness caused by Covid Vacci action?

The answer is obvious as in UK, 75% of the population have been fully  vaccinated. How many have died or become ill as a result of receiving vaccination? 

It doesn't mean that there are NO risks associated with the vaccine, it means that the benefits outweigh them  

If the claim that Vaccines are useless and unneccessay were to be true, then a far wider and extensive study/studies would need to take place. 

The way that I personally look at it, is all about RISK or what is perceived as a risk. I like many others are at a higher risk than others of dying or becoming severely ill from Covid infection and may have weaker immune system  or underlying conditions which could make Covid infection more serious. 

So I decided to have the 4th jab.

Others may feel that due to the current  Virus symptoms becoming milder, that they are not so concerned. 

Influenza is at a peak right now, with hospital admissions dangerously high.  I am glad that I had my annual Flu jab. But there are all sorts of other respiratory viruses lurking about that a thought to be Flu but are not, or thought to be Covid, but are not  

My overall opinion is that to encourage people NOT to be vaccinated is more dangerous, than encouraging them to be vaccinated 

This goes way back to the Antivax brigade 2 years ago. There main argument then was about discrimination and freedom of choice with no clear evidence that the vaccines contained microchips or were designed to contrlol us all and create the great global reset etc etc

Now, those arguments have shifted having been found not to be true.

 Just as you may consider that Governments may not tell the whole ruth, one must also consider that fringe researchers may also not be telling the whole truth. Which takes us back to the fundamental issue that we believe what we want to believe based on that which think makes most reasonable sense.  However it doesn't always may us right or wrong, because we depend on others to supply information.

 

 

 

[fygjam]

11 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

I am under the impression that vaccines would reduce death and  hospitalizations.

The yardstick set by the US FDA and followed by most western countries for a vaccine was 50% effective in preventing severe disease and/or death.

 

[roomark]

On 1/1/2023 at 1:21 PM, Nightcrawler said:

Thinking back to not so.long ago, many visitors were put in  7 or 10 days quarantine hotels  and released after a negative Covid test. Plus having to show a vaccination pass and Covid insurance

Why can't they do the same for the Chinese? I am sure there would be lots of money to be made out of it, whilst going some way to stop  the virus entering the country in large numbers

What bothers me is arriving at Swampy with queues of infected Chinese tourists at immigration and security, spreading the virus. 

It's all about numbers in the end and if there is a major surge of Covid carrying tourists then it won't take long before another pandemic. 

That of course should apply to all countries.  

It is one thing for the Chinese to Lift lockdown In certain provinces but another to allow travel and for other countries to allow infected travellers to.enter their borders without screening  or vaccination proof. And also, as pointed out earlier, vaccination does not necessarily stop carriers of C19  

As said in this Topic already, as a result, we too could end up facing knock on restrictions again. 

 

 

Doesn't stop the virus entering Thailand.

I was there last December and January and never had Covid in my life , but caught it in Thailand.

All this bringing testing back is a load of bollox , the things iv done this year iv been to half a dozen concerts with 50 to 100k people there , football games been in packed boozers all over U.K .

I wanna live my life again without all that shit I'm perfectly fine without all the testing.

Have we learnt nothing 

I did have 3 jabs , but won't have anymore I have mates who didn't ever have it and they are all still alive.

People die everyday...

That's life

State of the world and all the debt since covid f**k going backwards

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by roomark

[lazarus]

In the end -- avoiding Covid, or not -- all comes down to personal responsibility...

> what is your perceived risk based on scientific medical facts? Not anectodical information or pseudoscience.

> do you care about your health and the health of others?

> do you think you can contract Covid, survive and live your best life afterwards (e.g., long Covid)? Maybe you already have...

> do you care enough to continue to stay informed and do right for yourself and others?

. . .

Knock on wood...I have not been sick...even a cold...since months prior to Covid starting in the US. It is the longest period in my entire life w/o illness. I've had 4x Covid Moderna vax & annual flu vax. I am also in a high risk group for serious Covid infection. Other than not hopping on a plane to go somewhere (not because of Covid) and wearing a N94 mask when shopping my life is normal.

In the end it's all about personal responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nightcrawler]

16 minutes ago, roomark said:

Doesn't stop the virus entering Thailand.

I was there last December and January and never had Covid in my life , but caught it in Thailand.

All this bringing testing back is a load of bollox , the things iv done this year iv been to half a dozen concerts with 50 to 100k people there , football games been in packed boozers all over U.K .

I wanna live my life again without all that shit I'm perfectly fine without all the testing.

