COVID 19 GLOBAL

[dcfc2007]

2 minutes ago, Kathmandu said:

See this is the most Salient point in this whole debate and everyone just blows it off. It's called a nouveau virus for a good reason, because we know f**k all about it. 

Here in the USA we just never got the testing thing right, so were forced into a shelter in place. In my county of 500,000 we finally received tests, but we had no swabs to conduct the tests. Pathetic.

Can't hide from this forever. Even the WHO are now saying we are going to have to live with the Coronavirus for years to come.

[fygjam]

Bat soup flu might be off the menu.

Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

Officials in the country pointed to a wet market as the supposed ground zero of the outbreak — but sources told Fox the market never sold bats. It was likely to deflect blame from the laboratories in Wuhan, sources told Fox.

 

[tommy dee]

1 hour ago, fygjam said:

Bat soup flu might be off the menu.

Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

Officials in the country pointed to a wet market as the supposed ground zero of the outbreak — but sources told Fox the market never sold bats. It was likely to deflect blame from the laboratories in Wuhan, sources told Fox.

 

too much proof, including videos that they most certainly did sell bats I am afraid

[KWA]

13 hours ago, KhunDon said:

I think she was more of a whistler, especially after a love bite.

There's an old joke about that - something along the lines of "she farted and flew out the window".

[Lemondropkid]

Very interested to read America's guidelines on how they will have a phased approach to coming out of lockdown- an excellent example of transparency. Official procedure below

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6840714/Guidelines.pdf

So coming out of lockdown, will look like Phase II.

Feel the UK Government should be telling people what Phase II might look like.

I take the point that it is impossible to say when we will come out of lockdown, as that depends on the numbers but we should be able to have some open, transparent discussion on what it might involve.

I don't have any trust in Dominic Raab, and feel he is just stone walling. There is nothing to stop us discussing what coming out of lockdown would look like e.g social distancing stays in place, non-essential trips are allowed, primary schools can open, care homes remain closed to visits e.t.c

God forbid it's making me wish the UK Parliament was back to discuss this.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Lemondropkid

[Lirchenfeld]

Jobs with close physical contact are reopening in Denmark from monday 20th. This includes dentists, hairdressers, driving schools, massage shops, tattoo artists, physio therapists, and others (presumably also brothels).

[Horizondave]

13 hours ago, dcfc2007 said:

Absolute farce of a country.

😂

On the surface it looks ludicrous but there is more to the story that the sensationalist headline.

They interviewed the chair of the fruit pickers association who confirmed that these are contractors who would normally arrive at this time, they had asked the local communities for help but couldn't fill all the slots plus many of these workers had been coming here for 6 years.

I suppose the only comment he made that might surprise some is that these Romanians are also skilled workers doing a job which requires hard work, that might put a few Brits off.....

Edited April 17, 2020 by Horizondave

[forcebwithu]

Possible good news on a drug to treat the China virus.

Report: Covid-19 patients recovering quickly after getting experimental drug remdesivir

Covid-19 patients who are getting an experimental drug called remdesivir have been recovering quickly, with most going home in days, STAT News reported Thursday after it obtained a video of a conversation about the trial.

The patients taking part in a clinical trial of the drug have all had severe respiratory symptoms and fever, but were able to leave the hospital after less than a week of treatment, STAT quoted the doctor leading the trial as saying.

"The best news is that most of our patients have already been discharged, which is great. We've only had two patients perish," Dr. Kathleen Mullane, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Chicago who is leading the clinical trial, said in the video.
...

[dcfc2007]

6 minutes ago, Horizondave said:

On the surface it looks ludicrous but there is more to the story that the sensationalist headline.

They interviewed the chair of the fruit pickers association who confirmed that these are contractors who would normally arrive at this time, they had asked the local communities for help but couldn't not fill all the slots plus many of these workers had been coming here for 6 years.

I suppose the only comment he made that might surprise some is that these Romanians are also skilled workers doing a job which requires hard work, that might put a few Brits off.....

The problem is Dave these companies prefer cheap imported labour. They treat them like dirt, pay them poorly, and threaten to leave them high and dry at the first sign of trouble. Do we have some lazy layabouts in this country? Of course.