Have we learnt nothing 

I did have 3 jabs , but won't have anymore I have mates who didn't ever have it and they are all still alive.

People die everyday...

That's life

State of the world and all the debt since covid f**k going backwards

 

That may well be and most of us here are still alive. But the point I was making is that if there is a dramatic surge in cases (in Thailand as an example) as a result of more infected people (from China, especially, in millions as predicted in 2023) then that will.filter into the Thai population or not. We don't know for sure yet as its not happened but we do know that it is more than possible  Then when or if it is too late, the government may  do a U turn which will then affect all visitors with the restrictions back in place as they were during the height of Covid. 

Whilst Thailand may benefit financially from a rush of Chinese tourists, in certain areas it could push their R rate sky high again. 

It seems sensible to me to at least only allow negative tested Chinese visitors in whilst there is still a Pandemic in China with an estimated 600 mlion cases that we know of.  This would be done at the port they intend to travel from before even boarding a plane. Already this has been adopted recently buy many major countries including UK  

Restrictions were lifted a while back due to Covid numbers falling in most countries and with the less severe Omicron variant emerging. 

Only time will tell, as  one of us will play a part in decisions made  

All that said, I think that there will soon be a more efficient and instant test available, and is being developed as we speak. 

Look how fast C19 spread in 2019 in a matter of weeks and many through air travel spreading it around the world. We weren't prepared for it . 

We are now  

Hope you are right tho, as we all want to get on with our lives. 

So do the Chinese, no doubt, its been bleak for them under lock down for so long. But the difference being is that C19 is still a Pandemic in China and the Chinese government fears losing public  support and lifted lockdown. They don't really know how to handle it. 

For example. I would dread standing in a long immigration queue at Swampy surrounded by untested Chinese visitors, meaning that I could get Covid and ruin my first week in Thailand. Selfish I know, but I think many others might feel the same.  Those coming in carrying the virus, won't give a shit about who they give it to, for sure 

[Nightcrawler]

22 minutes ago, lazarus said:

In the end -- avoiding Covid, or not -- all comes down to personal responsibility...

> what is your perceived risk based on scientific medical facts? Not anectodical information or pseudoscience.

> do you care about your health and the health of others?

> do you think you can contract Covid, survive and live your best life afterwards (e.g., long Covid)? Maybe you already have...

> do you care enough to continue to stay informed and do right for yourself and others?

. . .

Knock on wood...I have not been sick...even a cold...since months prior to Covid starting in the US. It is the longest period in my entire life w/o illness. I've had 4x Covid Moderna vax & annual flu vax. I am also in a high risk group for serious Covid infection. Other than not hopping on a plane to go somewhere (not because of Covid) and wearing a N94 mask when shopping my life is normal.

In the end it's all about personal responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's about Social Responsibility but unfortunately we all have different levels or ideas about what that means. It's one thing to responsible to ourselves and our own personal welfare, but when it comes to the welfare of others can be a different story altogether 

Here is a dilemma 

A general question for everyone 

"Let's say you were booked to y on a commercial airline to visit another country for a holiday and your ticket was non refundable. 

2 days before flying, you contract the Covid virus and test positive for Covid"

A. Do you cancel your flight knowing that you might infect other passengers and people in the country you are visiting or try and change your departure and return dates ?

B. You go ahead with the flight and wear a face mask during and after the journey until you get a negative test result?

C. You go ahead with your flight,  ot bother with a face covering, carry on as normal and hope you start feeling better in a few days after arrival ?

[roomark]

20 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

I think it's about Social Responsibility but unfortunately we all have different levels or ideas about what that means. It's one thing to responsible to ourselves and our own personal welfare, but when it comes to the welfare of others can be a different story altogether 

Here is a dilemma 

A general question for everyone 

"Let's say you were booked to y on a commercial airline to visit another country for a holiday and your ticket was non refundable. 

2 days before flying, you contract the Covid virus and test positive for Covid"

A. Do you cancel your flight knowing that you might infect other passengers and people in the country you are visiting or try and change your departure and return dates ?

B. You go ahead with the flight and wear a face mask during and after the journey until you get a negative test result?

C. You go ahead with your flight,  ot bother with a face covering, carry on as normal and hope you start feeling better in a few days after arrival ?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2476069/proof-of-covid-jabs-for-all-visitors-revived#lcj6yzjmn3jdxyy63q

 

C for me 

Covid is everywhere .

 

Edit maybe B it's a hard one, but people are going to work with it everyday in U.K and no one cares anymore , because no one tests.