But I don't buy this myth that immigrants only do the jobs the lazy Brits don't want to do. If these employers paid proper wages they would have no trouble finding Brits for the jobs.

[Horizondave]

8 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

The problem is Dave these companies prefer cheap imported labour. They treat them like dirt, pay them poorly, and threaten to leave them high and dry at the first sign of trouble. Do we have some lazy layabouts in this country? Of course.

But I don't buy this myth that immigrants only do the jobs the lazy Brits don't want to do. If these employers paid proper wages they would have no trouble finding Brits for the jobs.

This is the British way of life mate, been like this for years. It's why we are a multi cultural society, not just Romanians, we have plenty of immigrants coming in to do jobs Brits don't want or aren't qualified for. 

We also actively go out to the Philippines to employ nurses and what state would the NHS be in if we relied on British workers only.

Is it the sign of a good society or a bad one, plenty of conversations about that subject could fill the pages of this forum.

 

[dcfc2007]

1 minute ago, Horizondave said:

This is the British way of life mate, been like this for years. It's why we are a multi cultural society, not just Romanians, we have plenty of immigrants coming in to do jobs Brits don't want or aren't qualified for. 

We also actively go out to the Philippines to employ nurses and what state would the NHS be in if we relied on British workers only.

Is it the sign of a good society or a bad one, plenty of conversations about that subject could fill the pages of this forum.

 

I disagree tbh.

The reason why we have relied on foreigners to help run the NHS is because the poverty wages they pay.

They also cut the training bursaries. Brits don't want to work for pathetic salaries, why should they?

It's a myth trotted out by big businesses that want to keep wages and conditions depressed.

Just like when they claimed raising the national minimum wage would cost jobs, never happened.

[Horizondave]

3 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

I disagree tbh.

The reason why we have relied on foreigners to help run the NHS is because the poverty wages they pay.

They also cut the training bursaries. Brits don't want to work for pathetic salaries, why should they?

It's a myth trotted out by big businesses that want to keep wages and conditions depressed.

Just like when they claimed raising the national minimum wage would cost jobs, never happened.

I would disagree with you on the NHS as immigrants have been filling vacancies for the last 60 years or so even when it was a 'respected' profession similar to teaching and wages were comparable long before it fell well behind in the salary stakes.

Still I will back off here as this again is one of those emotive subjects that serve no purpose in this thread and just confirms an array of differing views.

 

[Ivan the terrible]

8 hours ago, fygjam said:

Bat soup flu might be off the menu.

Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

Officials in the country pointed to a wet market as the supposed ground zero of the outbreak — but sources told Fox the market never sold bats. It was likely to deflect blame from the laboratories in Wuhan, sources told Fox.

 

Bet they sold Pangolins though ...there is likely to be an intermeadiate vector 

[nampla69]

Hope old Thai Spice is alright...... just reported !! Be careful mon brave........

Indonesia becomes south-east Asian country with most infections

Indonesia has reported 407 new coronavirus cases, taking the total number of cases to 5,923 and surpassing the Philippines as the country with the highest number of infections in south-east Asia.

The health ministry official Achmad Yurianto also reported 24 new deaths attributed to the disease, taking the total to 420, and said Indonesia had performed 42,000 tests for the virus.

CNN Indonesia has been streaming the briefing here.

Indonesia’s government has been accused of failing to act quickly, after initially downplaying the threat of the virus in the country. It wasn’t until 2 March that a first case was confirmed in Indonesia, prompting fears that the virus may have been left to spread, especially in the country’s densely populated capital.

[Krapow]

1 hour ago, Horizondave said:

This is the British way of life mate, been like this for years. It's why we are a multi cultural society, not just Romanians, we have plenty of immigrants coming in to do jobs Brits don't want or aren't qualified for. 

Not just British. 

When I was younger I lived and worked all over Europe doing season work the locals wouldn't do, whether it be working in the bulb factories in the Netherlands, working the docks in Germany, picking peas in Denmark etc etc. The basic money was so/so, not great, but they all had a bonus scheme which seen you make decent money if you worked hard. We all made good money, then when the season finished we had enough to go live in Goa or Southern Spain, or South Africa region or wherever for a few months and travel around more. Then back for when the season work started again. Was great times, the rave scene was in full flow, lived and partied with the New Age Travellers, Spiral Tribe etc, huge outdoor techno festivals. Can't remember much about it all, but know it was great times 😵

The locals wouldn't do the work, much like the UK. As said, it was decent money if you worked hard. 

To me, this is another issue where the Government can't win. They can't get enough UK people to do it, the farmers are screaming at them to let them bring in the foreign workers, that the crops will not get picked, rot, be ruined, farm businesses fail, huge price increases as fruit and veg will have to be imported then. So allow people in to save the harvest, have the Daily Mail etc screaming at them. No win situation.

Anyway, as you, detracting from the original thread subject, apologies for the continuing TF.

[Ivan the terrible]

44 minutes ago, nampla69 said:

Hope old Thai Spice is alright...... just reported !! Be careful mon brave........

Indonesia becomes south-east Asian country with most infections

Indonesia has reported 407 new coronavirus cases, taking the total number of cases to 5,923 and surpassing the Philippines as the country with the highest number of infections in south-east Asia.

The health ministry official Achmad Yurianto also reported 24 new deaths attributed to the disease, taking the total to 420, and said Indonesia had performed 42,000 tests for the virus.

CNN Indonesia has been streaming the briefing here.

Indonesia’s government has been accused of failing to act quickly, after initially downplaying the threat of the virus in the country. It wasn’t until 2 March that a first case was confirmed in Indonesia, prompting fears that the virus may have been left to spread, especially in the country’s densely populated capital.

multiply those numbers by 20x to get close to real life

[nampla69]

2 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

multiply those numbers by 20x to get close to real life

I am still amazed at how low the numbers are in India, Nigeria, Philippines, Sudan, Mexico etc etc

All countries with high population densities ........ weird !!!

[Ivan the terrible]

i dread to think what the real numbers in India are now

[Ivan the terrible]

Just now, nampla69 said:

I am still amazed at how low the numbers are in India, Nigeria, Philippines, Sudan, Mexico etc etc

All countries with high population densities ........ weird !!!

x post mate ...multiply them all by at least 20

i reckon the global total is close to 10 million and rising rapidly in the developing world

Even China despite their 50% increase in recorded numbers today are falsifying by at least 5x imo

[dcfc2007]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783?fbclid=IwAR2yfBZAlXtdKXsA2LprA9V5gV3uIfyhZTbFHWc78xIgqMwc9TR8-P4N8cw#share-tools

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems.

The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness.

On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions.

 

There you have it in black and white from the 'experts' themselves. The overwhelming majority of those who have died with coronavirus, would have died anyway. Yes of course it is terrible, but it's absoultely absurd to crash an entire economy, bankrupt businesses, push millions into unemployment and put an entire nation under house arrest to try and save the lives of people who were almost certainly going to do within a short period of time anyhow.

[Ivan the terrible]

1 minute ago, dcfc2007 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783?fbclid=IwAR2yfBZAlXtdKXsA2LprA9V5gV3uIfyhZTbFHWc78xIgqMwc9TR8-P4N8cw#share-tools

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems.

The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness.

On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions.

 

There you have it in black and white from the 'experts' themselves. The overwhelming majority of those who have died with coronavirus, would have died anyway. Yes of course it is terrible, but it's absoultely absurd to crash an entire economy, bankrupt businesses, push millions into unemployment and put an entire nation under house arrest to try and save the lives of people who were almost certainly going to do within a short period of time anyhow.

UK deaths expected to exceed 40,000..at least with lockdown  and ...without lockdown...quadruple it and some...so you would accept 160-200,00 deaths when a lesser number albeit stlil horrific ,is achievable ?

Surely that isnt who we are 

[Krapow]

4 minutes ago, dcfc2007 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783?fbclid=IwAR2yfBZAlXtdKXsA2LprA9V5gV3uIfyhZTbFHWc78xIgqMwc9TR8-P4N8cw#share-tools

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems.

The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness.

On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions.