If I had a mate say who turned up at work or even to meet me at the pub or whatever and said he had covid it wouldn't bother me anymore I'd crack on and do what we were doing.

Edited January 5, 2023 by roomark

[Nightcrawler]

42 minutes ago, roomark said:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2476069/proof-of-covid-jabs-for-all-visitors-revived#lcj6yzjmn3jdxyy63q

 

C for me 

Covid is everywhere .

 

Edit maybe B it's a hard one, but people are going to work with it everyday in U.K and no one cares anymore , because no one tests.

If I had a mate say who turned up at work or even to meet me at the pub or whatever and said he had covid it wouldn't bother me anymore I'd crack on and do what we were doing.

Thanks for the link. Had to read the para on insurance, twice. It only applies if travelling on from Thailand. Hope no one gets caught out at the airport they are travelling from,l in next couple of weeks regarding proof of vaccinaction again from 7th Jan. I printed off mine last week  

 

[roomark]

1 hour ago, Nightcrawler said:

Thanks for the link. Had to read the para on insurance, twice. It only applies if travelling on from Thailand. Hope no one gets caught out at the airport they are travelling from,l in next couple of weeks regarding proof of vaccinaction again from 7th Jan. I printed off mine last week  

 

It says you need proof of two jabs (which was the case last year when I went)

My last (3rd) jab was Nov 2021 so does that make it invalid now? I've no idea , but they are still showing on the NHS App.

 

[Nightcrawler]

3 hours ago, roomark said:

It says you need proof of two jabs (which was the case last year when I went)

My last (3rd) jab was Nov 2021 so does that make it invalid now? I've no idea , but they are still showing on the NHS I

I doubt it matters. The dates are not important and no time frame is stipulated as far as I can see  

When I flew in September of 2022  the EVA check in member of staff took a cursory look lasting all of 2 seconds. 

[KhunDon]

2 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

I think it's about Social Responsibility but unfortunately we all have different levels or ideas about what that means. It's one thing to responsible to ourselves and our own personal welfare, but when it comes to the welfare of others can be a different story altogether 

Here is a dilemma 

A general question for everyone 

"Let's say you were booked to y on a commercial airline to visit another country for a holiday and your ticket was non refundable. 

2 days before flying, you contract the Covid virus and test positive for Covid"

A. Do you cancel your flight knowing that you might infect other passengers and people in the country you are visiting or try and change your departure and return dates ?

B. You go ahead with the flight and wear a face mask during and after the journey until you get a negative test result?

C. You go ahead with your flight,  ot bother with a face covering, carry on as normal and hope you start feeling better in a few days after arrival ?

My son is booked to go on a school holiday trip to France, not by plane, but by coach. 
He is required to have either a Vaccination or a negative LFT 24 Hrs prior to getting on the coach.
I’ve discussed with him what if the LFT test is positive, should we tell the school, which would mean he loses his holiday and the £600.  Bearing in mind he’s had Covid twice in the past with virtually no symptoms. 

He was adamant he would cancel his holiday and lose the money, his reasoning was simple.  

“Dad, all my friends will be on the coach, I wouldn’t want to be responsible for making any of my friends ill”. 
 

He’s 12  😉

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by KhunDon

[lazarus]

2 hours ago, Nightcrawler said:

I think it's about Social Responsibility but unfortunately we all have different levels or ideas about what that means. It's one thing to responsible to ourselves and our own personal welfare, but when it comes to the welfare of others can be a different story altogether 

Yeah, lots of people with the IGMTHWU gene. 👹

.

.

.

.

.

.

I got mine the hell with you.

. . .

 

[Zeb]

Thailand brings back proof of Covid vaccination requirement for travellers

The move follows news that China will relax travel restrictions from Sunday 8 January 

Thailand is bringing back rules requiring proof of Covid vaccination for travellers entering the country.

The move follows the news that China will relax its travel restrictions from 8 January, meaning inbound travellers will no longer be required to quarantine.

As shared by the Bangkok Post, Public Health Minister Anutin Charnviraku said: “New measures are necessary because Thailand is a major destination for travellers from many countries including China but the measures must be non-discriminatory.”

“The principle is there will not be any discrimination against a particular country because Covid-19 is spreading in all countries and the strains are similar,” he added.

The decision to reintroduce the requirement was made on Thursday 5 January, after a meeting between officials including representatives from the ministries of Public Health, Transport, Foreign Affairs and Tourism and Sports.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/thailand-covid-vaccination-proof-requirement-travellers-b2256667.html

[Nightcrawler]

1 hour ago, Zeb said:

Thailand brings back proof of Covid vaccination requirement for travellers

The move follows news that China will relax travel restrictions from Sunday 8 January 

Thailand is bringing back rules requiring proof of Covid vaccination for travellers entering the country.