 

There you have it in black and white from the 'experts' themselves. The overwhelming majority of those who have died with coronavirus, would have died anyway. Yes of course it is terrible, but it's absoultely absurd to crash an entire economy, bankrupt businesses, push millions into unemployment and put an entire nation under house arrest to try and save the lives of people who were almost certainly going to do within a short period of time anyhow.

I take daily medication for high pressure and high cholesterol. I even had mild asthma as a child, still get the itchy eyes hayfever which is a bastard.

If I caught and died from Coronavirus I would be classed at having other health issues.

I've been taking the medications for over 10 years, i'd like to think I will have at least another 30 years anyway. 

It's not so black and white.

[dcfc2007]

7 minutes ago, Ivan the terrible said:

UK deaths expected to exceed 40,000..at least with lockdown  and ...without lockdown...quadruple it and some...so you would accept 160-200,00 deaths when a lesser number albeit stlil horrific ,is achievable ?

Surely that isnt who we are 

The 200,000 deaths model from Imperial College London grossly over-estimated the number of deaths and infections. That's why the Swedes completely discounted it and struck the right balance between protecting the elderly and vulnerable from physical harm, and protecting the rest of the population from economic chaos, which inevitably leads to physical harm through increased rates of violence, suicide and alcoholism.

Just now, Krapow said:

I take daily medication for high pressure and high cholesterol. I even had mild asthma as a child, still get the itchy eyes hayfever which is a bastard.

If I caught and died from Coronavirus I would be classed at having other health issues.

I've been taking the medications for over 10 years, i'd like to think I will have at least another 30 years anyway. 

It's not so black and white.

Yes, that's why you should be one of the 'vulnerable' people who should be cocooned at home. Nobody is seriously saying lets just carry on as normal, it's about finding the right balance between protecting the 'at risk' groups, and allowing the economy to function is as normal a manner as possible.

The ONS study found they had three or more serious underlying conditions, mostly heart and respiratory problems as well as dementia and other serious illnesses. I know being a Hun is a pretty serious debilitating condition but I don't think it puts you at risk.

 

LOL.  

[forcebwithu]

1 hour ago, Ivan the terrible said:

x post mate ...multiply them all by at least 20

i reckon the global total is close to 10 million and rising rapidly in the developing world

Even China despite their 50% increase in recorded numbers today are falsifying by at least 5x imo

For China it's a lot more than 5x.

Best evidence of that is the US with a quarter of the population is currently reporting 678,210 cases and 34,641 deaths. Whereas China has reported 82,692 cases and 4,632 deaths.

Multiply the US totals by 4 and you get at least 2.7 million cases and 138,564 deaths in China. You'd need to multiply China's reported numbers by 32 for infections and 29 for deaths to be on par with what the US is experiencing.

Fcking criminal how China has, and continues to deceive the world about the China virus.

Edited April 17, 2020 by forcebwithu

[Horizondave]

I think I will wait to see all the reports on the Covid 19 virus of 2019/2020 before I draw any conclusions.  The problem being that a lot of these reports will be written by people who are presently advising their governments and not everybody looks like they are getting it right according to the newspapers and those here.

For me though there are so many variables that so many conclusions are going to be made so who to believe. I personally don't believe one model fits all yet we are now constantly seeing in the news how the UK is getting it wrong and others have got it right and yet we are still in the middle of this pandemic. As I said before everybody was lauding Sweden yet that is seeing an upturn in death rates, too soon to see if their model is the correct one and also their population, density and exposure to travel from China etc may be far less than another country so is it really useful to put Sweden and UK side by side and throw eggs at one or the other.

The nature of Asian countries is to save face so that may be a problem for many when reporting the 'facts'. The figures do look dodgy but that is just stereotyping our view yet their peoples are the ones who will suffer if the figures are under reported or their analysis is based on other criteria.

On this very forum we have posts that belittle some efforts and lauding others yet who is right, who is wrong, probably depends on which side of the political spectrum you fall on, what benefit or disadvantage you gain by decisions made for you rather than by your own will. 

I have to believe that the UK is doing right by those advising it, it is a new virus so limited experience of real diagnosis and cure but we need to follow the advice as I am presently not able to go to another country and abide by their Covid 19 precautions.