The move follows the news that China will relax its travel restrictions from 8 January, meaning inbound travellers will no longer be required to quarantine.

As shared by the Bangkok Post, Pub4lic Health Minister Anutin Charnviraku said: “New measures are necessary because Thailand is a major destination for travellers from many countries including China but the measures must be non-discriminatory.”

“The principle is there will not be any discrimination against a particular country because Covid-19 is spreading in all countries and the strains are similar,” he added.

The decision to reintroduce the requirement was made on Thursday 5 January, after a meeting between officials including representatives from the ministries of Public Health, Transport, Foreign Affairs and Tourism and Sports.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/thailand-covid-vaccination-proof-requirement-travellers-b2256667.html

Thanks for the link

I think the Health Minister has got this all wrong.  I think that they do need to discrimate, not on any human rights basis but simply because of the shear scale of Covid infections in China (estimated at over 600 million, although they seem to have stopped testing ) and the health of the Nation  

If it were not for China relaxing travel, then visitors from other countries would still not be required to show proof of vaccination before flying. Whilst in most cases it is probably unlikely to affect travel at the moment (unless you are unvaccinated a d have booked a flight), what comes next? 

If cases in Thailand start to shoot up, then restrictictions will start all over again  

This is all about Tourist income from China and less  to do with the health of the Nation, in my opinion. 

Fortunately, there won't be a sudden influx of Chinese visitors, once airlines start flying them again, and tour operators start making bookings, but within a couple of months there will be hundreds of thousands of Chinese visitors entering the Kingdom untested under the proposed  scheme. 

I feel concerned  because it makes what many of us had to go through, including staying in hotels to isolate for a week or 10 days, seem worthless and pointless. 

I really hope that this decision doesn't go pear shaped for everyone's sake. 

Surely at this stage it would be prudent  to take a tough approach to Chinese visitors with a view to monitor the situation for the next 2 months and then perhaps relax the conditions of entry if cases remain stable and hospitals are not becoming over run. 

Most major countries have decided to enforce  covid testing for Chinese visitors based on practicality and the care of duty to their own citizens, and not about income. 

I realise that these discussions are in the Global non Thailand section topic and we may consider splitting some recent  posts into the Covid Thailand topic. But that's just a technical issue. 

 

[forcebwithu]

Regarding moving posts into the more appropriate of the two topics on Covid. My suggestion would be to keep the posts here and edit the topic title to remove "(non-Thailand) Posts". Makes it easier on the mods not having to police and move what would otherwise be OT posts.

[Glasseye]

10 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

Regarding moving posts into the more appropriate of the two topics on Covid. My suggestion would be to keep the posts here and edit the topic title to remove "(non-Thailand) Posts". Makes it easier on the mods not having to police and move what would otherwise be OT posts.

👍

[lazarus]

🌞

[fforest]

If the Chinese are so disease ridden they should not be let in at all....

But I am certain they have no more or less disease than anyone else...

So this looks like someone just wants to crank the covid hysteria back up again, just because they can.....

Things have been going just fine without the covid insanity...

 

[Stillearly]

@Nightcrawler So has the Thailand Covid thread been closed now ... does that mean any serious questions about Covid affecting out travel will be mixed up with the conspiracy bollocks ? 

[fforest]

5 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

@Nightcrawler So has the Thailand Covid thread been closed now ... does that mean any serious questions about Covid affecting out travel will be mixed up with the conspiracy bollocks ? 

I have not seen any conspiracy bollocks...

[Nightcrawler]

Just now, Stillearly said:

@Nightcrawler So has the Thailand Covid thread been closed now ... does that mean any serious questions about Covid affecting out travel will be mixed up with the conspiracy bollocks ? 

Absolutely not. No Covid topics have been closed  just the title of this one.  We can use either. 

 

[Stillearly]

2 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

Absolutely not. No Covid topics have been closed  just the title of this one.  We can use either. 

 

I was searching, couldn't find it ... only this one came up ? 

[Nightcrawler]

12 minutes ago, fforest said:

If the Chinese are so disease ridden they should not be let in at all....

But I am certain they have no more or less disease than anyone else...

So this looks like someone just wants to crank the covid hysteria back up again, just because they can.....

Things have been going just fine without the covid insanity...

 

Who did you have in mind as that someone?